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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
None of my companions could tank anywhere near as good as this char. Highest AC in the party and Mirror Image means he didn't fear wolf packs nor bosses. Keen weapon at level 6 for some nice crit rate early. Early Perfect strike & Spell strike to burst bosses. Sure, he'll really start to shine at level 14, with Int to damage, Brilliant Blade and Shatter Defenses. But he'll be a good tank and boss killer throughout.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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As my first playthrough's saves were broken by yesterday's hotfix I started another one to play around with some builds and party compositions. I remember seeing a Sword Saint or Aldori Defender (?) Dex tank build suggested around here but I can't seem to find it at the moment..
Saves weren't broken. It's the mods you have installed that are causing this. In other words it will likely happen again when they release the next hotfix if you have the same mods installed.

Best tank has the following properties:
- DEX based
- additional stat(s) on AC
- can equip dodge AC monk robes
- does have uncanny dodge
- has high saves
- has a way to deal with 20ies hitting you no matter what, concealment or ideally mirror image

sacred fist 1/paladin 2/ knifemaster 4/ vivisectionist 13
sacred fist 1/paladin 2/edlritch scoundrel (<- doesn't have mutagen but gets wizard spells, so mirror image etc)
Just 2 examples.

I guess even pal2/sacred fist x can work although not on unfair because of the lack of spells.

I didn't bother with Aldori Defender, Sword Saint or Duelist builds but if you can use them and fullfill most of the criteria above you'll be good.
Dumbass opinions like "you're overvalueing high AC" clearly come from a guy who didn't play the game on a higher difficulty.
You get hit, you die. That's the reality for most of the game.
If you enter a room with your "tank" and the room is filled with lvl20 wild hunt mobs with 4 or 5 attacks per round making you eat say 30 attacks per round you will soon discover that mirror image can not replace a proper AC.
Illusion spells let you avoid 20ies, that's the purpose. The same DnD "experts" will then complain in the next thread how the endgame is "unbeatable" - for them.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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What, you mean Valerie has HIGH AC?
Stop talking about things about which you know nothing.
Just play on hard or even better - unfair - and then tell me how great it is to have shit AC.
I mean seriously was your solution to TANKING right now to hide behind Valerie? Jesus fucking Christ.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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It's enough on normal.

Kit Walker's guide to tank builds:
AC is a noob error, ignore it and hide behind Valerie who has a high AC.

Danke für das wertvolle Gespräch.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
It is not like Wild Hunt and other fey in endgame actually care how cool your tank is - most of them are scripted to attack the lowest AC/HP character. Only thing that any amazing tank could achieve on Hard and Unfair without CC/summoning/mega spell damage is being last man standing with the dead party.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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This discussion is about tank builds. Anything worthwhile to add, other than embarassing yourself further?
"Let somebody else tank who has a high AC" isn't a build. That also can't serve as a reason for the idiotic notion that AC doesn't matter.
The solution to
Actually, my suggestion is don't get hit.
- fasten your seat belt, this will come as a shock - is to have a high AC that can't be hit except on a 20, then have a second layer of defense to deal with said 20ies.
This, my friend, is the ultimate solution to exactly that problem - not getting hit.
 

Wolfe

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I probably phrased it poorly, I know that it was the mod's fault, not blaming Owlcat as it was my choice to use it.

Cheers for the build ideas. Sword Saint sounds pretty similar to what I'm running in my main playthrough, 1 Scaled Fist/8 Magus/4 Dragon Disciple, except that's STR based. ~50-55 AC at level 13 + Mirror Image, Blur and Displacement. Tanks like a boss and can do solid damage as well.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Certainly. It's a bit different angle (crit focus, increased crit multiplier on-demand, int boosts to AC, damage, initiative, crit confirmation) and actually gets the unique weapon enchantments in reasonable time, which can make a large difference (say Brilliant Energy to negate enemy armor and shield or Ghotst Touch vs ghosts).

Also the SS level 19 ability would be nice end game - always roll 20 on initiative and never be caught surprised. Possibly better then Uncanny Dodge. Although it does come very late. Perhaps too late.
 

ArchAngel

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It is not like Wild Hunt and other fey in endgame actually care how cool your tank is - most of them are scripted to attack the lowest AC/HP character. Only thing that any amazing tank could achieve on Hard and Unfair without CC/summoning/mega spell damage is being last man standing with the dead party.
I didn't notice wild hunt ignoring my tanks and attacking squishies.
 

Billy Pilgrim

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This has probably been covered before, but can anybody provide me some build advice regarding kineticist?

I want to go ranged damage dealer with my kineticist, so I am thinking of going vanilla in favour of the archetypes. Concerning race, it will probably be tiefling or aasimar (for the + to dex & con). For the elements, I am considering going water, earth and fire last.

