Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[frajaq]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

I acted as if I was making a party of 4 and enjoyed my play experience.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

Make sure you have someone with good perception. Think I made a fighter, divine type, and bard. Can't remember the 4th. Probably some sort of fighter/frontliner.

 

[Xamenos]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

Varn is a good rogue, but technically your superior and so occasionally has other shit to do than babysit you. Making a well-rounded 4-man party will come handy.

When I played through it, I went with a main Paladin, a Herald Caller of Erastil, a Bard and a Grenadier. Worked pretty well.

 

[Desiderius]

The companions it comes with are both a good challenge and can teach you some things you may have missed in the main game. I started my main as Divine Hunter Pal then went Bard from there and was happy with it.

 

[Sjukob]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

Note that I play with CoTW, so if you see unfamiliar classes, know that they are from CoTW mod.
Don't rely on Varn, he and Cephal leave you at some point, but Cephal does so in the very end, so you can rely on him for knowledge checks, but you should definitely have somebody besides Varn to open locks and handle other dex related checks. Generally speaking, you should build your 4 man group in such a way that they cover everything and are strong early, that's the main challenge, the DLC ends at level 8. PC should preferably be charismatic, because of the PC only persuasion checks. I very strongly recommend bringing alchemist with bombs, some enemies are just a bitch to kill unless you target their touch AC. The golem that guards lion's claw has something like 40 AC, magic immunity, DR 15/adamantite and you fight him around level 7-8, I honestly have no idea how to kill it without using bombs. Also, I strongly recommend bringing conjuration DC caster for stinking cloud spam, you will find tons of fey and wisps that ambush you, fuck dealing with that, stinking cloud shuts them completely, it will also prevent final boss from doing anything.

Here's what I would personally recommend:

1. Protagonist - conjuration sylvan sorc with leopard, smilodon takes too long to grow up;
2. Evangelist or ecclesitheurge of Erastil with community/animal domains, again pick leopard, because of the faster growth;
3. Tank - your preference, but non magical martials tend to struggle here, so I recommend taking something like sword saint or vivisectionist, can help with int related checks after Cephal leaves. Alternatively you can rely on your pets to tank and take whatever else you want instead;
4. Grenadier or bard. I've already explained why you want somebody with bombs and if you haven't grabbed evangelist, bard is too good of a support class to pass.

That's what got me through hard without major problems.

 

[Desiderius]

I honestly have no idea how to kill it

Use the Freebooter it comes with. I don’t understand why people are so allergic to companions.

All your ideas are straight out of InEffective or prior games where it may have made sense to roll your own but it doesn’t here.

You’ve got two different summoners for cannon fodder and to get flanking + outflank + freebooter’s bond, you put Bane on the Golem, decent chance of Archon’s, Good Hope from statue or Bard, Monk has True Strike etc...

You have yet to discover half the game because you insist on stupid shit like Stinking Cloud spam and making Reg a gimped Sorc instead of the dominant Scion they gift wrap for you.

 

[Sjukob]

Desiderius
Shoo, I'm not in a mood for your senile autism now, grandpa.

 

[Desiderius]

Without much spoilers, what kind of party I should be using in Varnhold if two of the slots are locked? Can Varn handle all the trickery checks or do I need some skill monkey?

He can’t handle them all.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius
Shoo, I'm not in a mood for your senile autism now, grandpa.

You’re the one speaking with the voice of authority when your advice is literally worse than taking the companions you’re given then autoleveling them.

So much arrogance with the ignorance. Where does it come from?

 

[Sjukob]

Desiderius
Shoo, I'm not in a mood for your senile autism now, grandpa.

You’re the one speaking with the voice of authority when your advice is literally worse than taking the companions you’re given then autoleveling them.

So much arrogance with the ignorance. Where does it come from?

And you tell people that they are dumb for trying to brute force the game, yet do the same when it comes to arguments.

Take it easy man. Want to hug?

 

[Desiderius]

No, it’s the same old bullshit over and over.

They give you a STR-based Freebooter and a summoning ranged Cleric with pet, two of the flat out strongest builds in the game and of course Monk with the Legendary Belt goes nuts too.

And here you’re telling people of course you have to merc it because companions suck. It’s just shitty advice and steers people the wrong way and you even admit yourself you have no idea how to scratch the golem but you never stop to think that you might be missing something.

It’s not brute force when you’re playing Xzar and Montaron for fuck sake but it’s better than whet you and InEffect are doing.

 

[frajaq]

PC should preferably be charismatic, because of the PC only persuasion checks. .

does that ties in to Dazzling Display stuff? Because I swear when I look up on builds online they ALWAYS speak about that, with dips in Thug and picking Shatter defenses stuff

 

[Sjukob]

does that ties in to Dazzling Display stuff? Because I swear when I look up on builds online they ALWAYS speak about that, with dips in Thug and picking Shatter defenses stuff

Personally, I would say that you should outright forget about dips in Varnhold's lot, you only go from level 5 to level 8 and in this scenario dips massively hamper your main class features and progression.

Shatter defenses is also way too feat expensive for such a short campaign, unless you are building a class with a big number of bonus feats, like fighter, but even then I would very carefully think about such an investment. In this scenario it's not really worth it, if you ask me.

