Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Testownia]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

Went through Varnhold with one last month, here were my impressions:

Currently going through Varnhold with a Spiritualist and Occultist. Occultist is... weird to say the least. The spells they have available kinda suck overall and some schools/implements don't even have spells at certain levels, but some of the focus powers are quite nice. Mine's got Transmutation, Abjuration, and Conjuration and overall it kinda feels like a weird weakish magus with support spells and arcanist exploits. I made him strength-focused with a two-handed weapon and he can enlarge himself with focus, cast lead blades, and use an expensive form of arcane enhancement for a big chunk of damage. The Spiritualist, as flavorful as it is just feels like a weaker, less versatile Summoner. I've got a despair phantom that doesn't do much damage despite investing in evolution feats but can inflict up to -4 to enemy saves with it's miserable strikes and aura. The Spiritualist herself can't do too much either; the class does get Animate Dead but unfortunately the CotW version is much more difficult to use effectively than vanilla. The spell list seems better than the Inquisitor's though.

In summary it's a weakish but decent class that doesn't really distinguish itself; HOWEVER I did not take the trappings of the warrior panopoly which boosts it's melee prowess significantly. And melee is where I believe Occultist is best used.

Also beware casting in melee, that psychic caster concentration tax hurts, and you don't want to have to waste a move action just to "center" yourself.

How did Holic implement Outside Contact?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ.../occult-classes/OCCULTIST/#Outside_Contact_Su

 

[InternalRevenue]

How did Holic implement Outside Contact?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ.../occult-classes/OCCULTIST/#Outside_Contact_Su

He didn't. Replaced it with the Construct Collector's Repower Construct ability instead. Didn't try it out myself so no idea how it works.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ...ypes/construct-collector-occultist-archetype/

 

[Testownia]

How did Holic implement Outside Contact?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ.../occult-classes/OCCULTIST/#Outside_Contact_Su

He didn't. Replaced it with the Construct Collector's Repower Construct ability instead. Didn't try it out myself so no idea how it works.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ...ypes/construct-collector-occultist-archetype/

Wait... so the Occultist has a Construct now? Which one?

 

[InternalRevenue]

How did Holic implement Outside Contact?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ.../occult-classes/OCCULTIST/#Outside_Contact_Su

He didn't. Replaced it with the Construct Collector's Repower Construct ability instead. Didn't try it out myself so no idea how it works.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ...ypes/construct-collector-occultist-archetype/

Wait... so the Occultist has a Construct now? Which one?

Nope read the ability description

Repower Construct (Su)
At 8th level, a construct collector can use his mental focus to restore and gain control of a construct. As an immediate action, he can expend a number of points of generic mental focus (minimum 2 points) to prevent a construct within 30 feet from becoming destroyed when reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. The construct immediately regains a number of hit points equal to half of the construct collector’s current hit points (minimum 1). The construct follows all of the construct collector’s orders until the end of the collector’s next turn or until reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. Afterwards, the construct is completely destroyed and cannot be repowered again, even by another construct collector. At 12th level, the construct is instead completely destroyed after a number of rounds equal to the number of points of generic mental focus expended. At 16th level, the construct is instead completely destroyed after a number of minutes equal to the number of points of generic mental focus expended.

It's basically an extremely short-term resurrect construct ability. Not only are there few constructs to even use it on in this game, but it requires unallocated focus points that you could instead invest in more useful implement features. Like I said didn't get to try it out so it might be more powerful in practice, but on paper sounds nearly worthless. Maybe all those

Spoiler

Pitax Golden Golems and Hateot Autumn Golems at the end of the game would prove that belief wrong.

 

[Mangoose]

Oh yeah, another bitchslap to me was the implementation of the Flame Dancer.

The point of the Flame Dancer was to set up a shitload of smoke and thus concealment, however allowing their party-mates to see through clearly. That's why it's quite well respected.

