Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Hargulka was another story lol

View attachment 46010

just met this guy, guess facetanking is not gonna happen I thought 47-50 AC is pretty good for act 2
oh well it has little bit less than 300 hp so prob wont take many attempts

You can face tank him with the right build but it is pretty tricky. I didn't cast Reduce Person on this attempt so I could have squeezed a bit more out of it.

Spoiler

Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level takes a bit of the edge off his AB (as does Prayer and Archon's Aura, which you should be using), but playing with 200% HP makes him a hell of a lot beefier.

Even with enough AC to make him miss on 19 or less (possible) he still can roll 20s, and he hits hard enough that it doesn't take many hits to knock out my MC.

You have to find better solutions against this guy playing the way I do, luckily Hideous Laughter works well against him, but it was still close in the attempt I made - Laughter ran out just before he died and he got a couple of attacks off against my near-dead MC, which thankfully he rolled poorly on.

The whole point of Harg (and Owlcat boss design in general, especially optional ones) is to get you out of ruts you may have fallen into that will make coming chapters a slog.

Weak save of big shit is Reflexes dumbass, and game recommends you bring Jewb, who has Bombs that attack that while leaving your team alone. Figure it out, for fuck sake. Why do so many people who can’t master simple concepts play hardest difficulty?

(I like Tanglefoot over Force because of Ranged Malus vs Prone and Ekun’s Bow can light up Entangled Trolls).

Laughter is garbage. If you want to attack Will (why?) use Cacophonous Call.

Can people just not read? WTF happened?

 

[Max Damage]

Grease works very well there, also Web.

 

[Jermu]

checked rat cave trap DC

oh well I did that place level 7 was a joke at that point


act 2 done barely made it to level 10 did not touch dlc dungeon yet but did everything else

Linnorm was easy only needed surprise round + 1 round to finish that fight level 7 or 8

Ninja getting pounce as a trick is nice can do full attack even on surprise round (hp after surprise round)

Overall act 2 was pretty easy other than hargulka and this guy took second attempt

kinda annoying that inspecting sometimes require multiple attempts but so far its not too often needed

also after escaping verdant chambers fey trap returning to that place took around 5 attempts since my mc got 1 rounded by plant monster every time I entered before getting a turn

 

[Yosharian]

Challenge is going to completely evaporate after Hargulka with any competent team

Unless you use mods

 

[Jermu]

Unless you use mods

which one? I might try it if chapter 3 lacks any challenge

if I recall correctly at release I started with challenging difficulty and pumped it to hard or unfair (or back then it might have been called insane) at chapter 3

 

[Yosharian]

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/193 to begin with, this alters the difficulty curve to make it a lot more manageable on unfair in the early game and makes the game more difficult at the end

After that, I am currently experimenting with Bag of Tricks' 'Enemy Statistics' setting by using a HP multiplier setting of '2'

So far only the Boggard Caves felt off, that dungeon is just Boggard barbarian enemies copy pasted over and over so it was kind of annoying, everything else has felt about right

I haven't got to Vordakai's Tomb yet so it might be that the setting might be sufficient or it might need to be upped to 3 at that point, pretty much all of the enemies in that dungeon especially Vordakai have paper HP and are embarrassingly easy to kill, so much so that Vordakai rarely gets to cast even a single spell against my team usually

Oh and I play with Unfair stats only, I don't use 2x incoming damage because it's fucking retarded

 

[Desiderius]

I don’t think you’ll find VTomb lacking in challenge blind.

 

[Jermu]

finished chapter 3 the difficulty was fine most of time little bit too easy but few tough fights

found the most obnoxious area in the game in bloom (so far)

1. here have some spiders that randomly spawn with high initiative
2. done? cool have some more
3. no more spiders? okay how about swarms this time that jump instantly front of queue
4. done with em? lets mix it up with some more spiders
5. okay as a last fuck u have some more swarms



also done with varnhold's lot, probably the best dlc which does not say much dlc quality in kingmaker / wrath is quite poor. I cleared first 4 levels of tenebrous depths I probably skip rest of floors its even more awful than sailing dlc. its same shit here is room with monsters + mandatory trap and do that 300 times more

some thoughts:

