Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

Still plugging away on my unfair playthrough. My MC Ranger is about to level to level 17. I'd like to stay as a pure ranger/archer, however, I don't know what feats to take. Right now, these are what I've narrowed it down to. I already have the +Persuasion skill, Shatter Defenses, and (all, I think?) archery feats:

• Critical focus: From what I've read, this doesn't seem that great, but it is a pre-requisite for some (seemingly better) debuffing crit feats I could take later.
• +3 Trickery Skill Buff: I hear there are some juicy trickery skill buffs late game, and my MC is currently my character with the highest trickery, although I could easily build Nok-Nok to be higher if I needed to.
• Improved Initiative: From what I've read, this seems relatively valuable. Am I wrong? My archer rarely (if ever) engages in melee, so I don't even bother with light armor on him as he never gets hit. So I don't know how important this is for pure ranged offense.
• Blind Fight: Again, everyone says that this is eventually really valuable, but I've read that it's more valuable for melee, and I usually throw that pure sight spell on my ranged fighters (does that have the same effect?). It also provides immunity to some spells I think, which may be valuable, but I can't recall which ones.

Crit Focus Feats are kind of win more if you're doing the kind of damage you should be doing at that point on Ranger, and Longbow doesn't have the widest crit radius in any case. Make sure to always keep Hurricane Bow, Ascpect of Falcon, and Sense Vitals up and use Legendary Proportions and Deadly Aim where you can (Improved Quarry helps with this a lot, as does Instant Enemy).

Improved Initiative is always great, especially in RTwP on Ranged since you can interrupt spells with damage. It won't be +3 Trickery at your level it will be +6. If Ranger is your highest Trickery you might need it. Ranger is natural fit for high Perception, Nature, and Stealth.

Blind Fight gives gaze immunity which is one solution to Wild Hunt/Defaced Sister gazes. I don't recall picking it up on Ranged characters. Echolocation now also gives Gaze Immunity I think.

Don't dip on Ranger - Improved Quarry is a Free Action and your fourth level spells are good. Master Hunter isn't very good since your DC won't be all that high and it's a Standard Action. Ranged is about using Longbow 50 ft Range to get Full Attacks.

 

[Sobenewbie]

I'm a very new player, I'm having a hard time finding a viable build for Gimar, you know the Sorcerer that is a playable main character. I am a roleplayers in these type of games, I play on easy settings and focus on the story aspects. Anyway, I wanted to use a caster for my MC, but I don't want to use the default. Well, I mean I want to create him from scratch, but all the dragon blood caster builds I've found seem to require a monk level or require lawful alignments or an aasimar. My backstory, yes I create a text backstory for all my characters when I start a game that takes weeks, or months to play. I really need a caster build that works with a Chaotic Good alignment and has dragon blood or uses fire magic of some kind. If there is anyone who has such a build, one that tells me level by level what to pick, I would appreciate it if you shared it with me. I am overwhelmed in character creation, too many options. Thanks for reading this.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm a very new player, I'm having a hard time finding a viable build for Gimar, you know the Sorcerer that is a playable main character. I am a roleplayers in these type of games, I play on easy settings and focus on the story aspects. Anyway, I wanted to use a caster for my MC, but I don't want to use the default. Well, I mean I want to create him from scratch, but all the dragon blood caster builds I've found seem to require a monk level or require lawful alignments or an aasimar. My backstory, yes I create a text backstory for all my characters when I start a game that takes weeks, or months to play. I really need a caster build that works with a Chaotic Good alignment and has dragon blood or uses fire magic of some kind. If there is anyone who has such a build, one that tells me level by level what to pick, I would appreciate it if you shared it with me. I am overwhelmed in character creation, too many options. Thanks for reading this.

Check my builds here and go to build 4, Hydromancer

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1528413526

You will have to adapt this build slightly but it is a beast at crowd control and is fairly powerful at nuking, too. Lategame you will delete packs of enemies with Weird.

