Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ArchAngel]

And then they added Kineticists that are kind of like Jubilost but don't have a limited supply of bombs..

 

[axedice]

Kineticist is stupidly strong I agree, but the first few levels seem like a drag. Even starting as fire, they have neither the kick nor the utility an alchemist can bring with bombs and infusions. Then of course Deadly Earth and later cloud (they do stack) kicks in and kill the game, if you start the combat with both infusions maximized and/or empowered, everything melts before they reach you. The worst offender is you can spam this endlessly after lvl16 or so. I've killed some minibosses without ever realising they were with the groups.

Now everything else, even Nok-Nok with his 300dpr feels empty, as I can reach the same damage on aoe scale easily. I am a sucker for abusing this kind of shit =(

 

[Grunker]

This game should just be played without an alchemist. It's that simple. They hit easily dealing 40+ damage per hit, attack multiple times, deal half damage even if they miss, and can easily switch damage types if something isn't harmed by acid.

No enemy - and I mean not a single one - has been able to reduce damage from Jubilost. Adamantine Golems just fall over.

And it's not like it's some specific broken build. It's just the alchemist! Not even the Vivi.

Then there are holy bombs that completely wreck all undead, demons, wisps and most bosses. And you also get multiple items that give you additional d6 to all bomb damage rolls. In my playthrough Jubilost was probably the main reason difficulty took a huge dive from chapter 1 to chapters 2/3 (Ekundayo with Devourer of Metal and a bunch of archery feats was another but there are enemies he has trouble hitting). Everyone got stronger, Valerie got some good equipment, feats and tower shield training etc, but the difference in killing power between Jubilost and everyone else was huge and it didn't change for the entire game. His AC is terrible but he can cast some defensive spells and as long as you can defend him with fighters and don't run out of bombs everything just dies.

Yeah I wrote about the dive in difficulty here as well, but after a couple of hours I realized it was just Jubilost. It was that simple.

As soon as I put him on the bench the game got instantly more interesting. Like against the four adamantine golems I specifically tested it with and without Jubilost and it was stupid. With Jubilost I didn't buff beyond a Haste: just autoattacked the fight first try.

Without Jubilost I had to reload three times, move differently and use specific spells.

IMO alchemists are just worthless for anyone looking for a good time. They're the equivalent of a cheat. As if there pure power wasn't enough they ignore all enemy defenses as well. If an enemy has a defense against something, the Alchemist - who deals the most damage already - is the best class to negate that defense. Swarms are some of the most annoying enemies in the game, but luckily you don't have to switch to shitty torches or deal AoE damage to your own crew: you can just chug bombs like with everything else.

It's all these stacking advantages escalating to an exponential increase in power.

If the Kineticist is even worse I have no idea what they were thinking. The funny thing is a pretty simple fix would help alot to reduce their power: the discovery that allows them to exempt allies from splash damage. If that existed at least you would have to work a bit for the insane damage.

Again, most RPGs have broken shit in them, even Pillars, but it's usually very specific stuff that takes some tinkering to work out. At least Kineticist is kindda complicated to understand when you first read it. The alchemist is just bonkers and kills any challenge the game offers out of the box, lol. Literally the only required is negating splash damage to allies, and people are gonna figure that out once they throw the first bomb. Fast bombs ups the kill potential to a great degree, of course, but even without it alchemists are great.

 

[ArchAngel]

Kineticist are even crazier in end game. I even found a quicken rod for kineticists lol. I used it maybe once, it is not even needed :D

 

[Cael]

If the Kineticist is even worse I have no idea what they were thinking.

They were thinking:

All DLCs suffer this. They need to make things interesting and the easiest way is via overpowered loot or class or whatever. Power creep is a very real thing. Just look at DA Origins and the psycho stuff that spawned in the DLCs.

 

[Daidre]

Alchemist seems to be much stronger at low lvl then Kineticist. With Kineticist you either hit SR with energy blast or full AC with physical blast. And there was whole encounters where my Kineticist was almost useless. Wisps are worst offenders, since they were outright immune to fire blast and I had 20% chance to hit them with earth. High lvl fey SR is nasty too since most of them out-level you and Spell Penetration is useless(?) on Kineticist. Only thing my lvl 9 PC could do against Lady of Shallows, nereid in portal next to Pitax border, was to stand nearby and look scary (Dazzling Display).

