Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Shadenuat]

How do you guys circumvent fighter's abysmal will saves situation?

Dorf, steel soul, x2 Iron Will, Cloak of Resistance

There is also that paladin/cleric spell that adds Good creature's Charisma to their Saves. Mind Blank is high level and sadly is a Resistance too.

 

[Haplo]

Well, you do get full BAB. And you get Favored Enemy bonuses vs several races. Both the companion and freebooter bonuses are pretty great additions.

 

[Haplo]

Well, my Strength Vivi does have sneak dice. And Greater Trip. At level 17 should have about 38 CMB or about 48 when fully buffed (legendary proportions, transformation). With Tandem Trip will also get to reroll trip failures.

Also plan to get Seize the Moment at level 15 and pair him with Jaethal or Nok-Nok for Tandem Tripping and free hits on crits.

The problem with sneak dice is that you need to make *multiple attacks per round* that all have reasonable chance to hit. True strike is the way to make that happen and so is ironically, smite evil.

Well, -4 AC from Prone should help also. Or Shatter Defenses if you go Cha/Intimidate route.
Also aren't all AoOs made with full AB?

 

[vazha]

How do you guys circumvent fighter's abysmal will saves situation?

Dorf, steel soul, x2 Iron Will, Cloak of Resistance

There is also that paladin/cleric spell that adds Good creature's Charisma to their Saves. Mind Blank is high level and sadly is a Resistance too.

I mean characters on their own, not via help of clerics (also that pally spell actually requires the said fighter to have adequate charisma, which would mean spending stat points on it, especially if you're a dwarf) and wizard buffs. On his own, a dwarf fighter with all will feats & uber tier equipment and let's say, 14 Wisdom (there is no way in the world you'd want it that high on a fighter but still) would clock up at what, 20-22 will saves maximum at lvl 16 right? End game fey stuff has DC above thirty or so. Half of the time you'd spend being paralyzed. That's why the Pally/Monk dip make a huge difference. All of a sudden, you have great incentive to go all in into charisma and dump wis. You'll end up at 30 will saves.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can reach 30-32 as fighter with correct equipment. Also if you all hug each other that's another +4 for team feat.

Problem is, Wild Gaze is not Spell-Like ability or Mind-Affecting, so +4 bonus from Dwarf doesn't work, +4 bonus from something like Sword against mind affecting (there is one) doesn't work; and since they programmed it all incorrectly you can still roll 1 easy due to massive amount of procs from that ability. In the end, Freedom of Action from spell or item is your best pick there. You only want someone with high Will for final fight to re-buff, and it won't be a fighter.

characters on their own

Noone is on their own in a party

 

[Shadenuat]

I love how any time I try to test something I roll 1.

Anyway, here's Gimli, Son of Gloin. All he knows is how to use his ax. Total Will (against spells) +32 on level 17, with starting Wisdom of 14.

Spoiler

We can also make him Good to use that 16 Charisma from item, for extra +3 from friendly Paladin, and make everyone happy friends with Team Feat and hug each other all the time for additional max of +4, but that's just too annoying, so let's say only 3 front liners would have it so +2.

 

[razvedchiki]

In terms of aligment which one of the good ones is best for kingdom management?lawful good?
Thinking of restarting as a hospitalier,prob 1 handed and shield.

 

[vazha]

You can reach 30-32 as fighter with correct equipment. Also if you all hug each other that's another +4 for team feat.

Problem is, Wild Gaze is not Spell-Like ability or Mind-Affecting, so +4 bonus from Dwarf doesn't work, +4 bonus from something like Sword against mind affecting (there is one) doesn't work; and since they programmed it all incorrectly you can still roll 1 easy due to massive amount of procs from that ability. In the end, Freedom of Action from spell or item is your best pick there. You only want someone with high Will for final fight to re-buff, and it won't be a fighter.

characters on their own

Noone is on their own in a party

Are you telling me I'm working my ass off have every save above 30 only to discover that it does nothing against fey? What the fucking kind of mechanics is that?

 

[Shadenuat]

Flat Will bonus works. Paladin can shrug them off just fine (unless of course he rolls 1). Just that not all bonuses of other type work.

 

[vazha]

Flat Will bonus works. Paladin can shrug them off just fine (unless of course he rolls 1). Just that not all bonuses of other type work.

items?

 

[Shadenuat]

If they give Will or Saving Throws, sure. But for example, a Sword with +4 against Mind Affecting doesn't work against Wild Gaze. I don't know if that is intended or not. Maybe it is correct because Wild Gaze is Supernatural.

Spoiler

Table 16–1: Special Ability Types
Extraordinary Spell-Like Supernatural
Dispel No Yes No
Spell resistance No Yes No
Antimagic field No Yes Yes
Attack of opportunity No Yes No

Dispel: Can dispel magic and similar spells dispel the effects of
abilities of that type?
Spell Resistance: Does spell resistance protect a creature from
these abilities?
Antimagic Field: Does an antimagic field or similar magic
suppress the ability?
Attack of Opportunity: Does using the ability provoke attacks
of opportunity the way that casting a spell does?