Any advice or criticism would be appreciated, thanks guys!
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Human is also nice race, since you get access to Precise Shot at lvl 1. But it is matter of taste.
Worst mistake I have made with mine was Enduring Earth feat. Avoid it like a plague! With it your high level AOE will take eternity to clean off.
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Good choice of elements, I think. Daidre offers some very good advice. In any case make sure that Earth is either your primary or second pick. Deadly Earth is just too good to pass on and you want it ASAP - at level 13. You'll melt encounters from that point onward. Before that Wall at level 11.

Only problem is you'll delay your AC boosting Water powers quite a bit, so you'll be quite a glass cannon. Well, try to shield that char with the rest of the party.

Edit: It's good to go for the Bowling Infusion (Earth talents) to have your aoe traps also knock down your enemies. You'd also want the Fury's Fall feat to boost the CMB and Trip and Geater Trip to further boost it, as well as provide additional Attacks of Opportunity for your melees.

Before Deadly Earth, the Eruption (Fire) Infusion should be pretty nice.
 
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ArchAngel

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If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Human is also nice race, since you get access to Precise Shot at lvl 1. But it is matter of taste.
Worst mistake I have made with mine was Enduring Earth feat. Avoid it like a plague! With it your high level AOE will take eternity to clean off.
You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.
It is exactly what I've been doing. Moving Wall, Deadly Earth and typhoon to the farthest corner after every battle. That makes Enduring Earth damn annoying Feat.
Edit: I also had natural CON 24 and now I think it was a mistake to get it this high. I've barely used my huge burn pool beyong getting to max Overflow bonus (7). And damage bonus almost negligible in 40+d6 blasts. 16-18 with belt bonuses would have been enough. DEX looks more useful now.
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

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You don't need this feat, everything that stands in the AoE will be dead by the end of the spell, there's no need to double the duration.
 

Incendax

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Enduring Earth makes it easier to set up Kanerah + Kalikke combos, since their effects are counted separately.
If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Not to mention Fire + Earth does dramatically more damage than Water + Earth, and there are fewer things in the game immune to fire. Unlike most D&D CRPGs, cold is the most commonly encountered resistance in Kingmaker.
 

Billy Pilgrim

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Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Enduring Earth makes it easier to set up Kanerah + Kalikke combos, since their effects are counted separately.
If you want to go water, earth and fire than it will be better go with fire first - it is energy blast and with it you need to hit touch AC only like with alchemist bombs, not full AC like with Earth or Water. Difference is huge and hitting problems are worst at the beginning.
Fire also have Dazzling Display at lvl 2 throgh kineticist bonus feat which is very nice to have so early and kineticist can afford Persuasion.
Not to mention Fire + Earth does dramatically more damage than Water + Earth, and there are fewer things in the game immune to fire. Unlike most D&D CRPGs, cold is the most commonly encountered resistance in Kingmaker.

Not sure if its "dramatically" more. Certainly, magma has access to more damaging infusions, such as burn and enduring fire.
Anyway, Water (physical) or Cold (elemental), make your pick :P The latter does not mix with Earth btw., so...
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

Both ignore the Combat Expertise requirement, which requires 13 INT.
Strength is used in the CMB check (plus Dex, if you have Fury's Fall), but in case of regular Kineticist, its substituted by Con instead (Int for Dark Elementalist and I think Wis for Psycho).
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.
It is exactly what I've been doing. Moving Wall, Deadly Earth and typhoon to the farthest corner after every battle. That makes Enduring Earth damn annoying Feat.
Edit: I also had natural CON 24 and now I think it was a mistake to get it this high. I've barely used my huge burn pool beyong getting to max Overflow bonus (7). And damage bonus almost negligible in 40+d6 blasts. 16-18 with belt bonuses would have been enough. DEX looks more useful now.

High Con should be good for landing save-based Infusion effects... in case you even care about them. I guess death is the ultimate CC.
 

Billy Pilgrim

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Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

Both ignore the Combat Expertise requirement, which requires 13 INT.
Strength is used in the CMB check (plus Dex, if you have Fury's Fall), but in case of regular Kineticist, its substituted by Con instead (Int for Dark Elementalist and I think Wis for Psycho).

That is good to know! So a STR score of 10 should be fine, right? At least so I can lug a couple of things around. And I can keep INT at 10 or 8 (dont need the kineticist to be a skill monkey)
 
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ArchAngel

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Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?
I would go double fire and something else. Double Fire gives you only touch attack composite blast. And one of the fire infusions gives you ability to ignore enemy SR so this attack works against anyone that is not immune to fire.
You don't really want to abuse stuff like Deadly Earth anyways, it will make the game too easy.
 

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