Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sjukob]

Wait what. You're saying +damage to damage dice on spells applies to the bonus Sneak Attack dice from Arcane Trickster?

Yes, it applies to any sneak attack dice. Here's my level 11 primal sorc with a +3 damage per dice rolled zaps a wolf:

Spoiler

Though I have no idea why does the spell itself gets +13 damage and not +12, while the calculations for the sneak attack damage (8x3=24) are correct.

 

[Cael]

Wait what. You're saying +damage to damage dice on spells applies to the bonus Sneak Attack dice from Arcane Trickster?

Yes, it applies to any sneak attack dice. Here's my level 11 primal sorc with a +3 damage per dice rolled zaps a wolf:

Spoiler

Though I have no idea why does the spell itself gets +13 damage and not +12, while the calculations for the sneak attack damage (8x3=24) are correct.

Do you have Point Blank Shot or something similar that gives a bonus to ranged attack under certain circumstances?

 

[Sjukob]

Do you have Point Blank Shot or something similar that gives a bonus to ranged attack under certain circumstances?

Oh yes, I keep forgetting that point blank shot even does anything besides being a prerequisite for the precise shot.

 

[Yosharian]

Wait what. You're saying +damage to damage dice on spells applies to the bonus Sneak Attack dice from Arcane Trickster?

Yes, it applies to any sneak attack dice. Here's my level 11 primal sorc with a +3 damage per dice rolled zaps a wolf:

Spoiler

Though I have no idea why does the spell itself gets +13 damage and not +12, while the calculations for the sneak attack damage (8x3=24) are correct.

Interesting, can you specify all the sources of +damage you were able to find? I presume at least one of them is the Sorcerer element-associated one.

 

[Sjukob]

Interesting, can you specify all the sources of +damage you were able to find? I presume at least one of them is the Sorcerer element-associated one.

I wanted to do lightning themed nuker, so I've only done my research on that element and here's how you get to +5 bonus:

Spoiler

1. Is a bloodline feature for primal sorcerers (dragon sorcs get a similar thing), this is acquired automatically on level 1;
2. Is a bloodline ability that you can get on level 1, I honestly don't know if this ability is unique to primal sorcerers or other archetypes can get it too;
3. Is an amulet crafted by Mim, it's a tier 0 item so there are no requirements for it to be crafted;
4. Is a cloak that you can get if you finish Regongar quest line;
5. The robe is Sharel's masterpiece item.

I only have the first 3, I spawned the other items via bag of tricks just to show their descriptions.

 

[Desiderius]

Anyone remember that one guy that did a lot of builds for companions/main character in GoG forums?

Roahin's were good for the time. If you're new at the game they can give you some ideas to get you started but turns out you usually can't go wrong if you just stick single-class and let your party cover whatever weaknesses your class has.

 

[Desiderius]

Let me get something straight about the Dirge Bard from CotW... every few levels he adds a Necromancy spell to his spell list, and this is *in addition* to the spells the Bard normally learns at level up? If that's really how it works, then jeez, that's kinda busted. Unkitted Bard can't compete with that.

Yeah, they have some balancing left to do, or not (they never got around to balancing Grenadier for instance). Main benefit is free bonus to Intimidate per level to boost Dazzling Display. Combine with Ceremonial Falcata and Mythic Persuasion from Trickster and go off.

There is a pretty tough boss early where you will miss base Bard bonus vs Sonic though, and Dirge Bard is suppoed to lose Bardic Knowledge (only retaining Lore (Religion) piece).

 

[Nano]

Yeah, they have some balancing left to do, or not

I'll go for not, thank you very much.

There is a pretty tough boss early where you will miss base Bard bonus vs Sonic though, and Dirge Bard is suppoed to lose Bardic Knowledge (only retaining Lore (Religion) piece).

Very small price to pay for Enchantment spells not being useless against undead.

 

[Desiderius]

I'll go for not, thank you very much.

Strictly better is a waste of time. Fear isn't any better vs Undead than Enchants are, but here are far less Undead in this game.

