Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

Yeah good luck with that. Use your allies to protect you with spells, or expect to get mind-controlled.

Those are not mutually exclusive. But I mean, lets say you get a few Will save points from levels as a figher (up to +6 at high levels), +2 from Wisdom, +2 from feat(s), some wisdom equipment maybe (i found a hat with +2 wisdom early on), so that's up to +11 will save. Then, you can have almost any caster cast protection from evil or something, and you are up to +13. That's not peanuts, unless the DC against those spells is just insanely high.

Well, you can meet certain enemies reaching DC 22 at level 5... And trouble is some of them really spam those tests.
Protection from Evil doesn't stack with Resistance items I think. But you'll have those too.

The problem with low saves is that saves are necessarily binary mechanics. Improving a pitiful Will save to a moderate Will save doesn't really yield good results in most situations. In PnP Iron Will grants access to Improved Iron Will which is an excellent feat because it grants you one reroll a day. But even then, it's still two feats to gain a chance to make a really important save. In Kingmaker, Improved Iron Will doesn't even do that, it's just another +2, so it's barely worth it. Added to that is that a lot of Kingmaker's content has inflated DCs compared to PnP, even on Core rules. Get it later on if you truly have nothing else to get, but don't bother making it a priority, that's my advice.

 

[Yosharian]

imho you should just enjoy it without turning it into a spreadsheet exercise.
you definitely dont need it.

Some people enjoy the spreadsheet exercise-part.

 

[Haplo]

How can you build an effective character in DnD 3/3.5/Pathfinder without the spreadsheet?

Planning and theorycrafting is like half the fun. Sometimes more.

 

[Efe]

yea but you dont need to have a detailed plan of which loot drops where.
at that point what do you play for?

 

[Yosharian]

yea but you dont need to have a detailed plan of which loot drops where.
at that point what do you play for?

Yeah cos it's so fun making a build that specialises in Weapon X and then finding zero magical versions of that weapon in the game

 

[Incendax]

Those are not mutually exclusive. But I mean, lets say you get a few Will save points from levels as a figher (up to +6 at high levels), +2 from Wisdom, +2 from feat(s), some wisdom equipment maybe (i found a hat with +2 wisdom early on), so that's up to +11 will save. Then, you can have almost any caster cast protection from evil or something, and you are up to +13. That's not peanuts, unless the DC against those spells is just insanely high.

You want to beat DC31 consistently on normal difficulty.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can also pick Blind Fight and thus make the only right choice i.e. not play the game.

2xIron Will would have been a lot more interesting if not only final boss actively used shit on the level of epic Disjunction. Member that you also have Holy Aura/Shield of Law which, while may not counter every mind affecting attack (Wild Gaze is exception; Confusion/Dominate otoh it protects against) still works against most of them.

 

[Ent]

I won't be able to mess around with the DLC until I get home from work but it looks like they added in all the tiefling race variants and the one archetype that actually makes the the kineticist pretty good (kinetic knight).

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Those are not mutually exclusive. But I mean, lets say you get a few Will save points from levels as a figher (up to +6 at high levels), +2 from Wisdom, +2 from feat(s), some wisdom equipment maybe (i found a hat with +2 wisdom early on), so that's up to +11 will save. Then, you can have almost any caster cast protection from evil or something, and you are up to +13. That's not peanuts, unless the DC against those spells is just insanely high.

You want to beat DC31 consistently on normal difficulty.

How the hell would you even get to that? Does the die roll get added to the saving throws? I forgot.

 

[Haplo]

I won't be able to mess around with the DLC until I get home from work but it looks like they added in all the tiefling race variants and the one archetype that actually makes the the kineticist pretty good (kinetic knight).

Not sure Kinetic Knight is so good. Gives up a lot of flexibility, powers and range advantage for... heavy armor and shield? And continuous use of Blade I suppose.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Not sure Kinetic Knight is so good. Gives up a lot of flexibility, powers and range advantage for... heavy armor and shield? And continuous use of Blade I suppose.

It seems to be getting Blade Whirlwhind early and for free - seems almost like a bug, tbh, as it turns the character into a walking fireball engine without spell per day limit.

 

[Ent]

Its a feature my friend. A FEATURE.

 

[Incendax]

How the hell would you even get to that? Does the die roll get added to the saving throws? I forgot.

Yes. So 1d20+13 would beat DC31 15% of the time.
Which is doooooooom.

 

[Ent]

Base kineticist will probably end up being better tanks than Kinetic Knights if they go water element. They end up getting plate armor levels of AC with the water defensive talent with no dex penalty.