Just one ability not implemented, though I can imagine many reasons:

Song of the Fiery Gaze (Su): At 3rd level, a fire dancer can allow allies to see through flames without any distortion. Any ally within 30 feet of the bard who can hear the performance can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow him to see normally, as with the base effect of the gaze of flames oracle revelation. Song of the fiery gaze relies on audible components.

I dumno if it was a good idea, thus, to adapt Flame Dancer by "neutering" it. I don't say this in terms of difficulty or even balance... but you have to be able to bring the primary - and unique - elements of the archetype/class over. Otherwise, pick a different one (assuming the smoke effect had technical difficulties)

Edit: Is anybody reminded of the Tau right now?

 

[Mangoose]

Question: Which (if any) are companions that are worth playing with? I'd like to know so I can build my merc corp to fill those slots in. And also useful to know who to play with. (From Youtube, Tristian's VA was pretty good)

Playing Kineticist is hilarious because I have no idea what to do (at first) despite plenty of 3e experience. I'm like wat wat is dis.

I guess it's how the 3.5 Warlock was? I dunno, didn't play that one much, and didn't find it spectacular in NWN2.

 

[The Avatar]

Question: Which (if any) are companions that are worth playing with? I'd like to know so I can build my merc corp to fill those slots in. And also useful to know who to play with. (From Youtube, Tristian's VA was pretty good)

Their stories are all kind of bad and nothing particularly interesting there. They have side-quests but I don't think you need them in your party until you want to do those side quests, so you can fill your party with mercs and just do the companion quests when they come up.

None of them are built particularly well mechanically. If you're looking for the most powerful, I'd say Nok Nok because of knife master and the way sneak attack works in this game. Ekun is also good because animal companions are OP in this game. Linzi is great as a bard because of Inspire Competence which scales only on level, and she has good buff spells. Likewise Octavia is a Wizard and has access to some of the best spells in the game, although Transmution is a bad specialization and her low CON is annoying.

If you want to try to salvage others without the respec mod, consider building Valerie into 1 level of Thug and take the Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses feats and use her charisma to scare people. Give Amiri Two-Handed fighter levels and don't use her oversized sword she comes with because of the penalty to hit it has.

 

[Mangoose]

Question: Which (if any) are companions that are worth playing with? I'd like to know so I can build my merc corp to fill those slots in. And also useful to know who to play with. (From Youtube, Tristian's VA was pretty good)

Their stories are all kind of bad and nothing particularly interesting there. They have side-quests but I don't think you need them in your party until you want to do those side quests, so you can fill your party with mercs and just do the companion quests when they come up.

None of them are built particularly well mechanically. If you're looking for the most powerful, I'd say Nok Nok because of knife master and the way sneak attack works in this game. Ekun is also good because animal companions are OP in this game. Linzi is great as a bard because of Inspire Competence which scales only on level, and she has good buff spells. Likewise Octavia is a Wizard and has access to some of the best spells in the game, although Transmution is a bad specialization and her low CON is annoying.

If you want to try to salvage others without the respec mod, consider building Valerie into 1 level of Thug and take the Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses feats and use her charisma to scare people. Give Amiri Two-Handed fighter levels and don't use her oversized sword she comes with because of the penalty to hit it has.

Nah I got Valerie as a Slayer (Vanguard/Spawn Slayer). Was just curious about the personalities.

Edit: Yup. Gonna spread them large monster teamwork feats and then go CMB some dragons together lmfao

 

[Yosharian]

Question: Which (if any) are companions that are worth playing with? I'd like to know so I can build my merc corp to fill those slots in. And also useful to know who to play with. (From Youtube, Tristian's VA was pretty good)

Their stories are all kind of bad and nothing particularly interesting there. They have side-quests but I don't think you need them in your party until you want to do those side quests, so you can fill your party with mercs and just do the companion quests when they come up.

None of them are built particularly well mechanically. If you're looking for the most powerful, I'd say Nok Nok because of knife master and the way sneak attack works in this game. Ekun is also good because animal companions are OP in this game. Linzi is great as a bard because of Inspire Competence which scales only on level, and she has good buff spells. Likewise Octavia is a Wizard and has access to some of the best spells in the game, although Transmution is a bad specialization and her low CON is annoying.