As usual you're missing all the points.

 

[Nano]

but here are far less Undead in this game

We talking about the same game here? Kingmaker is as bad as Icewind Dale with the amount of undead enemies in it.

 

[Desiderius]

I’m talking about Dirge Bard in Wrath. If you’re playing Dirge in CotW all you’re picking up is Control Undead, which is clunky full round action. Your Fear spells don’t work any better on Undead than your Enchants.

Soyer-style Bergeron Balance sux. Archetypes with meaningful and powerful tradeoffs enhance replayability and are good.

If an archetype is just strictly better you play that one and you’re done.

 

[Yosharian]

Interesting, can you specify all the sources of +damage you were able to find? I presume at least one of them is the Sorcerer element-associated one.

I wanted to do lightning themed nuker, so I've only done my research on that element and here's how you get to +5 bonus:

Spoiler

1. Is a bloodline feature for primal sorcerers (dragon sorcs get a similar thing), this is acquired automatically on level 1;
2. Is a bloodline ability that you can get on level 1, I honestly don't know if this ability is unique to primal sorcerers or other archetypes can get it too;
3. Is an amulet crafted by Mim, it's a tier 0 item so there are no requirements for it to be crafted;
4. Is a cloak that you can get if you finish Regongar quest line;
5. The robe is Sharel's masterpiece item.

I only have the first 3, I spawned the other items via bag of tricks just to show their descriptions.

What. Pretty sure Charred Mantle is only equippable by Regongar?

 

[Mangoose]

Let me get something straight about the Dirge Bard from CotW... every few levels he adds a Necromancy spell to his spell list, and this is *in addition* to the spells the Bard normally learns at level up? If that's really how it works, then jeez, that's kinda busted. Unkitted Bard can't compete with that.

Yeah, they have some balancing left to do, or not (they never got around to balancing Grenadier for instance).

The funny thing is that they're adapting pretty faithfully from PNP and they are balancing it.

Have you noticed how they brought in archetype stacking? Why play a Dirge Bard? Play a Dirge Bard Flamedancer or Dirge Bard Thundercaller lol.

BUT I imagine that in PNP, your DM should balance things, and decide how much munchkinism is needed. Actually Pathfinder official organized play, some archetypes are disallowed.

2e I believe they're having a set of archetypes that can apply to any class. I like how they've implemented their version of "kits" but I think they made too many from a management standpoint. So that it was too hard to keep an eye on them all. Hopefully that 2e change doesn't dilute anything interesting.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm 99% sure Charred Mantle is Regongar only and one of the other ones is a mod thing. +3 to each die is still ok I guess.

If you can somehow equip Charred Mantle then +4 is a pretty sizeable bonus, definitely worth building around.

 

[Desiderius]

Holic is the guy doing CotW and he tends to stick closer to PnP. I haven't tested his Dirge Bard recently to see which tradeoffs he implemented but usually the multiple archtype things share both strengths and weaknesses of each archetype.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dirge-bard/

Versatile performance as implemented in CotW is a uniquely powerful set of effects. Giving that up would be a major drawback but not sure if that is how he implemented it. Giving up Jack of All Trades is roughly equivalent to losing a Feat as well and anything that gives you an additional kind of performance has a steep opportunity cost.

 

[Yosharian]

Also I'm not sure if Frozen Shout is viable considering how important the head slot is for casters

What key cold spells are there for blasters anyway? Polar ray is definitely not going to be competitive with other options.

Scorching/Hellfire Ray are optimal for single-target, for AOE you're probably looking at Lightning, and for least-resisted it would be Acid.

 

[Yosharian]

Interesting, can you specify all the sources of +damage you were able to find? I presume at least one of them is the Sorcerer element-associated one.

