Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

Well, its arguably better, boosting both attack and damage (plus Str checks & Str. based skills) by +1 per level, up to +6 AB & Damage at level 18. It also adds an attack at max BAB (which unfortunately doesn't stack with haste).

 

[ArchAngel]

And after finishing the game with a lvl 19 Paladin I think it is wrong to compare them with Clerics, they should be compared with Fighters and Barbarians. Spellcasting part of paladins sucks a lot and is in no way comparable to what clerics or even inquisitors have to offer.
Their main features are Smite Evil, Lay Hands and Weapon Bond and clerics don't have anything similar (channel energy is not similar to lay hands).

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, its arguably better, boosting both attack and damage (plus Str checks & Str. based skills) by +1 per level, up to +6 AB & Damage at level 18. It also adds an attack at max BAB (which unfortunately doesn't stack with haste).

Of course it is better, it is lvl 4 spell :D
And it lasts 1 round per level where Divine Favor is always just 10 rounds.
But it might not be worth using at lvl 7 when you get it.

 

[Haplo]

I meant arguably better then DnD 3 Divine Power

 

[Jarpie]

Are critical focus and the ring of reckless courage worth using as they give +4 bonus to confirm critical hits? One of the tiefling heritages gives +2 bonus to confirm critical hits, could be very good for eldritch scion.

 

[Haplo]

There's also Adamantine Assasin's Chain with +4 to confirm. But I'm not sure such effects stack.
A Sword Saint adds his Int modifier to crit confirmation (and to AC, initiative, damage).

Regarding racials, I value higher the CMB/CMD bonus or the free bite attack.

 

[Tyroth Gideon]

I recently started playing Pathfinder Kingmaker. I have limited experience with Tabletop/PnP rpgs, but quite like the setting of Pathfinder and have listened to a podcast or two of people playing.

This (unfortunately) seems to be the most viable place to ask/speak of this so here goes.

I like the Aldori defender as a class concept, though not perfect it is fun.

Currently I have a level 3/4 aldori defender, with 2 levels Defender and two rogue. Went rogue for the evasion and wep finesse for free. Had thought of dipping into scaled fist for the Char to AC effect and crane style, but decided against it.

What I plan for the build is to go 8 levels of Aldori defender then go duelist.

The build is inspired by the Three musketeers and the character is even a chaotic good human named Porthos.

I am planning to get the Crane style branch of feats, deflect arrows as well as others. Though it may not be too Ac heavy on its own I am planning for its feats to supplement.


It is not a optimized spread for the ability scores, but I did not want to go neg.

Str 12
Con 11
Dex 16
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 16 (18 with racial bonus)

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[80Maxwell08]

For dedicated caster cleric I really like idea of Gozreh Ecclesitheurge with Air or Weather Primary domain and Animal secondary, maybe with some archery feats. Animal gives you pet on level 4 and they are crazy on low levels and decent at high. Smilodon or Leopard is better and studier melee then cleric himself even with proper feats. Air gives you ability to put damage spells like Chain Lighting into your non-domain spell slots. You'll be like almost-wizard with kitty and buffs and healing.

Crusader is extra bad for not only loosing one domain, but also one spell slot on every level. Info is nowhere in the game (!) but it makes him worst cleric archetype.

I think I'm going to try that Ecclesitheurge idea out. I should have enough melee support between Amiri, Valerie and Jaethal to get through the early part of the game.
Still sticking with Lawbringer Aasimar since it seems to give the most useful stats and skills for what I want. For stats I'm thinking something like so.
10 STR
13 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
18 WIS
16 CHA
A couple more questions before I start this. Is the first domain you pick on the heritage screen your primary domain? Also, should I get the dodge feat if I'm going primary caster? If not, then I'll probably change DEX around.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why do you need 16 charisma? Better to put points into defensive stats Dex and Con. Have 14 charisma so you can take Selective Channeling.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Why do you need 16 charisma? Better to put points into defensive stats Dex and Con. Have 14 charisma so you can take Selective Channeling.

Persuasion basically but I'll take that into consideration and see what I can do with the extra points.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why do you need 16 charisma? Better to put points into defensive stats Dex and Con. Have 14 charisma so you can take Selective Channeling.

