Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sergiu64]

Everything you think you know about this game is wrong. If you enjoy games like that as much as we do then you've got a lot of fun to look forward to.

I got past Pitax when I first played before I burned out. It's a good game - but the buffing hell and the encounter design were too much for me. Seems like the game is much improved with the likes of the Buff Bot mod and the new real time/turn based switch button.

All you need is reach (and/or Enlarge) to be relatively safe in melee.
I consider a minimum 6 level Freebooter (or 10) essential for any martial party due to his sick unlimited bonuses, so I tend to multiclass Amiri into one.

That's what I did with her last time, but I prefer to play in real time as the game is so damn long and she would just chain cast that Freebooter ability over and over if I had it on auto-cast. That plus her squishy AC made her too high maintenance.

Anyway based on Desiderius's and Grunker's posts - sounds like there's love for base Inquisitor class? What am I missing with it? Why have a 3/4th bab class with 2/3rd divine casting when you can have a 3/4th bab class with full divine casting?

 

[NJClaw]

Anyway based on Desiderius's and Grunker's posts - sounds like there's love for base Inquisitor class? What am I missing with it? Why have a 3/4th bab class with 2/3rd divine casting when you can have a 3/4th bab class with full divine casting?

The main benefit of the Inquisitor is that the character model has a sick hat.

 

[Desiderius]

That's what I did with her last time, but I prefer to play in real time as the game is so damn long and she would just chain cast that Freebooter ability over and over if I had it on auto-cast. That plus her squishy AC made her too high maintenance.

Anyway based on Desiderius's and Grunker's posts - sounds like there's love for base Inquisitor class? What am I missing with it? Why have a 3/4th bab class with 2/3rd divine casting when you can have a 3/4th bab class with full divine casting?

What squishy AC? What's attacking her anyway? I usually only use Bane on bosses or first round of combat or in tough fights like Soul Eaters. If you're using it you're not Full Attacking. Bond is the one that gets a little tiresome but one round of prep before each fight isn't too burdensome as it gives you a chance to review your plan.

As for Inq, are classes blank text to you other than BAB and casting? Stop playing the games in your head and play this one.

You'll never know what you're missing until you try to make it work yourself. That goes for literally every class in the game. Recommend getting to midgame at least before prejudging, but she's not a total waste even before then.

Maybe the strongest aspect of the class is being able to spam a spell that Clerics get too but is criminally underrated. Anyway bottom line is stacking and scaling. Plus sick abilities like WIS to initiative (DOS II nerfed initiative for a reason) and Solo Tactics.

 

[Sergiu64]

What squishy AC? What's attacking her anyway?

Well... if she's using a large 2 hander and is some generic melee class - where is her AC coming from? Buffs? Actual tanks can get those same buffs and be completely unhittable.

As for Inq, are classes blank text to you other than BAB and casting? Stop playing the games in your head and play this one.
You'll never know what you're missing until you try to make it work yourself. That goes for literally every class in the game. Recommend getting to midgame at least before prejudging, but she's not a total waste even before then.
Maybe the strongest aspect of the class is being able to spam a spell that Clerics get too but is criminally underrated. Anyway bottom line is stacking and scaling. Plus sick abilities like WIS to initiative (DOS II nerfed initiative for a reason) and Solo Tactics.

What can I say - I'm a munchkin. My idea of fun is to run into a room and see everything die due to my buffed dudes auto attacking. Maybe make a single pause and cast some game breaking CC here and there if needed. For example in Arcanum - I had a charismatic guy that went for that time acceleration spell. I would run into a room and everything would die to my hasted half ogre companions.

 

[Desiderius]

Tank, spank, and heal is wildly suboptimal when every toon can be a threat instead of just one or two.

Again, stop playing your ghey faceroll MMO and play P:K. It’s fun.

