Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

Yes, Slashing Grace (using a scimitar). Or you could use and Agile Dueling Sword or Rapier. Well, the damage does feel a little underwhelming so far (was playing a Str Vivisectionist before...), but can nova a little with touch spells and I hope that once I'm able to provide higher weapon enchantments, those little pluses will start to add up (like 2x +d6 elemental and also Keen).
On the upside, I like the AC & Mirror Image a lot. And since apprently a lot of end game enemies use touch attacks, it should be even better then.
Later on I will also add Int to damage vs most enemies, so will benefit from increasing both Dex and Int. Plus Greater Weapon Spec for another +4, Aracane Strike another +4, MAYBE Piranha Strike. Hope to eventually have a weapon that effectively will be:
+7 weapon with +2d6 bane+d6frost+d6shock+d6fire+d6acid. Or simply a +7 +2d6 bane Brilliant Energy blade (ignores armor and shield) on top of whatever other enchantments it had (Mageblade, shock, thunder?).

 

[Curratum]

As a semi-casual D&D enthusiast who doesn't like to worry over skill picks and feats for hours, is this game playable if you lower the difficulty and just grab what seems to make sense on each levelup, and still complete it?

80 pages of builds scares me.

 

[Haplo]

Probably playable... but you'd really benefit from having at least a look at the feats unavailable to you and their requirements (uncheck "Hide unavailable" in feat selection menu).
Be warned that it IS a pretty long list.

 

[Curratum]

Fair enough, you want to see the end of the feat chain, I imagine. I just worry if it will accommodate a more casual playstyle. I always played Baldur a notch under core rules... ¬¬

 

[Sarkile]

I think you would probably be fine as long as you were willing to lower the difficulty some. I tend to play on Challenging, but with the monster strength reduced to normal and don't really need to optimize much.

 

[Haplo]

Well, basic tactics are fairly simple. Try to always focus 2 melees on 1 enemy (which constitutes flanking here) for +2 Attack and free sneaks all day long. Also from ranged characters/ranged touch spell wielders (unlimited cantrips count). Sneak attacks are damn powerful in this game.
Get Outflank for all melees ASAP (needs 4 BAB, so level 5 for martials - unless you get a feat at 4 - level 7 for 3/4 BAB classes).
DPS characters (like Amiri), should be Enlarged with a spell and attack from behind tanky character's back whenever possible.

For ranged characters (and ranged touch spell wielders, like Octavia, who should become an Arcane Trickster ASAP) get Point Blank -> Precise Shot ASAP to avoid the hefty penalty of -4 Attack for shooting into melee (and you should mostly shoot targets flanked by your melees).

Also early on the Conjuration spells are godly: Grease, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud, Web trivialize most encounters. Use them as you see fit (be warned that web can be super-annoying).

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Yes, Slashing Grace (using a scimitar). Or you could use and Agile Dueling Sword or Rapier. Well, the damage does feel a little underwhelming so far (was playing a Str Vivisectionist before...), but can Nova a little with touch spells and I hope that once I'm able to provide higher weapon enchantments, those little pluses will start to add up (like 2x +d6 elemental and also Keen).
On the upside, I like the AC & Mirror Image a lot. And since apprently a lot of end game enemies use touch attacks, it should be even better then.
Later on I will also add Int to damage vs most enemies, so will benefit from increasing both Dex and Int. Plus Greater Weapon Spec for another +4, Aracane Strike another +4, MAYBE Piranha Strike. Hope to eventually have a weapon that will effectively be:
+7 weapon with +2d6 bane+d6frost+d6shock+d6fire+d6acid. Or simply a +7 +2d6 bane Brilliant Energy blade (ignores armor and shield) on top of whatever other enchantments it had (Mageblade, shock, thunder?).

The problem is that this build starts to shine *very* late, and I mean after level 10. Until then the game can be a nightmare. Also, casting defensively for a magus is another issue as he is not focused on the casting stat too much. For a level 1 magus to succeed on casting touch of fatigue, a cantrip, without AoO the DC is 15. Your roll is d20+1 (caster level) + INT bonus, which is optimistically 3. So you need an optimistic 11 at level 1 *consistently* to not provoke AoOs from all enemies around you. No matter how high your AC, the bloated AB of the enemies will hit you and you *will* go down. This is the primary way to lose mirror images. So I think a systematic non-spellcasting damage source is necessary.

