Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Wolfe]

As my first playthrough's saves were broken by yesterday's hotfix I started another one to play around with some builds and party compositions. I remember seeing a Sword Saint or Aldori Defender (?) Dex tank build suggested around here but I can't seem to find it at the moment..

 

[razvedchiki]

Aldori defender needs a lvl of monk for good ac

 

[Haplo]

A sword saint relies on monk moreso Preferably Lawful good for +5 AC robes.

I planned the following build:
Human Sword Saint. I recommend Scimitars (some good ones and magus specific versions exist), but dueling swords (could possibly skip slashing grace) and bastard swords are also good. Sai would be an interesting choice due to flurry, but not great for crits and spellstrike crits.
Dump Str, max Dex, high Int, highish Wis, rest Con

1 W. Finesse & Slashing Grace
2 TRADITIONAL MONK LEVEL: Bonus feat: Dodge
3 Crane Style
4 Magus Arcana: Pick Arcane Accuracy
5 Outflank
6 Bonus feat: Arcane Strike
7 Dazzling Display; Magus Arcana: Pick Enduring Blade
8
9 Shatter Defenses
10
11 Imp. Crit
12 Bonus feat: Weapon Spec
13 Blind Fight; Magus Arcana: Pick Ghost Blade
14
15 Greater Weapon Spec.
16 Magus Arcana: Pick Bane Blade
17 Critical Focus
18 Bonus feat: Staggering Critical
19 Maximize Spell; Magus Arcana: Pick Devoted Blade

Damage is unimpressive early on, but can be nearly untouchable. Obviously can go nova with Spellstrike and Perfect Strike. Over time the damage bonuses start to add up and has great accuracy to land even later iteratives, particularly with Brilliant Blade and Shatter Defenses. Dazzling Display is only chosen as a prereq. for Shatter Defenses, I assume another dedicated Intimidator in your party, such as Valerie or Jaethal.

If you use Eldiritch Arcana mod, you'd also want the Intensify Spell metamagic feat early, as that's pretty great for Shocking Grasp.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

This build is going to suck half the game and them become as good as any of your companions because of the gear.

 

[Haplo]

None of my companions could tank anywhere near as good as this char. Highest AC in the party and Mirror Image means he didn't fear wolf packs nor bosses. Keen weapon at level 6 for some nice crit rate early. Early Perfect strike & Spell strike to burst bosses. Sure, he'll really start to shine at level 14, with Int to damage, Brilliant Blade and Shatter Defenses. But he'll be a good tank and boss killer throughout.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

You are overvaluing AC. This is a noob error for any D&D game mechanic.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

As my first playthrough's saves were broken by yesterday's hotfix I started another one to play around with some builds and party compositions. I remember seeing a Sword Saint or Aldori Defender (?) Dex tank build suggested around here but I can't seem to find it at the moment..

Saves weren't broken. It's the mods you have installed that are causing this. In other words it will likely happen again when they release the next hotfix if you have the same mods installed.

Best tank has the following properties:
- DEX based
- additional stat(s) on AC
- can equip dodge AC monk robes
- does have uncanny dodge
- has high saves
- has a way to deal with 20ies hitting you no matter what, concealment or ideally mirror image

sacred fist 1/paladin 2/ knifemaster 4/ vivisectionist 13
sacred fist 1/paladin 2/edlritch scoundrel (<- doesn't have mutagen but gets wizard spells, so mirror image etc)
Just 2 examples.

I guess even pal2/sacred fist x can work although not on unfair because of the lack of spells.

I didn't bother with Aldori Defender, Sword Saint or Duelist builds but if you can use them and fullfill most of the criteria above you'll be good.
Dumbass opinions like "you're overvalueing high AC" clearly come from a guy who didn't play the game on a higher difficulty.
You get hit, you die. That's the reality for most of the game.
If you enter a room with your "tank" and the room is filled with lvl20 wild hunt mobs with 4 or 5 attacks per round making you eat say 30 attacks per round you will soon discover that mirror image can not replace a proper AC.
Illusion spells let you avoid 20ies, that's the purpose. The same DnD "experts" will then complain in the next thread how the endgame is "unbeatable" - for them.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What, you mean Valerie has HIGH AC?
Stop talking about things about which you know nothing.
Just play on hard or even better - unfair - and then tell me how great it is to have shit AC.
I mean seriously was your solution to TANKING right now to hide behind Valerie? Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

It's enough on normal.

Kit Walker's guide to tank builds:
AC is a noob error, ignore it and hide behind Valerie who has a high AC.

Danke für das wertvolle Gespräch.

 

[Daidre]

It is not like Wild Hunt and other fey in endgame actually care how cool your tank is - most of them are scripted to attack the lowest AC/HP character. Only thing that any amazing tank could achieve on Hard and Unfair without CC/summoning/mega spell damage is being last man standing with the dead party.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

This discussion is about tank builds. Anything worthwhile to add, other than embarassing yourself further?
"Let somebody else tank who has a high AC" isn't a build. That also can't serve as a reason for the idiotic notion that AC doesn't matter.
The solution to

Actually, my suggestion is don't get hit.