The greatest irony of all and why I love this game so much is that the more you munchkin the more you suck.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

No idea how people complain about buffing in this game. You have your communal delay poison, resist elements, and protection from arrows on reserve. Haste for when you're in a pinch. By mid game, a couple instances of death ward and an emergency Freedom of Movement. Use them when the issue comes up, or even prophylactically later on when you have an abundance of spell slots and a long duration. Even doing that, you're casting like 4 communal buffs across two caster types. Boohoo.

Sure, Aid + Bless + Barkskin + Protection from Evil + Bull Strength + Magical Vestment, Freedom of Movement, etc. can help, but they are entirely unnecessary. I think I would use Aid + Bless on the large maps because I had and abundance of the spell slots, but I'd only put them on my tank & off tank. The OP items and absent AI only really make one buff necessary--AC. Even then, only only really two character is necessary. You don't really need spells for that and many won't stack on your items anyway. Having sky high saves is great, but not really an issue until you get to HATEOT.

 

[Desiderius]

Also, there are no generic melee classes. Learn and use your fucking class abilities instead of swinging your dick around because you like games for stupid lazy people who can’t be bothered to learn and use class abilities.

 

[Desiderius]

Bless is quickly outclassed by Good Hope. Or if you’re still stuck playing D&D and haven’t figured out Bard yet even Heroism blows out Bless.

Even anti-Bard holdouts can get Good Hope from Dorf helm and wand from Varnhold. Comes with a Prayer wand (Prayer is Luck so stacks usually) in a big hint, hint about where your buffing game should be by that point.

Burst of Glory is partywide Aid + Sacred AB (also usually stacks).

 

[Desiderius]

Investigator is less micro as you go (you get abilities that give you your skill check/attack/save bonus dice free so you can just toggle them on permanently) and your Studied Target grows a lot faster than Slayer.

I think midgame you can get a Sicken tacked on and a Blind/Dispel late.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/investigator-talents/

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Oh right, Good Hope. I forgot about that one. I did use that. So now we have 3 classes simultaneously casting 1-2 spells. Talk about grinding gameplay to a halt.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah if you just stick to the long duration buffs and don't rest spam it's mostly a non-issue.

 

[gurugeorge]

The mod Kingmaker Buff Bot is quite useful for the interminable buffing in this game. You can set it by specific characters, or by classes, or you can have it split up into 1 hour buffs, 10 min buffs, etc.

Takes a bit of setting up to get the best out of it though. But once it's up and running it's a real time-saver and brain-saver.

I tend to find it's more immersive initially just to do all the buffing manually, but by about half-way through the game there gets to be too much to retain in one's poor brain, so one always misses out on something crucial at the wrong moment

 

[Sergiu64]

No idea how people complain about buffing in this game. You have your communal delay poison, resist elements, and protection from arrows on reserve. Haste for when you're in a pinch. By mid game, a couple instances of death ward and an emergency Freedom of Movement. Use them when the issue comes up, or even prophylactically later on when you have an abundance of spell slots and a long duration. Even doing that, you're casting like 4 communal buffs across two caster types. Boohoo.

Sure, Aid + Bless + Barkskin + Protection from Evil + Bull Strength + Magical Vestment, Freedom of Movement, etc. can help, but they are entirely unnecessary. I think I would use Aid + Bless on the large maps because I had and abundance of the spell slots, but I'd only put them on my tank & off tank. The OP items and absent AI only really make one buff necessary--AC. Even then, only only really two character is necessary. You don't really need spells for that and many won't stack on your items anyway. Having sky high saves is great, but not really an issue until you get to HATEOT.

Each Magus: Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, Barkskin from someone, Int buff, Str buff, Con buff, Dex buff, Wis buff, Freedom of Movement, Magical Vestment, True Seeing, Resists, and it just goes on and on. If there are any pets, they need pet specific buffs.

Sure - I could not cast them, but then I might actually *gasp* take damage and need healing. Anyway, all that is a moot point with the buff bot mod.