 

[Haplo]

Well, I don't provoke so many AoOs now. I guess it helps that I charge after Valerie got the attention of most enemies. And with Mage Armor, Shield, Int-to AC, Wis-boosted AC and Crane Style, most enemies are free to whiff their Attacks of Opportunity (play on Challenging). With Mirror Images those hits will be even less.

 

[Haplo]

Nothing in the Crane Style description suggests that it doesn't. I am not sure about Crane Wing bonus, used to work, but am not sure if it was changed or not. It no longer works for weapon & shield users. But if it does not, Crane Style is still +1 AC while fighting defensively and 2 AB penalty less. Changes this mode from nasty -4AB/+3AC (with 3 Mobility) to -2AB/+4AC. Worthwhile for me (especially that I will also get up to another +6 AC from Wisdom).

 

[Haplo]

Yes but... I want to wear stat boosting helmets. Eventually +8 Int and +8 Wisdom will be +8 AC, +4 damage, +4 Will, 4 extra Arcane Pool, extra spells and DCs.

 

[Haplo]

In this case, I don't think I have a spare feat for that

For now its okay, enemies have great trouble hitting my char.

I think I have a buffed AC of 35 now at level 4. 37 with Reduce Person.
But shortly it should be about 40 when +2 AC / +4 stat items come online in act 2 (42 with RP). Plus I'll have MI & Blur. Afterwards also Displacement for tougher fights and so on.

Of course its possible to optimize more: Cast Armor of Faith for another +1 Deflection, Barkskin for another +1 Natural, but usually its hardly necessary.

Then you start finding better bracers of armor and have cleric cast Magic Vestment on top.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think you would probably be fine as long as you were willing to lower the difficulty some. I tend to play on Challenging, but with the monster strength reduced to normal and don't really need to optimize much.

That is no longer Challenging since the biggest advantage of enemies getting +2 to all rolls is removed. That is normal difficulty with enemy damage multiplier being x1 instead od x0.8

 

[Sarkile]

Okay, I'm not one of those weird assholes who has to brag online about playing the game solo ironman on max difficulty. I select the Challenging difficulty and change the one setting that I want changed to bring it as close to a core gameplay experience as I can with what Owlcat's provided. I would have to change five settings from normal to get where I want, including increasing monster strength to normal.

 

[Elex]

I think you would probably be fine as long as you were willing to lower the difficulty some. I tend to play on Challenging, but with the monster strength reduced to normal and don't really need to optimize much.

That is no longer Challenging since the biggest advantage of enemies getting +2 to all rolls is removed. That is normal difficulty with enemy damage multiplier being x1 instead od x0.8

and full crtis

 

[Shadenuat]

45 DC Weird
46 DC Sirocco (Greater Shadow Evocation)

 

[Cael]

45 DC Weird
46 DC Sirocco (Greater Shadow Evocation)

The heck-? Looks good on the left and turns into a circus clown on the actual inventory screen. Owlcat is definitely laughing up their sleeves at their soylaced fanbois.

 

[Yosharian]

on the other hand you cant wear any of those nice end game armors.
first round (when flat footed) you are very vulnerable

You COULD get Uncanny Dodge from some other class (Rogue, Defender, even Barbarian if not lawful), but I don't think its worth the loss of high level abilities, enchantments such as Brilliant Energy and spells.
You do get to add your Int to your Initiative. You could even go crazy and pick Improved Initiative along with it. You'd rarely loose the Initiative game then, I imagine.

As for the armor, if Lawful Good, he can wear +5 Dodge robes.... along with +8 Bracers and potentially +5 Magic Vestment enhancement. What more armor do you want?

You could use the foresight spell. Endgame only, though, since it's level 9 (wizards and druids):

SHIT. BRB respeccing my Enchanter

 

[Yosharian]

What level range do you start encountering those mobs that use those nasty arrow attacks? Thinking of taking Deflect Arrows later in the build specifically to counter those guys (a little, anyway)

 

[Shadenuat]

level 16+

 

[Yosharian]

level 16+

Cool, thanks

 

[Haplo]

Cleared Act I in less then 30 days, got the reward dueling blade. Nice, sold it for extra cash.

