Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

Couple of things there that shouldn't stack. Still interesting, though. Nice.

Interesting that you were able to get access to Seamantle on a character with that much multiclassing.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys have they fixed/changed Baleful Polymorph so that it doesn't fuck up loot and stuff?

Did you report it to them?
Did you send them pizza to the office every day of the week?

I just need a yes or a no, sigh

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

With my character pal2/monk2/Vivi 16 I have close to 80 AC fully buffed.
Unfortunately an AC of close to 80 doesn't help if everyone and his grandma attacks your flatfooted touch AC. Also, you don't need that much AC. Having around 70-75 (backed up by some illusion spells) INCLUDING wings and defensive fighting/crane stuff bonuses is plenty enough. It would be way more important to have a higher touch AC instead (which my char has only in the 40ies) and most importantly have uncanny dodge, without it you're getting destroyed way to often. My knifemaster could just charge in and start shoving his kukris into the wild hunt monarchs face, this one here would get destroyed immediately. So yes, ~70 AC, >50 touch AC, uncanny dodge that's what I'd shoot for. So with hindsight I'd rather do this character as monk1/pal2/rogue4/vivi 13.

 

[Cael]

With my character pal2/monk2/Vivi 16 I have close to 80 AC fully buffed.
Unfortunately an AC of close to 80 doesn't help if everyone and his grandma attacks your flatfooted touch AC. Also, you don't need that much AC. Having around 70-75 (backed up by some illusion spells) INCLUDING wings and defensive fighting/crane stuff bonuses is plenty enough. It would be way more important to have a higher touch AC instead (which my char has only in the 40ies) and most importantly have uncanny dodge, without it you're getting destroyed way to often. My knifemaster could just charge in and start shoving his kukris into the wild hunt monarchs face, this one here would get destroyed immediately. So yes, ~70 AC, >50 touch AC, uncanny dodge that's what I'd shoot for. So with hindsight I'd rather do this character as monk1/pal2/rogue4/vivi 13.

Monks should keep the majority of their AC even when flatfooted...

 

[Incendax]

Couple of things there that shouldn't stack. Still interesting, though. Nice.

Definitely. The actual value fluctuates slightly - Vilderavn ignore Seamantle, while Archers ignore Crane Wing and Wings (those are melee only). There's really no reason for me to be using Arcane Protector there. I can just punch stuff with my bare hands and the Unmaker ring for better results. AC that high is just gratuitous.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Monks should keep the majority of their AC even when flatfooted...

I do not exactly know how this game treats flat-footed. For this character losing DEX 40 would mean at least -15 AC, which can absolutely be enough to move from safe into getting destroyed territory.
You do lose way more AC than that however. I've seen mobs attacking a flatfooted touch AC of 18, which means that char just loses everything except those +8 cha bonus from monk I presume (18 cha , +8 cha item).

 

[Haplo]

With my character pal2/monk2/Vivi 16 I have close to 80 AC fully buffed.
Unfortunately an AC of close to 80 doesn't help if everyone and his grandma attacks your flatfooted touch AC. Also, you don't need that much AC. Having around 70-75 (backed up by some illusion spells) INCLUDING wings and defensive fighting/crane stuff bonuses is plenty enough. It would be way more important to have a higher touch AC instead (which my char has only in the 40ies) and most importantly have uncanny dodge, without it you're getting destroyed way to often. My knifemaster could just charge in and start shoving his kukris into the wild hunt monarchs face, this one here would get destroyed immediately. So yes, ~70 AC, >50 touch AC, uncanny dodge that's what I'd shoot for. So with hindsight I'd rather do this character as monk1/pal2/rogue4/vivi 13.

Hmm, I still have the option of going 4 Rogue on my 11 Vivi/1M/1SS. Or 2 Archeologist for Uncanny Dodge. Quite some food for thought. Thank you!

 

[Grunker]

Five natural armor bonus sources?

 

[zapotec]

During my playthrough i acquired the Vital Strike feat, but i almost never used it (Two-handed ranger) because i was using enlarge/legendary proportion along with cleave.
When it's worth to use it?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Hmm, I still have the option of going 4 Rogue on my 11 Vivi/1M/1SS. Or 2 Archeologist for Uncanny Dodge. Quite some food for thought. Thank you!

I've pondered for quite a while whether I should just go barbarian 2 to get it, at the end of the game I regretted that I hadn't done it tbh.

 

[Cael]

Monks should keep the majority of their AC even when flatfooted...