Kineticist go nuts with Deadly Earth at 13, but properly built full casters like Wizards (Sorcs, AT), Clerics or Druids is pretty close at power level scale.

 

[Jarpie]

This game should just be played without an alchemist. It's that simple. They hit easily dealing 40+ damage per hit, attack multiple times, deal half damage even if they miss, and can easily switch damage types if something isn't harmed by acid.

No enemy - and I mean not a single one - has been able to reduce damage from Jubilost. Adamantine Golems just fall over.

And it's not like it's some specific broken build. It's just the alchemist! Not even the Vivi.

Then there are holy bombs that completely wreck all undead, demons, wisps and most bosses. And you also get multiple items that give you additional d6 to all bomb damage rolls. In my playthrough Jubilost was probably the main reason difficulty took a huge dive from chapter 1 to chapters 2/3 (Ekundayo with Devourer of Metal and a bunch of archery feats was another but there are enemies he has trouble hitting). Everyone got stronger, Valerie got some good equipment, feats and tower shield training etc, but the difference in killing power between Jubilost and everyone else was huge and it didn't change for the entire game. His AC is terrible but he can cast some defensive spells and as long as you can defend him with fighters and don't run out of bombs everything just dies.

Yeah I wrote about the dive in difficulty here as well, but after a couple of hours I realized it was just Jubilost. It was that simple.

As soon as I put him on the bench the game got instantly more interesting. Like against the four adamantine golems I specifically tested it with and without Jubilost and it was stupid. With Jubilost I didn't buff beyond a Haste: just autoattacked the fight first try.

Without Jubilost I had to reload three times, move differently and use specific spells.

IMO alchemists are just worthless for anyone looking for a good time. They're the equivalent of a cheat. As if there pure power wasn't enough they ignore all enemy defenses as well. If an enemy has a defense against something, the Alchemist - who deals the most damage already - is the best class to negate that defense. Swarms are some of the most annoying enemies in the game, but luckily you don't have to switch to shitty torches or deal AoE damage to your own crew: you can just chug bombs like with everything else.

It's all these stacking advantages escalating to an exponential increase in power.

If the Kineticist is even worse I have no idea what they were thinking. The funny thing is a pretty simple fix would help alot to reduce their power: the discovery that allows them to exempt allies from splash damage. If that existed at least you would have to work a bit for the insane damage.

Again, most RPGs have broken shit in them, even Pillars, but it's usually very specific stuff that takes some tinkering to work out. At least Kineticist is kindda complicated to understand when you first read it. The alchemist is just bonkers and kills any challenge the game offers out of the box, lol. Literally the only required is negating splash damage to allies, and people are gonna figure that out once they throw the first bomb. Fast bombs ups the kill potential to a great degree, of course, but even without it alchemists are great.

That's why I respec Jubilost into wizard or bard if I want to use him, alchemist is so ridiculously broken, shame that kineticist is also so OP as I like the Kanerah/Kalikke duo, but at least with those you can use the lesser skills so they won't make crazy damage.

 

[Daidre]

For me it is damn hard to draw the line between broken and non-broken in P:K or any D&D game. Optimizing builds is were all fun is for me and restricting interesting options spoils this fun.
So I just set difficulty higher and fight crazy with crazy.

 

[Thonius]

Alchemist is a popamole class. The END.

 

[Cael]

For me it is damn hard to draw the line between broken and non-broken in P:K or any D&D game. Optimizing builds is were all fun is for me and restricting interesting options spoils this fun.
So I just set difficulty higher and fight crazy with crazy.

The problem with games that insist on native higher difficulty is that it automatically restrict options, interesting or otherwise. If you are not at a certain power level when you hit a certain part of the main storyline, you are basically fucked. So, people only make builds of a certain power level in order to be able to stand a chance at getting over the bottleneck, which means, of course, we get to hear the same few class/race combos time and again in builds threads. Vivisectionist in bugmaker, for example.

 

[Grunker]

Daidre that's my entire point. You're not optimizing the Alchemist. The only choice you need to make to build an OP alchemist is click the Class Select button.

Even though I love Pillars I can 100% see the appeal of optimization in systems like Pathfinder, figuring out clever stuff that breaks the game (even though the reason I enjoy the system myself is making weird and off-kilter builds work), but the Alchemist is just baseline dumb. No thought required.