- fasten your seat belt, this will come as a shock - is to have a high AC that can't be hit except on a 20, then have a second layer of defense to deal with said 20ies.
This, my friend, is the ultimate solution to exactly that problem - not getting hit.

 

[Wolfe]

I probably phrased it poorly, I know that it was the mod's fault, not blaming Owlcat as it was my choice to use it.

Cheers for the build ideas. Sword Saint sounds pretty similar to what I'm running in my main playthrough, 1 Scaled Fist/8 Magus/4 Dragon Disciple, except that's STR based. ~50-55 AC at level 13 + Mirror Image, Blur and Displacement. Tanks like a boss and can do solid damage as well.

 

[Haplo]

Certainly. It's a bit different angle (crit focus, increased crit multiplier on-demand, int boosts to AC, damage, initiative, crit confirmation) and actually gets the unique weapon enchantments in reasonable time, which can make a large difference (say Brilliant Energy to negate enemy armor and shield or Ghotst Touch vs ghosts).

Also the SS level 19 ability would be nice end game - always roll 20 on initiative and never be caught surprised. Possibly better then Uncanny Dodge. Although it does come very late. Perhaps too late.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is not like Wild Hunt and other fey in endgame actually care how cool your tank is - most of them are scripted to attack the lowest AC/HP character. Only thing that any amazing tank could achieve on Hard and Unfair without CC/summoning/mega spell damage is being last man standing with the dead party.

I didn't notice wild hunt ignoring my tanks and attacking squishies.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

This has probably been covered before, but can anybody provide me some build advice regarding kineticist?

I want to go ranged damage dealer with my kineticist, so I am thinking of going vanilla in favour of the archetypes. Concerning race, it will probably be tiefling or aasimar (for the + to dex & con). For the elements, I am considering going water, earth and fire last.

Any advice or criticism would be appreciated, thanks guys!

 

[Daidre]

If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Human is also nice race, since you get access to Precise Shot at lvl 1. But it is matter of taste.
Worst mistake I have made with mine was Enduring Earth feat. Avoid it like a plague! With it your high level AOE will take eternity to clean off.

 

[Haplo]

Good choice of elements, I think. Daidre offers some very good advice. In any case make sure that Earth is either your primary or second pick. Deadly Earth is just too good to pass on and you want it ASAP - at level 13. You'll melt encounters from that point onward. Before that Wall at level 11.

Only problem is you'll delay your AC boosting Water powers quite a bit, so you'll be quite a glass cannon. Well, try to shield that char with the rest of the party.

Edit: It's good to go for the Bowling Infusion (Earth talents) to have your aoe traps also knock down your enemies. You'd also want the Fury's Fall feat to boost the CMB and Trip and Geater Trip to further boost it, as well as provide additional Attacks of Opportunity for your melees.

Before Deadly Earth, the Eruption (Fire) Infusion should be pretty nice.

 

[ArchAngel]

If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Human is also nice race, since you get access to Precise Shot at lvl 1. But it is matter of taste.
Worst mistake I have made with mine was Enduring Earth feat. Avoid it like a plague! With it your high level AOE will take eternity to clean off.

You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.

 

[Daidre]

You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.

It is exactly what I've been doing. Moving Wall, Deadly Earth and typhoon to the farthest corner after every battle. That makes Enduring Earth damn annoying Feat.
Edit: I also had natural CON 24 and now I think it was a mistake to get it this high. I've barely used my huge burn pool beyong getting to max Overflow bonus (7). And damage bonus almost negligible in 40+d6 blasts. 16-18 with belt bonuses would have been enough. DEX looks more useful now.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You don't need this feat, everything that stands in the AoE will be dead by the end of the spell, there's no need to double the duration.

 

[Incendax]

Enduring Earth makes it easier to set up Kanerah + Kalikke combos, since their effects are counted separately.

If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.

Not to mention Fire + Earth does dramatically more damage than Water + Earth, and there are fewer things in the game immune to fire. Unlike most D&D CRPGs, cold is the most commonly encountered resistance in Kingmaker.

 

[razvedchiki]

is it worth dem monies to get the kinetistic dlc>?

 

[ArchAngel]

is it worth dem monies to get the kinetistic dlc>?

currently it is a p2w dlc.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

 

[Haplo]

Enduring Earth makes it easier to set up Kanerah + Kalikke combos, since their effects are counted separately.

If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.

Not to mention Fire + Earth does dramatically more damage than Water + Earth, and there are fewer things in the game immune to fire. Unlike most D&D CRPGs, cold is the most commonly encountered resistance in Kingmaker.

Not sure if its "dramatically" more. Certainly, magma has access to more damaging infusions, such as burn and enduring fire.
Anyway, Water (physical) or Cold (elemental), make your pick The latter does not mix with Earth btw., so...