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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Ruchy, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. Daidre Augur

    Daidre
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I had a complete playthrough with vanilla range Kineticist and never even noticed that there is possible concentration check on blast. My elements was fire-earth-water and its crazy strong, even comparing to Arcane Trickster in the endgame (really after the Wall and Deadly Earth on lvl 13). Cleaned like 3/4 of the House encounters solo with whole party standing bit behind, needed help only with couple of ambushes.
    Kineticist Knight is pretty lacking comparing to no archetype. His melee AOE has small radius and its difficult to hit more then 2-3 mobs, also pain to use with Gather Power that eats move action. Wall, Deadly Earth and Cloud with empower and maximize all two heads above anything Knight is capable of in DPS department.
     
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  2. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I multied Valerie into KK, she is best tank I had. I don't think you are supposed to build KK as a DPS character.
     
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  3. user Learned

    user
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    Am I the only one who thinks that wild shape has to be ironed out? Only wolf form gets additional speed and some other animal animation (smilo) seem weird without it, the last animal form is only smilodon which doesn't scale, same with elemental forms, so they seem pretty useless at endgame compared to sorcerer's dragonform for example. Wish there was some kind of end-game melee form with bite (so that it also takes advantage of the tripping cloak) and elder elemental forms.
     
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  4. Daidre Augur

    Daidre
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    My main problem with KK tanking is their inability to do any AOO. Couple of patches ago I tried KK Valerie too, and she was not properly profiting from any good teamwork feats. Precise Strike was not working outright, Outflank rarely applied AB bonus and Seize the Moment I've not even got to. For me tank is usually best "activator" for teamwork feats with high crit range weapon and KK was failing it this role, bugs or design I do not know.
    Back then KK was hit pretty hard with movement bug too and my attempts to use Gather Power resulted in some really wonky experience.
     
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  5. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Yeah, I try to equip my melees with 15-20 crit range weapons, minimum 17-20, to enable those sweet extra two-handed Attacks of Opportunity at max BAB. That's not something the KK can really do. Even if he had the KWhip and could do AoOs and help with Flanking&Outflank&Freebooters Bond (+6AB total !), it would still be a 19-20 weapon at best (with Imp. Crit.), so not very good for Seize the Moment&Outflank combos.

    But he may work fine in parties that are not so focused on melee damage - focus on ranged and/or spells.
     
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  6. Incendax Augur

    Incendax
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    Precise Strike only works with physical kinetic blades, which slightly defeats the point. Outflank works with energy blades and is the only offensive one definitely worth taking. The others are mostly just placeholders so other melee can get the benefit. Or you can take a Tactical Leader and skip the issue entirely, which is my recommendation.

    I actually get more value out of Kineticists/Knights being a skill monkey. All those wild talents can be pumped into Familiars, Skill Focus, Skilled Kineticist, Persuasive, and other such things. Or skipping the requirements on Blindfight/Trip so your primary feats can be used for skill monkey business.
     
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  7. hell bovine Arcane

    hell bovine
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    I have a theoretical question: how would Jaethal work as a kineticist? Since she has no constitution.
     
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  8. Incendax Augur

    Incendax
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    I tested this, and she gets a max of 3 Burn points and forever counts as having 0 Constitution regardless if you give her +Constitution or +Charisma items. This includes no bonuses to damage from constitution or charisma. She does take the -HP from those 3 Burn points as a normal Kineticist.

    However, she functions perfectly well as a Dark Kineticist or Psychokineticist.
     
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  9. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I don't really use teamwork feats. Offensive powers of our parties are already good enough. I rather spend extra feats into Iron Will and Greater Iron will. And that +4 works very nicely now in endgame as Valerie has 20+ will save.
    And you don't gather power with KK as you lose extra attacks (also means you attack slower and don't provide flanking bonuses) and you get your defensive fighting bonus later in the round. 3 attacks +1 from haste is better than one empowered attack.
     
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  10. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I guess electric element might be nice for a KK. It goes against Touch AC and with Magnetic Infusion that's -4 AC for enemies he hits (can you afford Burn 2 Infusions as a KK?). Or Synaptic Infusion to Stagger enemies if they fail a Will save. It's not a very good element for traditional Kineticists, as its missing all worthwhile shapes and also offers little in the way of combined blasts.
     
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  11. Daidre Augur

    Daidre
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    Is it even possible to use composites without burn on KK? No gather power because full attack and no (? - no game at hand to check) Composite Specialization.
    So electro + earth for DR + Enveloping Winds indeed looks very nice on tank, no point to worry about composites.
     
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  12. tindrli Arcane

    tindrli
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    is the game still bugged as hell?
     
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  13. user Learned

    user
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    Nope, it's perfectly playable now.
     
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  14. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    Yea I wish I went electro instead of cold, I didn't know that in end game cold is almost useless element. Before end game Cold is good as it is touch attack and you can stagger them if they fail a fort save (stagger makes it so they can only attack once per round, like how Slow spell works). At very high levels you can do a composite melee attack without gather power and it costs 1 burn. Probably not worth is since I rather use burn to buff up my DR.
     
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  15. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Well, Electro with Synaptic Infusion staggers if the enemy fails a Will save, which is a more common weak save among the enemy hordes, I think.
     