 

[ArchAngel]

Alchemist seems to be much stronger at low lvl then Kineticist. With Kineticist you either hit SR with energy blast or full AC with physical blast. And there was whole encounters where my Kineticist was almost useless. Wisps are worst offenders, since they were outright immune to fire blast and I had 20% chance to hit them with earth. High lvl fey SR is nasty too since most of them out-level you and Spell Penetration is useless(?) on Kineticist. Only thing my lvl 9 PC could do against Lady of Shallows, nereid in portal next to Pitax border, was to stand nearby and look scary (Dazzling Display).

Kineticist go nuts with Deadly Earth at 13, but properly built full casters like Wizards (Sorcs, AT), Clerics or Druids is pretty close at power level scale.

That is because you didn't take any physical based AoE skills. Cold Sister starts with Torrent ability and that ignores both AC and SR.

 

[Daidre]

Imho, Alchemist is noob-friendly class who always perform roughly the same. He has its extreme niche with low level boss killing. And really needs other chars tanking to pull it off. Wizard or Druid leaves him in the dust around lvl 11-13, and in ch 6-7 Alchemist almost liability with his bad AC (archer targeting), horrible will saves and low-ish AOE capabilities against huge (5+ creatures) packs of heavy-hitting mobs. You can fix defense issues with buffs but why bother?

 

[Daidre]

That is because you didn't take any physical based AoE skills. Cold Sister starts with Torrent ability and that ignores both AC and SR.

And gives them reflex save for 0,5 -> 0 damage with evasion. With physical AOE being 0.5 of blast damage to begin with result is more alike to wet noodle hit.

 

[Israfael]

In my playthrough Jubilost was probably the main reason difficulty took a huge dive from chapter 1 to chapters 2/3 (.

Have you, uh, tried the real hero of the game?

Knife is for stab,
pick is for lock,
but what makes a hero?
Why... ask Nok-Nok

 

[ArchAngel]

That is because you didn't take any physical based AoE skills. Cold Sister starts with Torrent ability and that ignores both AC and SR.

And gives them reflex save for 0,5 -> 0 damage with evasion. With physical AOE being 0.5 of blast damage to begin with result is more alike to wet noodle hit.

But one guaranteed vs enemies like wisps where casters do little and others are missing more than hitting.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

In my playthrough Jubilost was probably the main reason difficulty took a huge dive from chapter 1 to chapters 2/3 (.

Have you, uh, tried the real hero of the game?

Knife is for stab,
pick is for lock,
but what makes a hero?
Why... ask Nok-Nok

He had a terrible sword-related accident in my game. I recruited him when I played a wizard earlier, and he does deal crazy damage (because everything is flanking and sneak attacks in this game) but he's squishy, needs to be in melee and needs to hit with attacks, so I'd still take Jubilost over him.

 

[Haplo]

Well, you can use Light Shields with Shield Bash to increase his survivability. A bit less damage, but dead characters tend to have low DPR anyway.

 

[Daidre]

News about Varnhold's Lot release date.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, you can use Light Shields with Shield Bash to increase his survivability. A bit less damage, but dead characters tend to have low DPR anyway.

Or just get a friendly Alchemist to cast shield on him...

 

[Zero Credibility]

I am curious if they'll add some of the content I'm looking for the most (more races, classes, archetypes, feats, traits, ...) or will it be purely Maegar's story and nothing more.

 

[Daidre]

But one guaranteed vs enemies like wisps where casters do little and others are missing more than hitting.

Guaranteed damage is difficult to argue. I am probably biased against everything with friendly fire and line, cone or caster-centered explosion. Been nuking my own melee with Cone of Cold since IWD and fancy area markers in newer games only proved that I am beyond hope)

 

[Haplo]

Well, you can use Light Shields with Shield Bash to increase his survivability. A bit less damage, but dead characters tend to have low DPR anyway.

Or just get a friendly Alchemist to cast shield on him...

Well, yeah, if you want to go that way.
End game that should still be like 2 AC less, 3 with Shield Focus. But it would certainly help and be kinda "cheaper" - if you lug an Alchemist with Infusion Discovery around.
My Vivisectionist didn't pick Infusion - his buffs are only his own

 

[ERYFKRAD]

News about Varnhold's Lot release date.

Is everyone using Smugface McCovfefe as their main or what?

 

[Haplo]

Damn, I'm really torn by the "need Uncanny Dodge late game" thing. Legendary Proportions I can get from Octavia, I guess. But missing Transformation (or only getting it at 20 with Archeologist dip) would kinda suck.