First thing I did in Act 2 was visit Silverlake Village. Encountered a Roc underway... ugh... needed a reload.

But clearing the village at level 5 felt pretty good. The Nereids were terrible, though. Perma-mesmerizing half of my party. And a festival of misses on them. Good thing they only did 1 damage by themselves.

Got the Slicer. Nice to start Act 2 with a +2 weapon. Actually +4 with Mageblade effect - half the time for now. My Sword Saint is starting to come together. Getting x3 scimitar crits along shocking grasp/frigid touch in important fights is nice. Face tanking the undead cyclops at level 5 felt really good. But I did need to reload and rest to recover Mirror Image first.
Will be even better in combat on next level, when he'll be able to buff with Keen and elemental effects plus Arcane Strike.

 

[Haplo]

If its not backed by solid AC, it won't last long in a tanking position. I consider it more of a buffer when the enemy gets nasty rolls. The dread zombie cyclops was the only enemy I really needed it for in that area (and he could 1-2 shot my main char, doing 40 damage hits and 120 damage crits). I could tank the Greater Tatzlwyrms and other monsters there just fine at level 5 without Mirror Image.

Plus you don't sacrifice that much damage by going Dex. If you use spell combat, you don't get the x1,5 Strenght damage multiplier. With a Sword Saint you stack a lot of damage sources: Dex, weapon enchantments, arcane strike, eventually Weapon Specialization&Greater, eventually Int to damage.

You only really benefit from high Strength end-game with Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, when you forget about spell combat and just go nuts two-handed. But I'm really not convinced it's worth giving up ~20 AC.

 

[Haplo]

Well, I don't see a big difference spellwise between a Sword Saint and an Eldiritch Scion. Sure, the Saint will have 1 spell slot less per level (and less initial spell slots on new levels), but that hardly makes or breaks a character. He'll end up with 5 slots per level anyway (plus Int bonus). Now if you compare with a traditional Magus with (Improved) Spell Recall, that character really does leave both the Scion and the Saint in the dust spell-wise, easily doubling the number of his low-level spells (and choosing what he needs on-the-fly).

That's why I'd rather not choose the Scion. The Bloodlines are cool, but IMO have nothing on either the traditional Magus spellcasting with Improved Spell Recall or Sword Saint defenses (and crits). Guess with the Dragon or Abyssal Bloodlines you can build a nice Strenght-focused character - who will mostly skip Spell Combat in favor of a two-hander though. Question whether that will be better then a Sorceror/Eldiritch Knight/Dragon Disciple/Scaled Fist/Paladin multiclass. The latter will certainly be a better caster.

Also one of us seems not to understand the Spell Strike mechanics. My understanding is that Spell Strike is used to deliver the spell you cast with your weapon. When you use Spell Combat and perform a full attack action, Spell Strike is used to deliver the spell immediately after casting it with Spell Combat and before your main iterative attacks (therefore it is a free additional melee attack with Spell Combat). Without Spell Combat you can still use Spell Strike to deliver your spells with your weapons, but then you're sacrificing your attacks for that round - you either cast (and swing once, if its a touch spell) OR full attack (and don't cast - you can deliver a previously pre-cast or missed touch spell). With Spell Combat you get to do both in the same round.

 

[Haplo]

With Spell Combat it's spell, spell strike and full attack (up to 3 attacks, 4 with haste), all in a single round. At -2 AB.

And Sword Saint with 14+ int gets 4 level 2 slots at level 6.

 

[Haplo]

Thing is, with 40-50 AC at that level I don't need to have Mirror Image all the time.

And with Spell Combat a Strength Scion eventually won't really do more damage. He has like 3 point advantage (with Abyssal Bloodline). Before we factor Saints Int damage bonus and Greater Specialization that is.

With two handed, Legendary Proportions, Transformation and power attack the Scion can pull ahead - but with less attacks. Plus that's a rather end game scenario (where AC tends to matter even more).