 

[Desiderius]

Each Magus: Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, Barkskin from someone, Int buff, Str buff, Con buff, Dex buff, Wis buff, Freedom of Movement, Magical Vestment, True Seeing, Resists, and it just goes on and on. If there are any pets, they need pet specific buffs.

Sure - I could not cast them, but then I might actually *gasp* take damage and need healing. Anyway, all that is a moot point with the buff bot mod.

Then don't play multiple Magi lol. All that buffing should be at the beginning of the dungeon and maybe once or twice as you go if you're not rest spamming, and the Stat boosts can usually be relegated to equipment or done en masse by midgame.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Sergiu64 You're doing that to yourself. That is not at all necessary. You're using too many buffs and prematurely at that. Do you rest for every map and twice or thrice on the larger dungeons? No wonder you don't like it.

*Edited for grammar.

 

[Sjukob]

What do you guys do with Jaethal? Inquisitor seems like such a mediocre class. Just a plain cleric instead? Or does she work as a ranger?

Don't know about Jaethal, but playing with CoTW I personally can't stop speccing Harrim into a fauchard wielding cleave specialist sacred huntsmaster each time I play. Why?

1. Animal companion that automatically gains any teamwork feats that sacred huntsmaster acquires, the benefits are obvious;
2. Bonus teamwork feats, the class gains enough of them to grab everything essential and more;
3. Animal focus (replaces favored enemy), basically it's a bonus to one of the attributes, skills or other things (movement speed, + to hit on attacks of opportunity, evasion) that you can activate for free at any time and have it beeing active indefinitely, you can only have 1 such being active, but you can switch them at any time. At level 14 or something you can have 2 focuses being active at the same time. Your pet also gains those focuses and they work identically to inquisitor ones;
4. Bane - probably the prime reason I spec Harrim into cleave, because it's just silly to not give some of this to everything you encounter. 2d6 force damage that progresses to 4d6 at level 12. You can activate at any time and it stacks with every other enchantment the weapon has, it's force damage, so nothing in the game resists it;
5. Judgements. Yes, sacred huntsmaster retains access to judgements via spell "Lend judgement", I don't think they are that good, but it's nice to have them
   Spoiler

   
6. Domain and domain powers. Inquisitors get to pick a domain and thanks to Groteus Harrim has access to some of the best domain powers in the game - aura of madness and aura of destruction;
7. Some divine spells in particular, like "Deadly juggernaut". I wasn't paying attention to that spell until recently, silly me, it's pretty fucking powerful spell. Considering the amount of combat and enemies in the game, anything under the effect of it is basically sitting at +5 to hit and damage all the time. And pet classes get to share their spells with pets, so your smilodon or whatever can enjoy it benefits too
   Spoiler

   
8. Inquisitor's ability - stern gaze + dwarf racial ability - keen senses means that Harrim has perception out of his ass, you won't fail any of those checks anymore;
9. Why fauchard + cleave? I don't try to make him a tank, so to not get killed he needs to stand in safety behind tanks and it's easier to do with a reach weapon and fauchard is obviously the best one. Inquisitors get 0,75 bab and no additional means to boost the number of their attacks, so using cleave in many occasions allows to deal more damage, even if it isn't focused, it also allows you to get deadly juggernaut stacks faster, with bane and cleave you will mawing through trash mobs very quickly. As for the reach, look at this - enlarge person + fluid form spell (thanks Jubilost). And before you get fluid form you can just use "long arm" instead, which is less powerful, but sill does the job alright.
   Spoiler

   

   

So you get a potent martial that brings a pet, useful divine buffs for the party (delay poison, death ward, freedom of movement etc) and snoops everything.