- got filtered in first encounter before entering combat invincible enemy bombed mc with 90 crit
- difficulty was good, not too much bullshit except final boss was rng loadfest until u did not get filtered first turn. annoyingly that fight took around 8 times and it had 1 minute unskippable intro. final area was little bit too big + confusing
- kinda dick move to remove wizard just before final boss. varn was whatever he was quite useless as a pure class too squishy so used him mostly for scrolls / wands
- controlled fireball wand with 50 charges + pit spells carried pretty hard wizard's build was quite decent

party was: mc 1 nature oracle / x paladin (dump dex max cha), varn pure rogue, wizard buddy, cleric, bow mutation warrior, kineticist (boring)

favorite area was cultist village since it did not allow resting so took some planning to get through that. don't think other areas had any rest / time limits

 

[Yosharian]

Haha yeah that spider fight is obnoxious as fuck

 

[Desiderius]

Haha yeah that spider fight is obnoxious as fuck

Echolocation from Jewb a big help there. No traps are mandatory, you’ve just neglected Perception. Scout with high Stealth can avoid Spider Ambush. Add Vanish for extra margin for error.

Scouting is useful.

 

[Cael]

finished chapter 3 the difficulty was fine most of time little bit too easy but few tough fights

found the most obnoxious area in the game in bloom (so far)

1. here have some spiders that randomly spawn with high initiative
2. done? cool have some more
3. no more spiders? okay how about swarms this time that jump instantly front of queue
4. done with em? lets mix it up with some more spiders
5. okay as a last fuck u have some more swarms



also done with varnhold's lot, probably the best dlc which does not say much dlc quality in kingmaker / wrath is quite poor. I cleared first 4 levels of tenebrous depths I probably skip rest of floors its even more awful than sailing dlc. its same shit here is room with monsters + mandatory trap and do that 300 times more

some thoughts:

- got filtered in first encounter before entering combat invincible enemy bombed mc with 90 crit
- difficulty was good, not too much bullshit except final boss was rng loadfest until u did not get filtered first turn. annoyingly that fight took around 8 times and it had 1 minute unskippable intro. final area was little bit too big + confusing
- kinda dick move to remove wizard just before final boss. varn was whatever he was quite useless as a pure class too squishy so used him mostly for scrolls / wands
- controlled fireball wand with 50 charges + pit spells carried pretty hard wizard's build was quite decent

party was: mc 1 nature oracle / x paladin (dump dex max cha), varn pure rogue, wizard buddy, cleric, bow mutation warrior, kineticist (boring)

favorite area was cultist village since it did not allow resting so took some planning to get through that. don't think other areas had any rest / time limits

Wait till you run into Vordekai's Tomb and the one vs one bullshit.

 

[Desiderius]

Fortitude saves, how do they work?

The game tests skills you’ve neglected to develop. It *can* be solved (legit too easy in that respect) but most who claim it’s too easy mean they’ve overloaded on one dimension and rely on Saint Reload for the rest.

 

[Max Damage]

On my playthrough Linzi got singled out and they couldn't catch her due to Expeditious Retreat lol

 

[Iskramor]

finished chapter 3 the difficulty was fine most of time little bit too easy but few tough fights

found the most obnoxious area in the game in bloom (so far)

1. here have some spiders that randomly spawn with high initiative
2. done? cool have some more
3. no more spiders? okay how about swarms this time that jump instantly front of queue
4. done with em? lets mix it up with some more spiders
5. okay as a last fuck u have some more swarms



also done with varnhold's lot, probably the best dlc which does not say much dlc quality in kingmaker / wrath is quite poor. I cleared first 4 levels of tenebrous depths I probably skip rest of floors its even more awful than sailing dlc. its same shit here is room with monsters + mandatory trap and do that 300 times more

some thoughts:

- got filtered in first encounter before entering combat invincible enemy bombed mc with 90 crit
- difficulty was good, not too much bullshit except final boss was rng loadfest until u did not get filtered first turn. annoyingly that fight took around 8 times and it had 1 minute unskippable intro. final area was little bit too big + confusing
- kinda dick move to remove wizard just before final boss. varn was whatever he was quite useless as a pure class too squishy so used him mostly for scrolls / wands
- controlled fireball wand with 50 charges + pit spells carried pretty hard wizard's build was quite decent

party was: mc 1 nature oracle / x paladin (dump dex max cha), varn pure rogue, wizard buddy, cleric, bow mutation warrior, kineticist (boring)

favorite area was cultist village since it did not allow resting so took some planning to get through that. don't think other areas had any rest / time limits

Wait till you run into Vordekai's Tomb and the one vs one bullshit.