I wanted to do lightning themed nuker, so I've only done my research on that element and here's how you get to +5 bonus:

Spoiler

1. Is a bloodline feature for primal sorcerers (dragon sorcs get a similar thing), this is acquired automatically on level 1;
2. Is a bloodline ability that you can get on level 1, I honestly don't know if this ability is unique to primal sorcerers or other archetypes can get it too;
3. Is an amulet crafted by Mim, it's a tier 0 item so there are no requirements for it to be crafted;
4. Is a cloak that you can get if you finish Regongar quest line;
5. The robe is Sharel's masterpiece item.

I only have the first 3, I spawned the other items via bag of tricks just to show their descriptions.

Yeah it literally says the screenshot you posted that Charred Mantle 'cannot be equipped by this character', also I just tested it and it is definitely only Reg who can equip it.

I dunno if there's some way to bypass that using BoT but otherwise, nope

 

[Mangoose]

Holic is the guy doing CotW and he tends to stick closer to PnP. I haven't tested his Dirge Bard recently to see which tradeoffs he implemented but usually the multiple archtype things share both strengths and weaknesses of each archetype.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dirge-bard/

Versatile performance as implemented in CotW is a uniquely powerful set of effects. Giving that up would be a major drawback but not sure if that is how he implemented it. Giving up Jack of All Trades is roughly equivalent to losing a Feat as well and anything that gives you an additional kind of performance has a steep opportunity cost.

Yeah. Actually he lists all the changes he has made from PNP on his Nexus page. One thing I noted was that Primal Bloodrager can only trade 1 Bloodrage power for 1 Barbarian Rage power instead of getting 2 Barbarian rage powers as in PNP (I think you get to do this twice).

For archetype stacking, yes, you share all of them. I don't really mind it, just needs declunkification because it takes some thought into seeing the archetypes are compatible (alter or replace or whatever). You can read the rules at d20pfsrd, it's not complicated but takes a bit to elaborate.

I'm very proud of Paizo's Unchained Monk (which I think is in Kingmake). Why? Because they give you a selection of "style strikes" (usually CMBs) that you can use as a Flurry of Blows "finisher." Funny thing is how easy it was to just squeeze that mechanic in, yet it gives flavor and choice.

Edit: "Tweak or Treat" seems to be actively keeping up with (post 2.15) CotW code. Not sure about the rest. https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/196?tab=description
Nevermind, my gut tells me not to risk it lol.

 

[Yosharian]

Another thing, how did you get hold of an electricity-based Scorching Ray without going for the Elemental bloodline?

 

[Yosharian]

Anyone know if Sneak Attack dice can be applied to alchemist bombs?

 

[Sjukob]

What. Pretty sure Charred Mantle is only equippable by Regongar?

Entirely fixable by bag of tricks, but if you don't like that, you can just spec Regongar into sorcerer instead. I've never liked all this premade companion nonsense anyway.

Another thing, how did you get hold of an electricity-based Scorching Ray without going for the Elemental bloodline?

Primal bloodlines are basically copies of the elemntal ones, but with additional +1 damage per dice rolled for the corresponding element.

Anyone know if Sneak Attack dice can be applied to alchemist bombs?

Yes, you even fight enemies that do that in season of the bloom - goblin alchemists.

 

[Yosharian]

How exactly do you make Charred Mantle equippable then?

 

[Sjukob]

How exactly do you make Charred Mantle equippable then?

Can't make screenshots at the moment, but in the bag of tricks menu there's an option in "items" tab that removes equipment restrictions, all of them, use it with moderation.

 

[Yosharian]

How exactly do you make Charred Mantle equippable then?

Can't make screenshots at the moment, but in the bag of tricks menu there's an option in "items" tab that removes equipment restrictions, all of them, use it with moderation.

Hmm. If it's just a global setting then it's not really ideal.

 

[Sjukob]

Hmm. If it's just a global setting then it's not really ideal.

Making Regongar a sorcerer is a great option too, he won't be a strong general, but you still have Amiri. Half orcs can get bonus damage for the fire spells via favored class mechanic, but I've learned that blaster casters are feat starved for the entire game, so human bonus feat is very helpful for them. I say it's up to your preference.