So SR also should do nothing, and indeed does nothing in game.

 

[vazha]

Well, I've got 39/31/34 so I guess I will be fine then.

 

[hell bovine]

Just use the respec mod.

I'm afraid that's going to break shit, plus I'm having fun trying to build a character even though it ends up being shit . Of course, since the party is almost all mercenaries, I could just remake the lot of them.

Just make a grenadier & team up with Jubilost. Bombs are against touch ac.

Spoiler

 

[Yosharian]

How do you guys circumvent fighter's abysmal will saves situation?

Don't be a Fighter?

 

[Sheepherder]

I've recently found a pair of gloves which add d6 acid damage each time a character strikes someone in melee. The bonus damage is added separately from the attack, thus allowing classes with sneak attack to add SA to the acid damage. As a result everything fucking melts. I'm not sure SA is supposed to work like this.
I've got two chars with opportunist and outflank, both using high crit range weapons. Monsters die as soon as I click them.

 

[Cael]

I've recently found a pair of gloves which add d6 acid damage each time a character strikes someone in melee. The bonus damage is added separately from the attack, thus allowing classes with sneak attack to add SA to the acid damage. As a result everything fucking melts. I'm not sure SA is supposed to work like this.
I've got two chars with opportunist and outflank, both using high crit range weapons. Monsters die as soon as I click them.

No. It is explicitly stated that SA is only added to the base attack. IF the base attack is acid (e.g., Acid Splash), then SA damage is acid. If the base damage is physical, then the SA damage is physical. Extra damage from other sources do not trigger SA damage themselves. Things like flaming weapons and the like were explicitly mentioned.

But, if you listen to the fanbois around here, "That is not a bug! It's a feature!"

 

[vazha]

I've recently found a pair of gloves which add d6 acid damage each time a character strikes someone in melee. The bonus damage is added separately from the attack, thus allowing classes with sneak attack to add SA to the acid damage. As a result everything fucking melts. I'm not sure SA is supposed to work like this.
I've got two chars with opportunist and outflank, both using high crit range weapons. Monsters die as soon as I click them.

If you mean Alkali gloves it just ads a 1d6 sneak attack dice to flanked opponents. Not too shabby, but not overpowered either.

 

[panda]

I've recently found a pair of gloves which add d6 acid damage each time a character strikes someone in melee. The bonus damage is added separately from the attack, thus allowing classes with sneak attack to add SA to the acid damage. As a result everything fucking melts. I'm not sure SA is supposed to work like this.
I've got two chars with opportunist and outflank, both using high crit range weapons. Monsters die as soon as I click them.

Yeah, it is on par with multiple ray sneak attacks power wise.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, the sneak attack implementation, particularly the multi sneak attack from rays or certain weapons/items with bonus damage dice, is really sad. Even sadder when some people try to argue its okay.

The flanking is wrong too, but maybe an acceptable compromise for a real time computer game. Though I think ranged sneaks are way too easy indeed.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You're only jelly of my knifemaster. Noobs.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, the sneak attack implementation, particularly the multi sneak attack from rays or certain weapons/items with bonus damage dice, is really sad. Even sadder when some people try to argue its okay.

You know what's not okay? That they depowered some of the best spells in the game and buffed up all the monsters.

Depowered compared with what? Pathfinder ruleset? Frankly some spells seems pretty OP to me (hint: Greater Shout).

 

[Lambach]

Frankly some spells seems pretty OP to me (hint: Greater Shout).

Nah, that would be Sirocco. On my current playthrough, I'll buy myself a mercenary Wizard that will be built solely around that spell once I hit level 11. Sick, sick stuff and only a small handful of enemies are completely immune to it.

 

[panda]

The flanking is wrong too, but maybe an acceptable compromise for a real time computer game.

Nah, Alkali gloves is not about flanking. It is about plain doubling your sneak attack damage. You deal +7d6? Equip alkali gloves and suddenly you have +15d6.

It is a level 8 spell. By that level, I can get *wishes* from trapped genies and teleport around the world map. There is nothing OP about a limited stun and damage.

There is a specialized stun spell called Power Word Stun. Now compare it to Greater Shout. Yeah, nothing OP at all.

 

[Yosharian]

Greater Shout is utterly broken. Sirocco is too, but it's working as intended so nothing can be done about that really.

 

[Tacgnol]

I've recently found a pair of gloves which add d6 acid damage each time a character strikes someone in melee. The bonus damage is added separately from the attack, thus allowing classes with sneak attack to add SA to the acid damage. As a result everything fucking melts. I'm not sure SA is supposed to work like this.
I've got two chars with opportunist and outflank, both using high crit range weapons. Monsters die as soon as I click them.

Sneak attack damage normally gets added to each attack, not each source of bonus damage. That does indeed sound wrong.