Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[NJClaw]

Ok I'm new to this. I've played about with the game a few times for a few hours each session but now want to get in to it properly. I've been reading up a lot on party composition and have decided my main will be a tanky damage dealer. I'll be using Valerie, Amiri (respecced a bit) as main tank so want this guy to be able to off-tank but also put out some good damage up on the front line. I'll be using Amiri too so don't want a Barb. What classes do you think I should be looking at?

Anything can work (and work well), so it really comes down to what you want to play. An Alchemist (Vivisectionist), a Druid, a Fighter, a Magus, a Paladin, a Ranger, a Rogue, a Slayer, or, hell, even a Kineticist or a Bard. Clerics, Sorcerer, and Inquisitor could also work, because they come with an animal companion that's a good melee character on its own.

Personally, I'm a fan of Paladins, because when you click the Smite Evil button they become absolutely unbeatable.

 

[Tiger]

Ok thanks guys, a dex-based Sword Saint looks interesting, I'm only on challenging difficulty. I'll do some more reading up.

 

[Haplo]

Don't do that. Go Str based.
Or rather "hybrid". Dip 1 monk if you want to be the untouchable master tank.

 

[Tiger]

Don't do that. Go Str based.
Or rather "hybrid". Dip 1 monk if you want to be the untouchable master tank.

Thanks, was just reading up on Monks actually, they seem pretty good. Something like this scaled fist:

 

[Haplo]

Eh, servicable I guess?

I prefer Sword Saints:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...nd-strats-thread.124160/page-114#post-6121550

Or if you play real time and want multi-attack carnage, maybe this

 

[Desiderius]

A good core party is Bard, Freebooter (Amiri makes a good one), Alchemist (you get a good one in ch 2), and Cleric. Then you can sub in two more characters depending on the challenge.

If you like DEX-based melee a fun, thematic MC is Aldori Defender. You’ll find a serviceable Dueling Sword at the NW of Old Sycamore map where there’s a campfire you should not use.

 

[Haplo]

Generally I think I prefer a Kinetic Knight to an (non-vivisectionist) alchemist. Of course the latter can be more of a gamechanger/boss killer. And sharing certain personal spells is cool.

 

[Tiger]

Thanks guys. As this is my first proper run I've decided to keep things simple and just gone with a pure Paladin for MC. High STR and Cha using a 2 handed weapon. Once I've got to grips with the game I'll probably restart and look in to multi classing and respeccing the companions better. I come from years of Everquest where the Paladin is a decent tank but has no DPS at all apart from against undead, looks to be a much better class in this.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

If you're going to use a pure paladin, definitely go with the Hospitaler and get the Fatigue mercy. Build options will be limited due to being feat starved. Two-handed weapons are excellent well provided for in KM so don't rush into a specialization or improved critical. There is a lot to choose from.

 

[Desiderius]

Single-classing is better than it looks because so many abilities scale by class level. No class better to learn that by than Pally.

Second the Hospitaler recommendation. Mark of Justice is win more while the Death immunity is such a headache preventer, especially first time thru.

Divine Weapon Bond at min/lvl is the strength of your class (Though don’t sleep on the Veils or Greater Aura). Learn it, love it.

 

[Tiger]

The hospitaler would be enough party healing for challenging or would I still need a cleric?

 

[Desiderius]

Cleric brings some other things to the table like unique Domain Abilities, Shield of Faith, and Archon’s Aura then eventually some very good high level spells. You don’t really want to be healing during combat and there are a Ton of healing potions so the healing is convenient but not that big of a deal. The Easy Fatigue removal is a unique effect and a big timesaver.

 

[Technomancer]

Twin Crystals has Agile on it, though...

Now that I think about it, it's true that Twin-Bladed Sword can't be finessed. So why the fuck does it have that enchantment on it?

Obv for Sensei DEX build. Joking. I think.

Ugh. Well, I guess I'll pick something else for my Vivi. How annoying.

A year too late but it actually is the perfect weapon for vivi. The way they implemented agile is that it automatically gets finesse too. So you pretty much just stack all the DEX you can get and wreck shit with bullshit force damage. 16 vivi + 4 kensai allows you to maximize weapon rolls in addition. Nvm patched

 

[Serus]

I have another stupid question. I tried to test if you can have a bard-like support character that can tank like bard and doesn't suck. I tested Sensei and found some major bugs. Not surprising with monk in PK but those make the class a bit better. Basically it gets TWO attacks that he shouldn't have when unarmed. At high level a flurry monk can have 8 attacks. 4 base + 2 flurry + 1 for 1 ki + 1 haste. A sensei doesn't have flurry and the ki additional attack should work only with flurry. What remains are 5 attacks as any full AB class when hasted has. However my test unarmed sensei has 7 attacks. One from spending ki (works without flurry, not surprising though) and one more from... I have no idea. No special items, no nothing. Maybe i am missing something?

The answer to a bard-like tank build: better stick with bard. Sensei is not as bad as people make it - but still worse. Ultimately no mirror image makes him a worse tank and Sensei's ability to "cast" mass versions of a few spells is not enough to make for all the other things bard does.

 

[Desiderius]

WIS to AB is a unique effect. Since you also get WIS to AC and WIS to DC of abilities it’s a uniquely focused class.

The Advice and Mass Advice abilities also give unique (and valuable) things like Disease Immunity (see Ghost Mage) that no other class does so there’s really no comparison with any other class.

Your best bet with Sensei is utilizing the full BAB, WIS to hit, and True Strike to dominate the battlefield with CMBs. That way you don’t need to worry about trying to manufacture the kind of damage that other monks get via Flurry or Dragon Style.

Now that Bard can’t stack performances with Lingering you could even run it alongside a Bard using offensive songs.