Your other option is some kind of Trickster ray caster which someone else in the forum can probably help you with

 

[Sarathiour]

There is absolutly no reason to ever take a monk level if you're not trying to be some dragon disciple gish.
Also half-Elf is probably better for a sorcerer for the charisma bonus.
Spell specialization is also a good pick if you want to play a nuker.

 

[Yosharian]

There is absolutly no reason to ever take a monk level if you're not trying to be some dragon disciple gish.
Also half-Elf is probably better for a sorcerer for the charisma bonus.
Spell specialization is also a good pick if you want to play a nuker.

This is for Kingmaker, not Wrath. Half-Elf doesn't have the option to go 20+ CHA

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Half-Elf doesn't have the option to go 20+ CHA

Which is is a WOTR bug anyway. Kindred-raised HEs should get only +2 to CHA and +2 to a different ability score.

 

[Yosharian]

Anyway Spell Spec is a pretty good pick for your extra feat, agreed on that

 

[Desiderius]

Stay at range and use Demoralize/Daze early. You’ve got other companions to kill stuff. Play Sylvan Sorc if you want someone else in melee or Magus if you want to gish.

Don’t splash at all so your spells can develop (you’re already a level slower than Wizard). Good early Feats for Sorc are Point Blank/Precise Shot (for Rays), Improved Initiative, Spell Focus/Penetration.

 

[Stoned Ape]

As for starting race and attributes, you want to choose something with a Charisma bonus, or an attribute bonus you can put into charisma (so human, half-elf, half-orc, gnome, halfling, and some types of aasimar (angelkin, emberkin, idyllkin, musetouched, base aasimar) or tiefling (Beastbrood, Pitborn, Shackleborn, Spitespawn).

Strength can be either kept low or pushed higher if you like the idea of shapechanging (for example dragon form at higher levels).
Dexterity is generally useful if you want to fire rays and helps AC.
Constitution is also needed to some extent.
Intelligence can be left at a fairly low level.
Wisdom can be left low as well; you get pretty good will saves anyway.
Charisma I'd probably start with 19 here (17 base +2 for race modifier)

As you said you'd like to be a dragon blooded mage, I wouldn't neglect strength. I'd probably choose to play as either a human or an angel-blooded aasimar.

Starting attributes for a shape changing sorcerer:

STR: 14 (Aasimar: Angelkin gets +2)
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 17 (Aasimar: Angelkin gets +2, human chooses +2 here). Put all level up points here.

If you're going for dragon-blood, I'd choose one with fire or cold element for kingmaker, I think they have the best spell options.

Starting spells: Shield, Grease

Stating feats: Spell focus: Conjuration, Sorcerer Bonus: Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration (Human bonus feat: spell specialization: shield for extra duration. Swap the specialized spell as you gain better options.)
3rd/5th level: Spell Focus: Evocation/Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
7th-7th (sorcerer bonus): Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration
9th level: Allied Spellcaster (pick this on as many casting companions as possible and try to keep at least 2 of them near your character)
11th: Elemental Focus (whatever goes with your dragon type)
13th: Greater Elemental Focus, Sorcerer Bonus: Spell Focus: Illusion
15th: Greater Spell Focus Illusion (there are some really good higher level illusion spells)
17th, 19th, 19th (bonus): Really whatever you like. Could get some +save feats (Fortitude or Will saves are always good to boost), could get some metamagic (although I don't really like it on Sorcerers; I prefer to use metamagic rods for them), could get spell specialization if you went for an aasimar (although it's probably too late to be really useful). Blind Fight is also a good option once you get to higher levels to protect from gaze attacks.

As you level up, you want to choose conjuration spells, evocation spells (especially ones that fit your dragon's element), and illusion spells.