Balance what is that?Cyprus based woke moscovites probably.

 

[Jermu]

AI turning back on when switching between turn based / real time is tilting. same as with rods after rest / switching companions very annoying

speaking of rods I remember that there was 1 artisan rod that was about the best item in the game but could not get it so I had to check my older post

done with chapter 4 + 5 I did not recall that chapter 5 started immediately after finishing 4 so no time to chill. then after I explored everything I had around 500 days to pass time and only do bloom quest in that period

overall difficulty was easy but there were some good fights in it

* 1vs1 tomb duels were indeed bullshit my mc is pure summoner and her eidolon could not attack + focus on conjuration control spells did not do shit. I just loaded few times until go away ghost boys spell worked. tomb was not too bad only had to rest twice

* armag duel required the most attempts (7 or so) and I had to pre buff from other party members + I also abused switching between real time / turn based combat which is not needed but made it faster

some other notable harder / annoying fights that I needed to prepare for:
- ghostly guard + ankou gang in castle of knives
- grimoire quest with help write the book option since fight starts after 10 hours of afk so no buffs. first 2 attempts mc got nuked before getting a turn this fight is a lot harder when starting turn based than real time
- trees area where wisps start spawning, this just needed pre buff lightning resistance
- mandragora swarm gangbangs, just need to position correctly + know its coming usually couple spells is enough with rod
- barb camp fight with the witches. died twice turn based to ability drain before any1 not even a enemy got a turn, also turn based combat seems to stack damage too much sometimes when starting combat with long lasting dmg spells

pitax palace had couple good fights too but final battle got it done in the first attempt. tomb armag was easy think he went down in the first round

then cream of the crop mighty dragon went down after... 2 charges with pounce nok nok or amiri should be able to solo that fight with pre buffs + some blessed rng

some random pictures:

beautiful moment best companion

this helm is pretty busted since unlike other summons they start blasting immediately

too tiny to reach could not attack

then some of these newer spells are pretty ridiculous, time stop + cast twice in turn is just too much so I don't even want to use em

reach spells are cool thought can give em to own pet or alchemist can just give to whomever

 

[Desiderius]

Amiri is supposed to lose that duel.

You must be some kind of wimmen’s libber.

 

[Yosharian]

Yes, like I said COTW nerfs a bunch of stuff then just adds other things which are even worse =D

BTW those Power Source rods stack with themselves so if you manage to get a bunch of them your save DC just goes through the roof haha.

 

[Jermu]

there we go, used guide to unlock nyrissa ending which was whatever nothing special

house at the end of time was tedious but not too hard since you could rest plenty of times / swap fresh party members any time I just wished it ended

this spell saved my sanity, op as fuck

lifting curse (mini battles/areas) was decent but the last grind before lantern king was again awful

lantern king was pretty hard but managed to kill it first try, used some degenerate arts though

so I have played all owlcat games past 3 months with the hardest difficulty and the ranking is pretty easy
rogue trader << kingmaker < wrath

all games have the same problem - early / middle game is very good then it falls off


cotw is a wonderful mod pretty much 90% of bugs I thought I found was just me being retarded

party:
mc soulbound summoner - very strong whole game. just missing nuke spells but thats not a big deal can just spam wands/scrolls if needed
kanerah/kallikke kinetiticist & kinetic chirurgeon - just abusing char swap for healing when needed
valerie sorc
tristian cleric
nok nok 10 beastmorph/vivi alchemist, 3 knife master rogue, x master chymist - very strong beast/vivi combo is even stronger than pure vivi so yeah
jaethal battle host occultist - probably my favorite new class very flexible and after a while hits as hard as pure melee class
amiri primalist bloodrager - obviously strong metaslave choice
octavia phychic - again very good class but required a lot clicking
ekun freebooter ranger, hinderlander - decent but nothing special
regongar did not use much but was a sword saint
harrim 3 hinterlander, x nature fang druid - strong. hits as hard as ekun but still gets pet + lvl 9 spells
jubilost grenadier/toxicant alchemist - toxicant is pretty shit pure grenadier would be better
linzi 10 ninja rogue, 1 brawler, x duelist - ninja is my second favorite new class very good whole game

 

[Yosharian]

lantern king was pretty hard but managed to kill it first try, used some degenerate arts though

Wow really? He was piss easy on my last playthrough.