 

[Serus]

Another small bug. This time makes Sensei a bit worse in certain configurations. One of his unique "things" is that he "may" use wisdom for his attack rolls, when unarmed, and for CMB. In case of attack rolls it is truly a "may", when STR (or DEX with finesse) is higher than WIS - the higher one is used. But the same doesn't apply in case of CMB! There it is always WIS. Which is annoying because later in game with buffs that adds to str (and/or the banal 1 level of viivisectionist) STR might potentially be higher (even if you max WIS) because there is less way to buff wisdom.
Well, I suppose that makes it even, additional attack that shouldn't be there vs worse trip (or other CMs) in certain builds.

 

[Desiderius]

You can’t be serious. A lvl of Vivi is actively awful. Why do people do this?

The banal thing is how enlarge effects work with STR, but it’s not that hard to just say no there and enjoy the easier pathing.

 

[Desiderius]

The whole point of going CMB is not caring about STR at all. You can even do the Nerd Commando 5 STR Halfling nonsense for Cautious Fighter if Crane Tank is your thing.

I built it with Pummeling Style instead because Pounce is such a unique ability and two free Trips is no joke, but you can just as easily build around Dirty Trick Blind with or without Crane.

Nobody else can give out Evasion. Mass Expeditious Retreat? If you use Charge you know how nuts that is beyond just being a great convenience and saving spell slots. Purity of Body (Disease Immunity) goes mass at 14 in time for Ghost Mage Plague Storms. Spit Venom is no Save Blind. Mass Barkskin is not only incredibly convenient if you take along Jub while freeing up 6 spell slots, since your caster level is class lvl (unlike Ranger) it lets you play without him with far less pain.

Mass Restoration? Like Mass Heal at lvl 10. Of Course Mass True Strike makes sure all other CMBs land so you can design a full party around them. All kinds of sweet unique greatness and you fools are gimping him the whole game for marginal chip damage early or feeling like you're gimping yourself if you don't.

 

[Desiderius]

Early game version:

Pummeling Style also gets DR bypass on iteratives:

Dirty Trick version early:

Stunning Blow:

 

[Serus]

You can’t be serious. A lvl of Vivi is actively awful. Why do people do this?

The banal thing is how enlarge effects work with STR, but it’s not that hard to just say no there and enjoy the easier pathing.

I said that there is a bug. And what it does. I said nothing about actual usefulness or lack of it of a vivisectionist in general or particular. Nor of a strength build for a sensei, when we are at it. However If someone wanted to make one, for one reason or another - be advised. DUH.

I made my test sensei with Pummeling as well. Two trip attempts is nice. And the rest is of the line is very good. We can agree on that. Besides not much good choices to be honest.
I made my Sensei human. (with str=7 if you wondered), sensei isn't rich in feats and you want to have the important feats asap. A few people underestimate an additional feat at level 1.
A propos underestimating, what makes Vivisectionist so bad for the right builds? Obviously you wont take it for casters or classes that need to reach certain levels fast but it's always a balance of pros and cons. The pros are interesting enough in this case to consider in some builds. Vivi isn't good for a trip focused Sensei tough, that much is true. Possibly to any sensei.
Sensei seems to add one more thing to the party that hasn't been mentioned: 1 additional attack for every party member at "great" cost of a free action and one ki point. On top of haste. I just discovered it. It works, I tested it. How that works is beyond me. This is seriously broken.

Who are the "you fools" you are talking to? Doesn't make one look sane if he talks to an empty room, you know.

 

[Haplo]

Vivi multiclassing is good. But 1 level Vivi dips are overrated. I would pick at least 4 and that seriously gimps main class progression (unless a Freebooter or something). 2 for a wizard - but 2nd at level 19/20.

 

[Yosharian]

So does the Sensei receive Flurry of Blows or not? You said there's a bug and they get an extra attack?

 

[Desiderius]

We’re all fools at one time or another. When it comes to 3.5 style builds you’ve got:

(1) InEffect fools who think they’re so obviously superior that they bully noobs into using them exclusively in the mistaken belief that they have to, thereby missing the heart of the design and a great deal of the fun and participating in a self-fulfilling prophecy re: game difficulty.

(2) sophisticated gamers who may have even single-classed in 3.5 but did so then and do so now in the (mistaken usually) belief that they’re gimping themselves in contrast to minmaxxers and munchkins who take all the fun out of the game.

(3) people who’ve usually spent some time in (1) and/or (2) who’ve had the experience of thinking “really sux that I don’t have access to random cool 10th lvl ability/uptick for Season or 12th for VTomb” or “wow good thing I didn’t splash or I wouldn’t have random cool ability in time” enough times that we get curious about the Pathfinder design philosophy and discover that they built it that way.

Sure there are exceptions, but fewer than everyone thinks.

 

[Desiderius]

Totally agree on Human because main downside of Sensei is losing bonus Feats and if you’re going Pummeling might as well go at least 12 STR because cost is so low and it’s always your damage stat. Crane version built around CMBs and spell-like abilities you could always dump but I rarely do so since rewards just aren’t there.

There’s a difference between a dump stat and a stat that you don’t have to care about too much so can avoid spending multiple creation pts on it. On that build I posted I had STR at 14 for +2 dam and easy Power Attack access, which cost 7 pts. It would cost another 7 just to get to 16.

What is a limitation for other Monk classes (wanting high STR and WIS/CHR) becomes a strength for Sensei because the only stat you really care about is WIS.

If you want to go really hardcore you can splash INQ for last three levels (after Courage maxxes out) to get WIS to initiative and Solo Tactics.

 

[Seari]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ky34mz/new_valerie_build_plus_bug/

I had to share this. Peak character building right here. "Good rp build"