Spells I think you should probably pick up: enlarge person (to cast on companions), magic missile, create pit, mirror image, web, haste, stinking cloud (make sure your divine caster gets delay poison: communial so you don't hit your companions with it), slow, improved invisibility, icy prison (especially if cold element), phantasmal web, hungry pit, chains of light, dispel magic: greater, heroism: greater, phantasmal putrification, sirocco (especially if fire element), True Seeing, Legendary Proportions, Frightful Aspect, Seamantle, Mindblank: Communal, Weird.

 

[Desiderius]

I am overwhelmed in character creation, too many options.

Everybody is at first. I still am if I haven't played for awhile. But as you play and learn you start to look for things to fix certain problems your team is having and it gets a lot easier to choose.

Dive in with the help of initial advice but improve on it with your own experience. That's the fun of the game.

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah, I would also think about taking blind fight upon reaching chapter 5 (ie Pitax) to save me the headache later on.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, I would also think about taking blind fight upon reaching chapter 5 (ie Pitax) to save me the headache later on.

Dragon Blood doesn't necessarily mean Dragonform. If he's not planning to be in melee it may be less of a concern. I think they fixed Echolocation to also give Gaze Immunity as well and I can't remember now but I think (long-lasting) Freedom of Movement is also a more general solution.

 

[Haplo]

Freedom can dispelled though (unless its from an item).

 

[Desiderius]

Freedom can dispelled though (unless its from an item).

Is there much Dispel in P:K?

 

[Yosharian]

Ring of Chaos grants permanent FoM

 

[Yosharian]

Also: win initiative, cast Weird = no dispels

 

[Haplo]

Freedom can dispelled though (unless its from an item).

Is there much Dispel in P:K?

Well, I remember the Ghastly Guardians being pretty annoying with Dispelling Strikes.
Of course it is also possible to nuke them to oblivion before they engage...

Think a Monarch can cast a Greater Dispell too... but that wasn't as frequent.

 

[Sarathiour]

Sure, you can flex and go trough the house without a single toon with blind fight, but from a beginner's perspective, it's pretty cool "I'm not dealing with this bullshit button".

 

[Desiderius]

I’m just saying Blind Fight is reasonably good on melee (the ones in danger from Dispelling Strikes) for the main effect already then Ranged is either out of range of the Gaze or has access to other solutions since the main effect is less necessary.

Blind Fight’s a good pick up for Womb for melee before some of those other solutions are available as well. By the time you hit House you’ve got plenty of slots to just cast them or pick up Tremorsense or whatnot.

Tristian’s Blind already.

 

[Sobenewbie]

As for starting race and attributes, you want to choose something with a Charisma bonus, or an attribute bonus you can put into charisma (so human, half-elf, half-orc, gnome, halfling, and some types of aasimar (angelkin, emberkin, idyllkin, musetouched, base aasimar) or tiefling (Beastbrood, Pitborn, Shackleborn, Spitespawn).

Strength can be either kept low or pushed higher if you like the idea of shapechanging (for example dragon form at higher levels).
Dexterity is generally useful if you want to fire rays and helps AC.
Constitution is also needed to some extent.
Intelligence can be left at a fairly low level.
Wisdom can be left low as well; you get pretty good will saves anyway.
Charisma I'd probably start with 19 here (17 base +2 for race modifier)

As you said you'd like to be a dragon blooded mage, I wouldn't neglect strength. I'd probably choose to play as either a human or an angel-blooded aasimar.

Starting attributes for a shape changing sorcerer:

STR: 14 (Aasimar: Angelkin gets +2)
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 17 (Aasimar: Angelkin gets +2, human chooses +2 here). Put all level up points here.

If you're going for dragon-blood, I'd choose one with fire or cold element for kingmaker, I think they have the best spell options.