 

[Yosharian]

Those are not mutually exclusive. But I mean, lets say you get a few Will save points from levels as a figher (up to +6 at high levels), +2 from Wisdom, +2 from feat(s), some wisdom equipment maybe (i found a hat with +2 wisdom early on), so that's up to +11 will save. Then, you can have almost any caster cast protection from evil or something, and you are up to +13. That's not peanuts, unless the DC against those spells is just insanely high.

You want to beat DC31 consistently on normal difficulty.

How the hell would you even get to that? Does the die roll get added to the saving throws? I forgot.

Quite easy really. Example:

Level 16 Paladin gets +10 to their strong save (Fort/Will)
Resistance bonus gets up to +8
Aura of Grace could grant up to +10 with good items

So, that's +28. Add to that other abilities or spells, like the Heroism spell, or the Inspire Courage Bard song, or the Community Domain Cleric's ability Guarded Hearth.

Saves can get quite high. And yes, you add a D20 roll to any bonuses you may have.

 

[Simple Simon]

Nerd Commando put up a "Wet Nurse" water healer kineticist video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t637IjVCm94

Around the 3:20 mark: "that's about 80 points of spare hit points walking around, probably jiggling cheerfully. That's a tit your party would love to suckle upon."

 

[Incendax]

Around the 3:20 mark: "that's about 80 points of spare hit points walking around, probably jiggling cheerfully. That's a tit your party would love to suckle upon."

Nice video. Very helpful. But his voice makes me want to die.

 

[Ruchy]

Is a Rogue 1 \ Magus sword saint \ Arcane trickster worth it? or am I wasting my time with the run you think?
Going with Dualling sword

 

[Yosharian]

Is a Rogue 1 \ Magus sword saint \ Arcane trickster worth it? or am I wasting my time with the run you think?
Going with Dualling sword

It's 'dueling' sword.

What exactly do you mean by 'worth it'?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Kineticist is a beast. Both Kanerah and Kelikke are wicked with kinetic blasts. Haven't even gotten to the mega micromanagement massive monstrous magic yet. But they are equipped with that, too. Good classes so far.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is a Rogue 1 \ Magus sword saint \ Arcane trickster worth it? or am I wasting my time with the run you think?
Going with Dualling sword

It's 'dueling' sword.

What exactly do you mean by 'worth it'?

maybe he meant he's wielding a sword in each hand

 

[Haplo]

Is a Rogue 1 \ Magus sword saint \ Arcane trickster worth it? or am I wasting my time with the run you think?
Going with Dualling sword

It could work. I would be concerned about accuracy though. AT is a 1/2 BAB class. Usually enough to land ranged touch attacks - but that will not be the case here.

Plus you would be missing on some magus/sword saint goodies (better weapon enchantments - including Brilliant energy - which could help with the accuracy issue, adding Int modifier to damage, Initiative, Critical Confirmation).

Id probably go for either one or the other. A level of monk in either case

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Can Kineticists do sneak attacks? What's with the Stealth skill being high to start and also being a class skill?

 

[Sarkile]

Is a Rogue 1 \ Magus sword saint \ Arcane trickster worth it? or am I wasting my time with the run you think?
Going with Dualling sword

I'm going to try to stick to my Rogue 4/Sword Saint X build on my current playthrough, mostly for Evasion, Uncanny Dodge and the Sneak Attack. Between Trickster and only dipping 1 level in Rogue I think you'll be sacrificing a lot of BAB, which would be a pretty big negative if you wanted to hit anything with that sword.

 

[Haplo]

The addition of Oni-Spawn Tieflings with a bonus to CMB/CMD, Str and Wis has prompted me to try a new tripping Strenght Vivisectionist with Shatter Defenses and Seize the Moment. With dips in Monk for some extra Wis AC (and even more with the special monk robe) and Sword Saint for direct access to Fauchards and their free weapon focus (for Shatter Defenses).

If he can get the Mastery from Shahiya, he should have about 45 CMB at level 14 and up to 57 fully buffed at level 18 (if he gets so far).

Anyway, it seems that I will only be able to squeeze 1 Trip supporting feat early on (around level 5). The other will have to wait till around level 13 (after Greater Trip, Shatter Defenses, Improved Critical and Crippling Strike).
Which do you think is better:
Fury's Fall (will eventually provide up to 8-9 CMB, but at early levels only 4) or Tandem Trip (lets you reroll your Trip attempt when another character with this feat is flanking the same opponent). For reference, at level 10 his CMB will be 25 without Fury's Fall and about 29 with it.