Persuasion basically but I'll take that into consideration and see what I can do with the extra points.

+1 to a skill and +1 channel energy per rest is not worth losing bonus AC, reflex, life and fort save.
Take into account you will not reach lvl 20 by end of the game so you will only get +4 to stats during the game.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Why do you need 16 charisma? Better to put points into defensive stats Dex and Con. Have 14 charisma so you can take Selective Channeling.

Persuasion basically but I'll take that into consideration and see what I can do with the extra points.

+1 to a skill and +1 channel energy per rest is not worth losing bonus AC, reflex, life and fort save.
Take into account you will not reach lvl 20 by end of the game so you will only get +4 to stats during the game.

Well I adjusted it and came out to this.
10 STR
14 DEX
16 CON
10 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA

I'm kind of undecided on that CON. Seems a bit high for a dedicated caster. Not sure what else to do with it though.

 

[Daidre]

A couple more questions before I start this. Is the first domain you pick on the heritage screen your primary domain?

Yes, first one you choose is primary and it is really matters for Ecclesitheurge.
If you want to use (decently) arbalet, then DEX could be useful. But CON is pretty good too, since many archers in this game just love to shoot armorless cleric.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Well then I think I've narrowed it down to three choices
Build #1
10 STR
14 DEX
16 CON
10 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA
Good WIS and CON. Decent DEX and CHA.

Build #2
10 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA
Better DEX than 1 and if I change the aasimar subrace to plumekith. I don't have to lose a whole +2 modifier in CON. However, this loses 2 points in persuasion which I'm not fond of, though I guess +5 mobility is decent for not having it as a class skill.

Build #3
10 STR
13 DEX
12 CON
10 INT
20 WIS
14 CHA
The highest WIS I can get for character creation, and this can work with both lawbringer and plumekith, so I can get the bonuses to persuasion or mobility. It is sacrificing a lot for that WIS though.

 

[Daidre]

Currently I have a level 3/4 aldori defender, with 2 levels Defender and two rogue.
Any thoughts or advice?

I think going 4 level rogue will be more profitable for you. Lvl 3 gives you DEX to DMG for dueling sword and lvl 4 - Debilitating Injury.
I've tried Valerie with 9 Aldori Defender 1 Traditional Monk (for Crane Style) 4 Thug with Weapon Focus -> Dazzling Display -> Shatter Defences -> Dreadful Carnage, and she was pretty sturdy and heavy hitting intimidator tank on Hard.
It fits really good with your big CHA.

 

[Daidre]

Well then I think I've narrowed it down to three choices

I really really love my perception and persuasion on MC, so for me it is Build #1)

 

[Tyroth Gideon]

I went dex to damage by taking slashing grace, though some builds i had looked at for Aldori defender did go 4 rogue.

One thing i found went 3-4 rogue, 4 Aldori defender, 7 Duelist, then the remaining levels spread between AD and/or rogue.

Out of curiosity, do effects which transer say the damage modifier being based off streangth or the scaled fist Cha to AC or Sword Saints Int to AC stack with other effeccts of the same vein, or is it like the item effects, in which they do not stack.

May not of worded it correctly.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Well then I think I've narrowed it down to three choices

I really really love my perception and persuasion on MC, so for me it is Build #1)

Yeah I think I'm going to stick with 1. I forgot to mention the lawbringer aasimar also gets hold person so that could be decent for a caster too.

 

[Daidre]

Out of curiosity, do effects which transer say the damage modifier being based off strength or the scaled fist Cha to AC or Sword Saints Int to AC stack with other effeccts of the same vein, or is it like the item effects, in which they do not stack.

I have checked Slashing Grace + Rogue Finesse Training and they do not add up for x2 bonus. Only one of them is enough.
This makes rogue levels bit less attractive for you, but if you main tank for party, then Uncanny Dodge has some decent value too.
Scaled fist Cha to AC and Sword Saints Int to AC do work together for both CHA and INT to AC.
Funny thing, Sword Saint Int to AC and Duelist ability with the same name work together for x2 AC bonus (if they didnt fixed this in some patch).

I do not know what feats you already have, but wanted to add that Outflank is a top tier on all your melee. And Outflank + Combat Reflexes + Seize the Moment is super combo for turning any fight into AOO fest.