Dazzling display might be ok for the charismatic supports that don't have anything better to do, but considering horrible action economy of dazzling display and generally increased difficulty of the DLC you better make sure that they actually have something better to do, like CCing, debuffing, off-tanking, attacking or anything else.

I had a good time rolling with thundercaller bard. He won't be able to stun the strongest foes, as their saves are just too high or they are outright immune to stuns, however thundercall will work fine against everything else.

 

[Desiderius]

As a full round action Dazzling can be a little clunky but on the other hand you get a lot of bang for the buck because Shaken sets up so much else and is a nice debuff on its own.

As an opener (from Stealth with or without Thug splash to upgrade the Shaken to Fear) the full round action problem isn’t a thing so that’s a solid play pattern. Shatter Defenses also requires Weapon Focus so that’s a substantial investment but you get substantial rewards. I think a couple of the companions start with Focus and if you play a Sword Saint main you can get it for free.

You can get a big chunk of EXP from a solo CHR skill check midway through so that’s also a reason people like CHR-based.

 

[Testownia]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

 

[Mangoose]

ffs Horic put the crappier version of the Lore Warden up.

This is the good one: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ghter-archetypes/lore-warden-pfs-field-guide/

This is the trap: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ter-archetypes/lore-warden-fighter-archetype/

 

[Mangoose]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

Horic lists on his mod page all the differences between his version and PNP. Cool guy

I don't see any changes to Occultist on the nexus page. It seems like Horic puts things in faithfully at first, adapting and balancing afterwards as needed (which is a rather... "brazen" method of design but if it works it works)

 

[Testownia]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

Horic lists on his mod page all the differences between his version and PNP. Cool guy

I don't see any changes to Occultist on the nexus page. It seems like Horic puts things in faithfully at first, adapting and balancing afterwards as needed (which is a rather... "brazen" method of design but if it works it works)

That's literally impossible in the case of the Occultist, hence me asking. If you have the game installed, can you check and tell me how he implemented this, for example?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ.../occult-classes/OCCULTIST/#Outside_Contact_Su

 

[Desiderius]

ffs Horic put the crappier version of the Lore Warden up.

This is the good one: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ghter-archetypes/lore-warden-pfs-field-guide/

This is the trap: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ter-archetypes/lore-warden-fighter-archetype/

Yes, it was very underwhelming. Could have been worse since stacking and and CM bonuses are hard to find in P:K but bonuses were just marginal until late.

Those look pretty similar. What would say the difference is?

 

[Desiderius]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

The Occulist version of Inquisitor seemed pretty interesting.

 

[InternalRevenue]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

Went through Varnhold with one last month, here were my impressions:

Currently going through Varnhold with a Spiritualist and Occultist. Occultist is... weird to say the least. The spells they have available kinda suck overall and some schools/implements don't even have spells at certain levels, but some of the focus powers are quite nice. Mine's got Transmutation, Abjuration, and Conjuration and overall it kinda feels like a weird weakish magus with support spells and arcanist exploits. I made him strength-focused with a two-handed weapon and he can enlarge himself with focus, cast lead blades, and use an expensive form of arcane enhancement for a big chunk of damage. The Spiritualist, as flavorful as it is just feels like a weaker, less versatile Summoner. I've got a despair phantom that doesn't do much damage despite investing in evolution feats but can inflict up to -4 to enemy saves with it's miserable strikes and aura. The Spiritualist herself can't do too much either; the class does get Animate Dead but unfortunately the CotW version is much more difficult to use effectively than vanilla. The spell list seems better than the Inquisitor's though.

In summary it's a weakish but decent class that doesn't really distinguish itself; HOWEVER I did not take the trappings of the warrior panopoly which boosts it's melee prowess significantly. And melee is where I believe Occultist is best used.

Also beware casting in melee, that psychic caster concentration tax hurts, and you don't want to have to waste a move action just to "center" yourself.

 

[Mangoose]

ffs Horic put the crappier version of the Lore Warden up.

This is the good one: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ghter-archetypes/lore-warden-pfs-field-guide/

This is the trap: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...ter-archetypes/lore-warden-fighter-archetype/

Yes, it was very underwhelming. Could have been worse since stacking and and CM bonuses are hard to find in P:K but bonuses were just marginal until late.

Those look pretty similar. What would say the difference is?

Oh, I mean that the one with the CMB bonuses was the better one. Specifically for those CMB bonuses and especially the CMD. (So, munchkiny stuff lol) I don't think you find much bonus to CMD.

 

[Testownia]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

The Occulist version of Inquisitor seemed pretty interesting.

No, I mean the class overall, since it has a lot of mechanics that seem ill-fitted to the game in terms of implementation.

 

[Desiderius]

Question for those currently playing - how's the Occultist class recently added in "Call of the Wild"? Which mechanics did Holic manage to implement, and how? I don't want to download 30GB just to check this one thing, honestly.

The Occulist version of Inquisitor seemed pretty interesting.

No, I mean the class overall, since it has a lot of mechanics that seem ill-fitted to the game in terms of implementation.

He's the master. I wouldn't doubt him. I mean I have and he jumped down my throat but I was right and he quietly corrected the problem but in general he's the best there's ever been.