Starting spells: Shield, Grease

Stating feats: Spell focus: Conjuration, Sorcerer Bonus: Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration (Human bonus feat: spell specialization: shield for extra duration. Swap the specialized spell as you gain better options.)
3rd/5th level: Spell Focus: Evocation/Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
7th-7th (sorcerer bonus): Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration
9th level: Allied Spellcaster (pick this on as many casting companions as possible and try to keep at least 2 of them near your character)
11th: Elemental Focus (whatever goes with your dragon type)
13th: Greater Elemental Focus, Sorcerer Bonus: Spell Focus: Illusion
15th: Greater Spell Focus Illusion (there are some really good higher level illusion spells)
17th, 19th, 19th (bonus): Really whatever you like. Could get some +save feats (Fortitude or Will saves are always good to boost), could get some metamagic (although I don't really like it on Sorcerers; I prefer to use metamagic rods for them), could get spell specialization if you went for an aasimar (although it's probably too late to be really useful). Blind Fight is also a good option once you get to higher levels to protect from gaze attacks.

As you level up, you want to choose conjuration spells, evocation spells (especially ones that fit your dragon's element), and illusion spells.

Spells I think you should probably pick up: enlarge person (to cast on companions), magic missile, create pit, mirror image, web, haste, stinking cloud (make sure your divine caster gets delay poison: communial so you don't hit your companions with it), slow, improved invisibility, icy prison (especially if cold element), phantasmal web, hungry pit, chains of light, dispel magic: greater, heroism: greater, phantasmal putrification, sirocco (especially if fire element), True Seeing, Legendary Proportions, Frightful Aspect, Seamantle, Mindblank: Communal, Weird.

Thank you!!!!!!

 

[Sobenewbie]

I'm a very new player, I'm having a hard time finding a viable build for Gimar, you know the Sorcerer that is a playable main character. I am a roleplayers in these type of games, I play on easy settings and focus on the story aspects. Anyway, I wanted to use a caster for my MC, but I don't want to use the default. Well, I mean I want to create him from scratch, but all the dragon blood caster builds I've found seem to require a monk level or require lawful alignments or an aasimar. My backstory, yes I create a text backstory for all my characters when I start a game that takes weeks, or months to play. I really need a caster build that works with a Chaotic Good alignment and has dragon blood or uses fire magic of some kind. If there is anyone who has such a build, one that tells me level by level what to pick, I would appreciate it if you shared it with me. I am overwhelmed in character creation, too many options. Thanks for reading this.

Check my builds here and go to build 4, Hydromancer

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1528413526

You will have to adapt this build slightly but it is a beast at crowd control and is fairly powerful at nuking, too. Lategame you will delete packs of enemies with Weird.

Your other option is some kind of Trickster ray caster which someone else in the forum can probably help you with

Yes, I have your page in my bookmarks already, thank you. I assume I can go for fire elemental instead of cold to give it a dragon flavor, thanks!

 

[Yosharian]

You could, but Icy Prison is a staple of the build, there is no fire version of it. Going for Draconic bloodline instead of Arcane will cost you 2 DC, but boost your damage dice a bit.

Once you get Rod of Flaming Vengeance, all your nuke damage will be fire anyway regardless of spell, but overall you will definitely be losing DC every time you deviate from the selections made in the build.

Which is perfectly fine if you're playing on a lower difficulty, or are willing to sacrifice DC for flavor. The choice is yours.

Perhaps you could go for some kind of 'fire + ice' dual element theme, if it suited you.

 

[Sobenewbie]

Thanks for the explanation, what I know about how feats etc. work and which are powerful or not is limited. I really don't want to water down your build too much though. I notice a lot of the builds I find use Aasimar for the racial bonus. How important is that? I know they have a heratage path other races don't, is that a huge loss if you play another race in a build, in general I mean?

 

[Yosharian]

Race is mostly irrelevant for a DC caster, Gnome has a slight advantage because they get +1 DC to Weird

 

[Desiderius]

Race is mostly irrelevant for a DC caster, Gnome has a slight advantage because they get +1 DC to Weird

Elf gets Spell Pen… for the price of a Feat that you could spend on Spell Pen.

Gnome bonus is to all Illusion spells and there are some good ones midgame, not just Weird.