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  16. Wolfe Arbiter

    Wolfe
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    As my first playthrough's saves were broken by yesterday's hotfix I started another one to play around with some builds and party compositions. I remember seeing a Sword Saint or Aldori Defender (?) Dex tank build suggested around here but I can't seem to find it at the moment..
     
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  17. razvedchiki Liturgist Sad Loser

    razvedchiki
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    Aldori defender needs a lvl of monk for good ac
     
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  18. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    A sword saint relies on monk moreso :) Preferably Lawful good for +5 AC robes.

    I planned the following build:
    Human Sword Saint. I recommend Scimitars (some good ones and magus specific versions exist), but dueling swords (could possibly skip slashing grace) and bastard swords are also good. Sai would be an interesting choice due to flurry, but not great for crits and spellstrike crits.
    Dump Str, max Dex, high Int, highish Wis, rest Con

    1 W. Finesse & Slashing Grace
    2 TRADITIONAL MONK LEVEL: Bonus feat: Dodge
    3 Crane Style
    4 Magus Arcana: Pick Arcane Accuracy
    5 Outflank
    6 Bonus feat: Arcane Strike
    7 Dazzling Display; Magus Arcana: Pick Enduring Blade
    8
    9 Shatter Defenses
    10
    11 Imp. Crit
    12 Bonus feat: Weapon Spec
    13 Blind Fight; Magus Arcana: Pick Ghost Blade
    14
    15 Greater Weapon Spec.
    16 Magus Arcana: Pick Bane Blade
    17 Critical Focus
    18 Bonus feat: Staggering Critical
    19 Maximize Spell; Magus Arcana: Pick Devoted Blade

    Damage is unimpressive early on, but can be nearly untouchable. Obviously can go nova with Spellstrike and Perfect Strike. Over time the damage bonuses start to add up and has great accuracy to land even later iteratives, particularly with Brilliant Blade and Shatter Defenses. Dazzling Display is only chosen as a prereq. for Shatter Defenses, I assume another dedicated Intimidator in your party, such as Valerie or Jaethal.

    If you use Eldiritch Arcana mod, you'd also want the Intensify Spell metamagic feat early, as that's pretty great for Shocking Grasp.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  19. The Great ThunThun* How DARE you!? Patron

    The Great ThunThun*
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This build is going to suck half the game and them become as good as any of your companions because of the gear.
     
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  20. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    None of my companions could tank anywhere near as good as this char. Highest AC in the party and Mirror Image means he didn't fear wolf packs nor bosses. Keen weapon at level 6 for some nice crit rate early. Early Perfect strike & Spell strike to burst bosses. Sure, he'll really start to shine at level 14, with Int to damage, Brilliant Blade and Shatter Defenses. But he'll be a good tank and boss killer throughout.
     
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  21. The Great ThunThun* How DARE you!? Patron

    The Great ThunThun*
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You are overvaluing AC. This is a noob error for any D&D game mechanic.
     
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  22. VentilatorOfDoom RPG Codex Staff

    VentilatorOfDoom
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    Saves weren't broken. It's the mods you have installed that are causing this. In other words it will likely happen again when they release the next hotfix if you have the same mods installed.

    Best tank has the following properties:
    - DEX based
    - additional stat(s) on AC
    - can equip dodge AC monk robes
    - does have uncanny dodge
    - has high saves
    - has a way to deal with 20ies hitting you no matter what, concealment or ideally mirror image

    sacred fist 1/paladin 2/ knifemaster 4/ vivisectionist 13
    sacred fist 1/paladin 2/edlritch scoundrel (<- doesn't have mutagen but gets wizard spells, so mirror image etc)
    Just 2 examples.

    I guess even pal2/sacred fist x can work although not on unfair because of the lack of spells.

    I didn't bother with Aldori Defender, Sword Saint or Duelist builds but if you can use them and fullfill most of the criteria above you'll be good.
    Dumbass opinions like "you're overvalueing high AC" clearly come from a guy who didn't play the game on a higher difficulty.
    You get hit, you die. That's the reality for most of the game.
    If you enter a room with your "tank" and the room is filled with lvl20 wild hunt mobs with 4 or 5 attacks per round making you eat say 30 attacks per round you will soon discover that mirror image can not replace a proper AC.
    Illusion spells let you avoid 20ies, that's the purpose. The same DnD "experts" will then complain in the next thread how the endgame is "unbeatable" - for them.
     
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  23. VentilatorOfDoom RPG Codex Staff

    VentilatorOfDoom
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    What, you mean Valerie has HIGH AC?
    Stop talking about things about which you know nothing.
    Just play on hard or even better - unfair - and then tell me how great it is to have shit AC.
    I mean seriously was your solution to TANKING right now to hide behind Valerie? Jesus fucking Christ.
     
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  24. VentilatorOfDoom RPG Codex Staff

    VentilatorOfDoom
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    It's enough on normal.

    Kit Walker's guide to tank builds:
    AC is a noob error, ignore it and hide behind Valerie who has a high AC.

    Danke für das wertvolle Gespräch.
     
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  25. Daidre Augur

    Daidre
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It is not like Wild Hunt and other fey in endgame actually care how cool your tank is - most of them are scripted to attack the lowest AC/HP character. Only thing that any amazing tank could achieve on Hard and Unfair without CC/summoning/mega spell damage is being last man standing with the dead party.
     
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