If you want to try to salvage others without the respec mod, consider building Valerie into 1 level of Thug and take the Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses feats and use her charisma to scare people. Give Amiri Two-Handed fighter levels and don't use her oversized sword she comes with because of the penalty to hit it has.

Mostly correct.

 

[Yosharian]

Jubilost is by far the coolest companion. Just a shame he has sub-par Alchemist talent choices.

 

[Desiderius]

They’re all great and if you play with mercs you’re a complete and total retard and have gimped yourself massively.

There are four ways to go with Val that take better advantage of her stats and abilities than Slayer. Think CHR or CON.

Also The few Dragons there are are immune to Prone. I should probably let you discover that for yourself but I’m a nice guy.

You're right though about Kinnie being fun to puzzle out. At the end of the day probably more fun to get to use weapons but there's a lot to the class to keep your interest. The Twins are probably the strongest companion due to the swap out feature.

 

[Testownia]

Is it just me, or is Halcyon Druid ridiculously superior to every other available archetype? The modded version doesn't even have to wear the bonded mask.

 

[Haplo]

Here's some theorycrafting for those who like blaster casters...

I've made an interesting discovery, this bonus damage per dice rolled applies to the sneak attack dices too. For example, you have +3 damage per dice rolled and cast fireball for 10d6 spell damage + 6d6 sneak attack damage, your +3 damage bonus will give you 30 + 18 increase. When I was writing my initial post I completely forgot about Sharel's masterpiece - ambrosial attire of arcane annihilation, with all the right items and feats you can sit at +5 damage per dice rolled. So if you want to build a blaster caster there's literally no reason to go wizard, sorcerer reigns supreme once again.

Yes, a sorc does get a little more damage, but out of those +4-5 damage per dice, only 1-3 are unique to Sorc (1 if not modded). On the other hand, a Wiz will learn new, stronger spells faster, will reach the important AT capstone faster AND will have far better synergy with Trickster skill mastery.

So a sorc might be the damage top dog (not by a large margin), but arguably a Wiz AT will be more universal and serve his party better. Not to mention getting there sooner.

 

[Haplo]

Also The few Dragons there are are immune to Prone. I should probably let you discover that for yourself but I’m a nice guy.

Being immune to Prone doesn't protect them from being AoO'd when you execute the Combat Maneuver. At least it didn't before.

 

[Cael]

Here's some theorycrafting for those who like blaster casters...

I've made an interesting discovery, this bonus damage per dice rolled applies to the sneak attack dices too. For example, you have +3 damage per dice rolled and cast fireball for 10d6 spell damage + 6d6 sneak attack damage, your +3 damage bonus will give you 30 + 18 increase. When I was writing my initial post I completely forgot about Sharel's masterpiece - ambrosial attire of arcane annihilation, with all the right items and feats you can sit at +5 damage per dice rolled. So if you want to build a blaster caster there's literally no reason to go wizard, sorcerer reigns supreme once again.

Yes, a sorc does get a little more damage, but out of those +4-5 damage per dice, only 1-2 are unique to Sorc (1 if not modded). On the other hand, a Wiz will learn new, stronger spells faster, will reach the important AT capstone faster AND will have far better synergy with Trickster skill mastery.

So a sorc might be the damage top dog (not by a large margin), but arguably a Wiz AT will be more universal and serve his party better. Not to mention getting there sooner.

The deal with Sorcerer is not the actual damage but the ability to switch spells on the fly. As a blaster, you don't need to know that many spells to be effective. In a narrow focus like this, Sorcerers shine as they can devote all 6 spells per spell level per day (plus stat bonus) to the exact spell they need. A Wizard will have to hedge his bets and prepare copies of different spells for different enemies.

For example, both Sorcerer and Wizard know the fire and lightning version of Fireball. The Wizard has to anticipate what they will face, and memorises 2 of each (4/spell level/day limit). The Sorcerer doesn't give a shit and is always ready with his 6/spell level/day. They run into a Fire Salamander. Suddenly, the Wizard finds his effective firepower is halved. The Sorcerer just keep trucking on.