 

[user]

Can anyone help me with an Eldritch scion problem?

Tested on a troll with spell combat turned on:
-If I cast a spell at the start of my turn, the character idles for ~5 seconds until the end of the round until he casts the spell (e.g.lightning bolt) and does not attack, until the next turn.
-If I cast it at the end of my turn, the character casts the spell immediately. Also attacks before and after the spell without any idle time.

Seems like something isn't working well. Do I really have to time when I cast the spell in order to not waste any time?

 

[ArchAngel]

Can anyone help me with an Eldritch scion problem?

Tested on a troll with spell combat turned on:
-If I cast a spell at the start of my turn, the character idles for ~5 seconds until the end of the round until he casts the spell (e.g.lightning bolt) and does not attack, until the next turn.
-If I cast it at the end of my turn, the character casts the spell immediately. Also attacks before and after the spell without any idle time.

Seems like something isn't working well. Do I really have to time when I cast the spell in order to not waste any time?

Are you taking into account initiative and if this is first round or some middle of the combat round? Because your #1 could be explained by you losing initiative on start of combat, choosing spell and then waiting for a while until you get your chance to do something.

But when I tested Magus near game release after I got Regongar in my party, I did find them very fiddly and hard to use. So I would guess that choosing when to cast your spell does matter.

Also note that movement for magus makes it so they cannot attack and cast in same round.

 

[user]

Can anyone help me with an Eldritch scion problem?

Tested on a troll with spell combat turned on:
-If I cast a spell at the start of my turn, the character idles for ~5 seconds until the end of the round until he casts the spell (e.g.lightning bolt) and does not attack, until the next turn.
-If I cast it at the end of my turn, the character casts the spell immediately. Also attacks before and after the spell without any idle time.

Seems like something isn't working well. Do I really have to time when I cast the spell in order to not waste any time?

Are you taking into account initiative and if this is first round or some middle of the combat round? Because your #1 could be explained by you losing initiative on start of combat, choosing spell and then waiting for a while until you get your chance to do something.

But when I tested Magus near game release after I got Regongar in my party, I did find them very fiddly and hard to use. So I would guess that choosing when to cast your spell does matter.

Also note that movement for magus makes it so they cannot attack and cast in same round.

Yes I tested this on a poor unconscious troll without any movement for more than 20-30 rounds so initiative wasn't a problem. I also set the auto-pause on round end on and on the rounds I clicked the spell at the start of the turn the character was idling for almost the whole round. If I timed it at the end of the round my character never idled.

Gave up on the magus at the end... that kind of micro-management doesn't seem right. And it's a shame because the other feats and features work like clockwork (e.g. spell strike with auto--casting touch spells).

 

[Frusciante]

Need some opinions on a archer/ranger build.

I started a first playthrough with ranger, currently level 7. I like the class, it's a very effective damage dealer. It's also a quite boring main character though. I use hurricane bow and sense vitals and just attack people. Not much more utility.

So I'm thinking of restarting a somewhat different kind of archer character. In short I have considered fighter (good but even more boring), rogue (also not much more utility/fun), vivisectionist (in the end not a very good archer and don't like the spells a lot). Then I thought about making a sort of holy/divine/crusader kind of archer. Paladin I have considered but in the end I felt like I would miss the animal companion (for flavor/roleplay reasons mostly) and the spell selection is not that interesting (plus limited spell levels/slots just as ranger). So long story short I have ended up with two options: inquisitor (no subclass) or a Crusader Cleric (Erastil Deity). Both would take the animal domain to get an animal companion.

Pros/cons:

Inquisitor:
+ very good archer with the bonuses from spells, judgements and bane weapon
+ animal companion from domain
+ decent amount of spells and utility
+ spontaneous casting
+ very high number of skillpoints, nice for main character
- no interesting additional summons from spells, less versatility in spells compared to cleric
- more starved for feats than crusader

Stats (human):
Dexterity 20 --> 24
Wisdom 15 --> 16

Crusader
+ bonus feats which allows you to take improved weapon focus, weapon specialization and greater weapon specialization plus can use the extra feat at lvl 1 to take weapon focus early
+ bonus feats and spells make him an ok to decent archer (I think)
+ animal companion from domain
+ additional summon animal spells from domain plus raise dead like spells
+ more variety in spells
+ I like the flavor of this build/class a lot
- not a lot of room to prepare many kinds of spells due limited spell slots and the need to prepare self buffs
- much less effective archer than inquisitor
- much less skill points (not a big issue for me)