I do not exactly know how this game treats flat-footed. For this character losing DEX 40 would mean at least -15 AC, which can absolutely be enough to move from safe into getting destroyed territory.
You do lose way more AC than that however. I've seen mobs attacking a flatfooted touch AC of 18, which means that char just loses everything except those +8 cha bonus from monk I presume (18 cha , +8 cha item).

Yes. Monk's Wis and bonus AC from levels do not go away when flatfoot. His Dex AC will unless you get Uncanny Dodge from somewhere.

 

[Incendax]

Here is Valerie without any crazy multiclassing. She is a Tower Shield Specialist 1 (without respec) / Knife Master 19.
She also gets +6AC vs Light Blades, and inflicts -8 To Hit when she Sneak Attacks you.
Just a bog standard Valerie anyone could have at endgame without mods.

Other: +2 is [Paragon of Defenders]

 

[Haplo]

Nice. Robes again. Although obviously Magic Vestment is bugged. And there appears to be too much Natural Armor stacking as well.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Robes again. Although obviously Magic Vestment is bugged.

It is bugged with armors that already have +x but those robes don't have an armor enhancement bonus so it working there is correct I think.

 

[Haplo]

During my playthrough i acquired the Vital Strike feat, but i almost never used it (Two-handed ranger) because i was using enlarge/legendary proportion along with cleave.
When it's worth to use it?

Never. Your damage should come from your normal attacks so the iterative attacks act as multipliers. The only time I could see vital strike being used is when you are facing DR you can not overcome.

Yeah, at the very least Vital Strike damage bonus should be multiplied by crits to make it somewhat worthwhile sometimes. Like on a Sword Saint with Perfect Strike maxing base weapon damage with a 3d8 weapon. As it is... I guess it's okay as first attack after movement, as you can't full attack then anyhow. Now whether that's worth like a 3 feat chain? Probably not.

 

[Haplo]

Robes again. Although obviously Magic Vestment is bugged.

It is bugged with armors that already have +x but those robes don't have an armor enhancement bonus so it working there is correct I think.

Only, as far as I'm aware, armor enhancement bonus is not supposed to be counted separately from base armor. You can't wear 8AC bracers and a +5 leather for the same effect.

 

[Incendax]

Nice. Robes again. Although obviously Magic Vestment is bugged. And there appears to be too much Natural Armor stacking as well.

Magic Vestment should be Pathfinder legal in this case, since the Bracers are armor bonuses and vestment is an enhancement bonus. But the natural armor stacking definitely should not be happening.

In any case, Bracers + Vestments + Dexterity Modifier just ends up being better than even Onslaught in the endgame. And you don't even have to go with Censor Robes. Dark Master Robes are also good for Valerie since they give +8 Charisma, assuming you don't have somewhere better for them.

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, I still have the option of going 4 Rogue on my 11 Vivi/1M/1SS. Or 2 Archeologist for Uncanny Dodge. Quite some food for thought. Thank you!

I've pondered for quite a while whether I should just go barbarian 2 to get it, at the end of the game I regretted that I hadn't done it tbh.

Well, a Barbarian clashes with lawful alignment for the monk dip and monk robes.
However an Archeologist Bard can be Alignment: Any (and requires only 2 levels for UD, like the Barb). So can Rogue.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Any progression bugs left or is it possible to play to the end without having to deal with game breaking bugs?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Only, as far as I'm aware, armor enhancement bonus is not supposed to be counted separately from base armor. You can't wear 8AC bracers and a +5 leather for the same effect.

After investigating this I think you're right.
You're supposed to add armor bonus and armor enhancement bonus of each item and then take the highest of those 2.
e.g.
bracers +8, = +8 armor , +0 armor enhancement = 8
robe, +0 armor, +5 armor enhancement from magic vestment = 5
You get the higher one = 8.

 

[Haplo]

Not to mention that Magic Vestment for shields seemed broken a while ago when I bothered to check.

 

[Yosharian]

Bracers add Armor bonus. Magic Vestment adds Enhancement Armor Bonus to your Robes. There is zero reason for these two bonuses to not stack. Please link an official source that proves otherwise?

That Archeologist dip is really tempting.

 

[ga♥]

I don't think they will ever fix the bonus stacking from Magical vestment, same for the Vivi mutagen stacking

Incendax what's the blessing of lamathsu +2 nat armour?

 

[Haplo]

Vivi mutagen stacking is per the rules. Its "Alchemical" bonus type, which stacks with everything else.

 

[Haplo]

I wonder if you can pick Advanced Rogue Talents (such as Opportunist, Double Debilitation or Improved Evasion) with Rogue level 2 and 4 Talent picks if you already have 10+ levels in Vivisectionist.

Conversely if you can pick Preserve Organs or Mummification as Rogue Talents - if you already have Vivi levels.