Wizards excel when you have time to prepare and tailor your spells to the situation you are facing. This means you need to know what is going to happen. In tabletop, that rarely happens as players tend to rush from one disaster to the next, usually of their own making. In a computer game, you can just save and reload. The only time I found Wizard to be better than Sorcerer in a computer game is if I want to craft everything in NWN/NWN2. Otherwise, Sorcerer beats Wizards hands down.

 

[Haplo]

Didn't really feel that way here. Thing is, some spells in Kingmaker are clearly better then others. And effective in 90% of the circumstances. As long as you stay away from Cold based spells, you should be okay. Also a Rod of Fiery Vengeance can change all your offensive spells to Fire. Scorching Ray, Volcanic Eruption and Stormbolts are strictly better then most blasting alternatives (on an AT).

 

[Yosharian]

Didn't really feel that way here. Thing is, some spells in Kingmaker are clearly better then others. And effective in 90% of the circumstances. As long as you stay away from Cold based spells, you should be okay. Also a Rod of Fiery Vengeance can change all your offensive spells to Fire. Scorching Ray, Volcanic Eruption and Stormbolts are strictly better then most blasting alternatives (on an AT).

That Rod ability, is it optional?

 

[Haplo]

Nope. If you equip the rod, it happens passively.

You can unequip it of course. But then your Evocation spells will have a 3 point lower DC...

 

[Yosharian]

Nope. If you equip the rod, it happens passively.

You can unequip it of course. But then your Evocation spells will have a 3 point lower DC...

Ah bugger

 

[Yosharian]

I was theorizing about an all-caster party for turn-based mode. No physical damage dealers at all.

1: Blaster Sorc-AT or Thassilonian-AT
2: Sorc summoner-controller
3: Druid summoner-nuker
4: Kineticist nuker
5: Cleric nuker
6: Alchemist bomber

Main concept is create a wall of cannon fodder then blast the shit out of enemies with spells. I thought it could be fun.

The AT needs people to be Shaken ideally in order to profit from Sneak dice throughout the fight, but I don't want to use a Bard. On the other hand maybe most fights won't last very long.

 

[Haplo]

Well, there are also (greater) invisibility spells and spell like abilities. And later, apart from Impromptu Sneak Attack, also Frightening Presence works well, if one of the casters can be closer to the enemies.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, there are also (greater) invisibility spells and spell like abilities. And later, apart from Impromptu Sneak Attack, also Frightening Presence works well, if one of the casters can be closer to the enemies.

Oh yeah I know about Frightening Presence, I just meant something for mid-game.

I hadn't thought about Greater Invisibility, that will do it I guess.

 

[Cael]

Didn't really feel that way here. Thing is, some spells in Kingmaker are clearly better then others. And effective in 90% of the circumstances. As long as you stay away from Cold based spells, you should be okay. Also a Rod of Fiery Vengeance can change all your offensive spells to Fire. Scorching Ray, Volcanic Eruption and Stormbolts are strictly better then most blasting alternatives (on an AT).

That is the main reason why cRPGs favour Sorcerers. The lesser number of useful spells plus the much more restricted ways you can use them (e.g., you can't use Stone to Mud to cause stalactites to fall on to the enemy, which you can in PnP) means Sorcerer tends to be better in cRPGs due to their greater number of casts per day and ability to switch on the fly.

 

[Haplo]

Not a better Trickster/skill monkey, though. Also less versatile at CC, buffing and such.

 

[Mangoose]

I was theorizing about an all-caster party for turn-based mode. No physical damage dealers at all.

1: Blaster Sorc-AT or Thassilonian-AT
2: Sorc summoner-controller
3: Druid summoner-nuker
4: Kineticist nuker
5: Cleric nuker
6: Alchemist bomber

Main concept is create a wall of cannon fodder then blast the shit out of enemies with spells. I thought it could be fun.

Very WWI loll