Stats (human):
Dexterity 18 --> 22
Wisdom 17 --> 18

Any views on these builds? With a cleric (in test area) I end up with around 23 attack bonus with the starter gear only, after buffed from spells (divine power mostly) and with deadly aim and rapid shot enabled. What kind of attack bonus should I aim for in the end game? The cleric would clearly be much more of a hybrid character, using buffs, heals and summons in addition to doing some damage with a bow. ​

The inquisitor can (with starter gear) reach around 33 attack bonus with judgements, spells and bane weapon. Plus he would get +9 and +4d6 bonus damage from the judgement and bane weapon skills. So all in all, the inquisitor can deal some very good damage with the bow and have good attack bonus also - in addition to his utility spells.

 

[Jarpie]

Need some opinions on a archer/ranger build.

I started a first playthrough with ranger, currently level 7. I like the class, it's a very effective damage dealer. It's also a quite boring main character though. I use hurricane bow and sense vitals and just attack people. Not much more utility.

So I'm thinking of restarting a somewhat different kind of archer character. In short I have considered fighter (good but even more boring), rogue (also not much more utility/fun), vivisectionist (in the end not a very good archer and don't like the spells a lot). Then I thought about making a sort of holy/divine/crusader kind of archer. Paladin I have considered but in the end I felt like I would miss the animal companion (for flavor/roleplay reasons mostly) and the spell selection is not that interesting (plus limited spell levels/slots just as ranger). So long story short I have ended up with two options: inquisitor (no subclass) or a Crusader Cleric (Erastil Deity). Both would take the animal domain to get an animal companion.

Pros/cons:

Inquisitor:
+ very good archer with the bonuses from spells, judgements and bane weapon
+ animal companion from domain
+ decent amount of spells and utility
+ spontaneous casting
+ very high number of skillpoints, nice for main character
- no interesting additional summons from spells, less versatility in spells compared to cleric
- more starved for feats than crusader

Stats (human):
Dexterity 20 --> 24
Wisdom 15 --> 16

Crusader
+ bonus feats which allows you to take improved weapon focus, weapon specialization and greater weapon specialization plus can use the extra feat at lvl 1 to take weapon focus early
+ bonus feats and spells make him an ok to decent archer (I think)
+ animal companion from domain
+ additional summon animal spells from domain plus raise dead like spells
+ more variety in spells
+ I like the flavor of this build/class a lot
- not a lot of room to prepare many kinds of spells due limited spell slots and the need to prepare self buffs
- much less effective archer than inquisitor
- much less skill points (not a big issue for me)

Stats (human):
Dexterity 18 --> 22
Wisdom 17 --> 18

Any views on these builds? With a cleric (in test area) I end up with around 23 attack bonus with the starter gear only, after buffed from spells (divine power mostly) and with deadly aim and rapid shot enabled. What kind of attack bonus should I aim for in the end game? The cleric would clearly be much more of a hybrid character, using buffs, heals and summons in addition to doing some damage with a bow. ​

The inquisitor can (with starter gear) reach around 33 attack bonus with judgements, spells and bane weapon. Plus he would get 9 and +4d6 bonus damage from the judgement and bane weapon skills. So all in all, the inquisitor can deal some very good damage with the bow and have good attack bonus also - in addition to his utility spells.

Eldritch Archer can be very powerful , as they can deliver some damage spells with the ranged weapon, like scorching ray, plus they get some utility spells.

edit: if you want to play inquisitor with animal pet, play sacred huntsmaster.

 

[Frusciante]

text

Eldritch Archer can be very powerful , as they can deliver some damage spells with the ranged weapon, like scorching ray, plus they get some utility spells.

edit: if you want to play inquisitor with animal pet, play sacred huntsmaster.

Yes eldritch archer could be good - I find it less interesting though than the divine archer archetype.

Why sacred huntsman though? You give up the judgements (which are absolutely amazing) for a pet that you can also get by selecting animal domain.