 

[Sjukob]

Here's some theorycrafting for those who like blaster casters, using CoTW of course. Sorcerers with dragon bloodline or primal sorcerers (new archetype in CoTW) get +1 damage per dice rolled on spells that deal corresponding elemental damage. On the very first level sorcerers can take "blood havoc" ability as part of their bloodline, this ability adds another +1 to damage per dice rolled to blodline spells and to schools that you have selected with "spell focus" feat. Realistically, with these abilities and "spell focus - evocation" you get +2 damage per dice rolled right from the start. Amulet of Four Elements is a trinket crafted by Mim, which adds yet another +1 damage per dice rolled for spells that deal elemental damage, it's a tier 0 item, so there are no requirements for it to be crafted, just build a workshop for Mim and ask her to bring you an amulet. It's safe to say that you can have it by level 10-12 or may be a bit earlier or later depending on your playstyle and luck.

Let's see how it adds up. Say, you are a sorcerer that casts dragon breath (level 4 spell) at caster level 12. Dragon breath deals 1d6 damage per caster level and caps at 15d6. At level 12 all the things that you have stacked will add flat 36 damage to anything that fails it's reflex save. When it comes to non ray spells, arcane trickster can get a maximum of 42 damage (7d6) increase on them, so a level 12 sorc adds almost as much damage to his AOE spells as a fully leveled arcane trickster does, and that's assuming a highest possible roll on every sneak attack dice, and there's no rolling for this damage, it's always 36 (or more) as long as the target fails it's saving throw.

You can push this bonus to +4, but it's harder, you will have to get charred mantle, frozen shout or other items that match your type of elemental damage. Let's see the numbers, somebody with +4 damage per dice rolled bonus casts chain lightning as a level 15 caster, thats's 15d6 damage + flat 60 for every target that fails it's reflex save, pretty cool huh, especially if you stack it with arcane trickster sneak attack stuff.

So, if you ask me, I say that sorc is a go to choice for arcane trickster, despite the delayed spell progression. You take arcane trickster to deal damage and sorc offers you even more of it.

I heard that in wrathmaker you can get something like +6 or +7 damage per dice rolled to your spells via some demon forms if you chose demon mythic path. Don't know if it's true, but with such numbers it's basically like being hit by one spell twice if the saving throw fails.

 

[Efe]

meanwhile a composite blast does comparable damage without any investment.

 

[Desiderius]

Last unmodded playthrough gave Tristian Serpent Prince and didn't even have to bother with Cleave. He just sat there Enlarged AoOing everything that moved while he spent most of his time casting.

 

[Desiderius]

meanwhile a composite blast does comparable damage without any investment.

People just lose their freaking mind for Sneaks. Just meta your existing spells and you'll quickly outpace the sneakage or use weapons and do likewise with your iteratives.

 

[razvedchiki]

wanna play a full custom party, larping as a minor noble with his retinue (using COTW builds)
- mc aldori defender/swordlord
- court magician some blaster dude
- captain of the guard, prob dwarf drill sergeant
- swordmaster either some slayer or swasbuckler
or court poet, maybe skald or bard.
- a cleric for them basic healings and buffs, prob some warpriest
- royal hunter, archer or crossbow.
any thoughts?
edit
screenshot flexing vomit is forbiden.

 

[Desiderius]

There’s a pretty good Swashbuckler mod that functions as an add-on to CotW that’s just a little too clunky in its implementation for my taste (the way the game handles swift actions is not good, especially reactive ones without toggles) but that you might enjoy.

Drill Sergeant is fun/solid.

 

[razvedchiki]

any good blaster COTW build? or should i focus on disables?
prob gonna replace him with a grenadier, straightforward and i dont have to open 10 tabs every time i lvl in a mage build.

 

[Desiderius]

Maybe try Preservationist instead. Grenadier looks broken but ends up giving you a bunch of stuff you don’t really need. Psychic is also fun.

 

[Desiderius]

A fun Grenadier would be fighting Enlarged with Bardiche and STR-mutagen hitting people with AoOs while you use your action economy on Precise Cone Breath Bombs.​