Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[NJClaw]

A Sword Saint with 1 level monk dip already has impenetrable defences if you play semi-competently.
Now have a good, long look at all the Sword Saint abilities. Do you really thing that anything you could gain from further multiclassing holds a candle to these abilities and their progression?

Well, cha to saves is nice. Also I guess 2 handed fighter's power attack bonus is a bit nice. But yeah - the extra buff duration is already a lot to give up.

You need 15 fighter levels to get the power attack bonus. With 3 levels you get weapons and armors proficiencies, two bonus feats, +1 to maneuvers, and a joke feature that does nothing unless you charge.

 

[Sergiu64]

You need 15 fighter levels to get the power attack bonus. With 3 levels you get weapons and armors proficiencies, two bonus feats, +1 to maneuvers, and a joke feature that does nothing.

Oh damn, I thought it'd add it on the first attack. Sounds like the build is terrible after all.

 

[NJClaw]

Finally found the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...t_is_the_tankiest_2_handed_build_in_the_game/

Seems like there's some shenanigans with 2 handed wielding which lets you get both 2 handed weapon damage, crane wing and ss int to ac bonus.

4 fighter for weapon spec and overhand chop.

FOUR levels for +2 to damage and half your strength bonus on charges is a joke.

Oh damn, I thought it'd add it on the first attack. Sounds like the build is terrible after all.

It only works with the single attack action or the charge action. It doesn't work with the full attack and it doesn't work with vital strike.

 

[Yosharian]

Saw some build on reddit suggest an improvement over Sword Saint with a level of Scaled Fist, 2 Levels of Paladin, a level of Sorc, 3 levels of 2 handed fighter, some dragon disciple levels (4?) and rest in sword saint. The point was to have crazy defenses (cha to AC and Saves, plus Int to AC) on top of good 2 hander damage. But I'm not sure if Dragon Disciple levels are worth it. Thoughts?

Sorc and DD are a waste. 2HF isn't that good compared to continuing in SS, mostly - the reason you get some Fighter levels is to get better CMB and some bonus feats, but 2HF doesn't get to improve their CMB.

 

[razvedchiki]

the haploik school of combat is never wrong.

 

[Haplo]

A Sword Saint with 1 level monk dip already has impenetrable defences if you play semi-competently.
Now have a good, long look at all the Sword Saint abilities. Do you really thing that anything you could gain from further multiclassing holds a candle to these abilities and their progression?

Well, cha to saves is nice.

I suppose.
Then again, when testing, I've found that the save that really counts vs enemy spells is Will. And by boosting Wis rather then Cha and going for Traditional Monk rather then Scaled Fist, you end up with roughly same Will as a Pala multiclass, still huge Fortitude ( I guess with buffs you could reach nearly 40) and only inferior Reflex - which never hurt me. And 2 levels is a hefty sacrifice.

 

[Haplo]

Saw some build on reddit suggest an improvement over Sword Saint with a level of Scaled Fist, 2 Levels of Paladin, a level of Sorc, 3 levels of 2 handed fighter, some dragon disciple levels (4?) and rest in sword saint. The point was to have crazy defenses (cha to AC and Saves, plus Int to AC) on top of good 2 hander damage. But I'm not sure if Dragon Disciple levels are worth it. Thoughts?

Sorc and DD are a waste. 2HF isn't that good compared to continuing in SS, mostly - the reason you get some Fighter levels is to get better CMB and some bonus feats, but 2HF doesn't get to improve their CMB.

Yep, that's actually... nerfing your BAB.

Also wasting the unique SS "qualify for feats with SS levels rather then their BAB requirement" special.

 

[NJClaw]

I've found that the save that really counts vs enemy spells is Will.

That's why you go full Paladin and get CHA to saves twice.

 

[oneself]

Is it worth to dip 2 into eldritch archer for Ekun to get the extra attack at -2?

Not sold on pure ranger. A little behind damage wise when compared to my deliverer archer pc.

 

[Haplo]

Try using Hurricane Bow with Devourer of Metal. Enlarge him too.
Aspect of the Falcon and eventually Sense Vitals should help as well.

 

[oneself]

Try using Hurricane Bow with Devourer of Metal. Enlarge him too.
Aspect of the Falcon and eventually Sense Vitals should help as well.

My pc calling dibs on devour atm.

I didn't know hurricane worked like that with Devourer. Interesting.

Which level 20 bonus is actually worth it? The classes seems to be frontloaded. You get a lot good stuff at level 1 and the fort save or die level 20 bonuses are meh

 

[Cryomancer]

What is the maximum DC possible for finger of death?

 

[Desiderius]

It only works with the single attack action or the charge action. It doesn't work with the full attack and it doesn't work with vital strike.

Tbf that ends up most of what you’re doing as a THF. The question is whether it works on AoOs/Cleave.

 

[Desiderius]

Try using Hurricane Bow with Devourer of Metal. Enlarge him too.
Aspect of the Falcon and eventually Sense Vitals should help as well.

My pc calling dibs on devour atm.

I didn't know hurricane worked like that with Devourer. Interesting.