 

[Jermu]

yeah 2 of my chars got disabled even before I got a turn (arcane caster was the big one)
I did not pre summon / aoe spells before fight, just buffs
wild hunt gang also hits hard but king was squishy when I got a chance to hit ball form. would probably be easy now when I know all the phases and tricks

 

[Yosharian]

yeah 2 of my chars got disabled even before I got a turn (arcane caster was the big one)
I did not pre summon / aoe spells before fight, just buffs
wild hunt gang also hits hard but king was squishy when I got a chance to hit ball form. would probably be easy now when I know all the phases and tricks

Nah you don't need summons for that fight, I imagine they make it considerably easier though

I think the issue with my team is that they have so much damage that the first few phases are over in like 1 or 2 turns, so he never gets a chance to actually do anything of note

Even after the

Spoiler

auto-TPK which dispels your companions

my MC just took care of him singlehanded

 

[volklore]

Been playing act1 with CoTW (not using favored class and traits, think this adds a bit too much power) a lot and my opinion on the mod is changing a lot. Originally I felt it was mostly bloat and also that it gave too many good tools to the player for kingmaker's more basic encounter design compared to WotR (which is why I decided to play with no mercs and no companion respec to avoid making an optimized synergetic team) and this stays true in some ways but:

Implementation looks flawless so far (in everything I've tested), balance/revert to pnp changes are good (especially the combat trick change that's also in TTT), a lot of new feats make feat heavy classes like fighter for martials and wizards for casters a lot more interesting and versatile.
Funnily enough I think the Grease change might be even stronger in this that in regular kingmaker. Enemies are taking 1 mobility check per square moved in the grease... kiting with enlarged reachers over grease is pretty fucking strong in the early game and don't need conjuration foci to make it very effective. I'd say balance changes look neutral to me. I am sure some late game stuff will be very strong, but late game always was very easy anyways.

Companion changes are hit or miss. It's a kind of drastic departure from Owlcat's original design which was to make a lot of them somewhat flexible by giving them a lot of stats so you could take them elsewhere if you wanted to. In CoTW they have a pretty optimized stat spread and feat choice for what the mod wants you to do with them.

All in all great mod, but choice paralysis is worse than in WoTR.

 

[volklore]

jaethal battle host occultist - probably my favorite new class very flexible and after a while hits as hard as pure melee class

Did you go trappings of the warrior on her ? Feels like that subclass in made for it but the lost implements really suck compared to regular occultist. The spell list is so good for melee that the cost seems prohibitive.

 

[Jermu]

yup but battle host gets it quite late was it lvl 12 or something

regarding implements only transmutation seemed "mandatory" its ridiculous how much it gives

 

[Desiderius]

Been playing act1 with CoTW (not using favored class and traits, think this adds a bit too much power) a lot and my opinion on the mod is changing a lot. Originally I felt it was mostly bloat and also that it gave too many good tools to the player for kingmaker's more basic encounter design compared to WotR (which is why I decided to play with no mercs and no companion respec to avoid making an optimized synergetic team) and this stays true in some ways but:

Implementation looks flawless so far (in everything I've tested), balance/revert to pnp changes are good (especially the combat trick change that's also in TTT), a lot of new feats make feat heavy classes like fighter for martials and wizards for casters a lot more interesting and versatile.
Funnily enough I think the Grease change might be even stronger in this that in regular kingmaker. Enemies are taking 1 mobility check per square moved in the grease... kiting with enlarged reachers over grease is pretty fucking strong in the early game and don't need conjuration foci to make it very effective. I'd say balance changes look neutral to me. I am sure some late game stuff will be very strong, but late game always was very easy anyways.

Companion changes are hit or miss. It's a kind of drastic departure from Owlcat's original design which was to make a lot of them somewhat flexible by giving them a lot of stats so you could take them elsewhere if you wanted to. In CoTW they have a pretty optimized stat spread and feat choice for what the mod wants you to do with them.

All in all great mod, but choice paralysis is worse than in WoTR.

Mercs suck, as does Grease kiting (with a very few exceptions). You haven't hit one of the many optima yet.

Agree on the companion stat spreads and the mod.