Which level 20 bonus is actually worth it? The classes seems to be frontloaded. You get a lot good stuff at level 1 and the fort save or die level 20 bonuses are meh

Level 19 Ranger ability is smooth as silk. As clunky as Swift actions are Free Actions are butter.

 

[NJClaw]

Tbf that ends up most of what you’re doing as a THF. The question is whether it works on AoOs/Cleave.

Last time I checked it didn't work with either of those, but it was almost a year ago now.

 

[Desiderius]

Never been a fan of THF, but they did give it the extra Weapon Training Feats in one of those patches.

 

[Desiderius]

I didn't know hurricane worked like that with Devourer. Interesting.

Amiri is Ranger here too BTW.

 

[Desiderius]

Is it worth to dip 2 into eldritch archer for Ekun to get the extra attack at -2?

Not sold on pure ranger. A little behind damage wise when compared to my deliverer archer pc.

What is the Deliverer appeal? Throw a situational d6 or two around and people lose their minds. Think about what you lose compared to base class for God's sake. The EA is closer since Ranger is already a slow pet class so you're gimping Okbo, but that's not fatal.

What really hurts is losing your uptick from all your scaling abilities and spells and eventually Improved Quarry. If he is using Devourer and Deadly Aim that -2 isn't trivial either since you're relying on landing iteratives since ranged toons can change targets mid-full attack.

 

[Desiderius]

I've found that the save that really counts vs enemy spells is Will. And by boosting Wis rather then Cha and going for Traditional Monk rather then Scaled Fist, you end up with roughly same Will as a Pala multiclass, still huge Fortitude ( I guess with buffs you could reach nearly 40) and only inferior Reflex - which never hurt me. And 2 levels is a hefty sacrifice.

Getting your Saves high is a nice convenience but at the end of the day you can still critically miss. Best defense is a good offense. Also the game has many, many sources of Immunity/prevention.

 

[Desiderius]

FOUR levels for +2 to damage and half your strength bonus on charges is a joke.

Basic Rule: never splash for mere stats or damage, game has sources of those coming out it's ears.

Exception: DC

 

[Desiderius]

I prefer actually hitting enemies. And making enemies much easier to hit for the rest of the party. Plus I don't see that much value in rapid early CMs without optimized CMB. On higher difficulties, they will stick somewhat reliably only on casters, particularly early on.

Free demoralizing feats from Fire are nice. But I've largely moved away from Dazzling. And Celerity is simply fantastic. 3-10 extra casts of Haste per rest, without wasting any spellslots? Yes, please. Sure it may only last 5 rounds at level 6... but you're free to almost spam it as needed. And its impact at low level... Well, for most characters it doubles the amount of attacks at low levels. Without sacrificing any AB. Nuff said.
I've rarely used Haste at low levels due to spellslot conservation. But Celerity? All the time. Can spend all Burn and my Bard/mage will still have some reserve spell slots in case of a boss fight or something.

Well if my toons aren’t hitting they hit the bench until they do. I may have chosen Harrim over her that playthrough IIRC so you could have a point. I’d imagine the DR would be pretty solid and she’d be comparable to regular TSS on early lvls otherwise.

The thing about the CMs is they don’t have to proc all the time since they’re tacked on to every attack for free. Like Okbo’s Trip but easier to boost. Would be good to have access to Magnetic when you really need it no doubt. That’s why I’m saying base Kin is probably better for her.

 

[oneself]

Is it worth to dip 2 into eldritch archer for Ekun to get the extra attack at -2?

Not sold on pure ranger. A little behind damage wise when compared to my deliverer archer pc.

What is the Deliverer appeal? Throw a situational d6 or two around and people lose their minds. Think about what you lose compared to base class for God's sake. The EA is closer since Ranger is already a slow pet class so you're gimping Okbo, but that's not fatal.

What really hurts is losing your uptick from all your scaling abilities and spells and eventually Improved Quarry. If he is using Devourer and Deadly Aim that -2 isn't trivial either since you're relying on landing iteratives since ranged toons can change targets mid-full attack.

You may have misunderstood, my main char is a deliverer. Ekun is still a ranger. Good doggo is good.

Though I still don't know what Ranger brings to the table over the Deliverer beyond the pet. Too early to know if Ranger has some spells that can beat the sneak attack + anathema + studied target bonus.

Also how did you get a +51 bonus on the attack?

 

[Seari]

Why use Ekun when your pc already uses bows?

 

[Desiderius]

You may have misunderstood, my main char is a deliverer. Ekun is still a ranger. Good doggo is good.

Though I still don't know what Ranger brings to the table over the Deliverer beyond the pet. Too early to know if Ranger has some spells that can beat the sneak attack + anathema + studied target bonus.

Yes, I understand all that.

Deliverer sux. Hard. Compared to base Slayer. Love Slaya.

Also Hap just told you and I just showed you.

 

[Desiderius]

Also how did you get a +51 bonus on the attack?

I still sucked at that point.

Why use Ekun when your pc already uses bows?

Because it’s two toons for the price of one. If you’re fighting one of his Favorite Enemies he could own them with a Sling.