Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

You can quote the rulebook but most of those are probably either not implemented or don't do what the rules say.

I'm quoting the various game wikis. I'm happy to see evidence that the feat does indeed only give those two effects, but at the moment there's no evidence that that's the case.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You can quote the rulebook but most of those are probably either not implemented or don't do what the rules say.

I'm quoting the various game wikis. I'm happy to see evidence that the feat does indeed only give those two effects, but at the moment there's no evidence that that's the case.

That statement was to both of you. Unless you're willing to trawl through the game resources & decompiled source to confirm it works as stated, I'd just assume it doesn't.

 

[deuxhero]

Playing Varnhold chapter. The game seems to have resorted to throwing large numbers of enemies at me. I hope this isn't an indication it has fully expended its bestiary.

. Always keep 100bp cushion.

Any particular reason other than advisers giving you the option to spend BP, possibly sending you into negatives and unrest if you don't buy more right away? I've just been buying more (though always keeping a large chunk of gold) as needed since there's practically nothing to spend it on (didn't install vendor progression, but do have crafting mod. Maybe that changes it).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

IIRC there's events where you can be robbed and end up severely in the negative.

 

[Yosharian]

You can quote the rulebook but most of those are probably either not implemented or don't do what the rules say.

I'm quoting the various game wikis. I'm happy to see evidence that the feat does indeed only give those two effects, but at the moment there's no evidence that that's the case.

That statement was to both of you. Unless you're willing to trawl through the game resources & decompiled source to confirm it works as stated, I'd just assume it doesn't.

Yeah but he isn't quoting any rulebook. I have no idea what the source for that information is.

 

[Desiderius]

Playing Varnhold chapter. The game seems to have resorted to throwing large numbers of enemies at me. I hope this isn't an indication it has fully expended its bestiary.

. Always keep 100bp cushion.

Any particular reason other than advisers giving you the option to spend BP, possibly sending you into negatives and unrest if you don't buy more right away? I've just been buying more (though always keeping a large chunk of gold) as needed since there's practically nothing to spend it on (didn't install vendor progression, but do have crafting mod. Maybe that changes it).

Usually, but those are important. Linzi runs off with some, etc...

 

[Sykar]

Who is the strongest caster in the game?

An kineticist with magma deadly earth + cloud can put ludicrous amount of damage / round

I won't deny that. However for burst damage and damage per round, a wizard or sorcerer Arcane Trickster has them beat. An illusionist can beat them in aoe instant death dealing. Of course mage resources are limited.

No lol, my Kineticists was doing 500 damage with empowered maximised Deadly Earth in huge AoE with no save. Nothing Arcane Trickster has can beat that.
That death illusion spell only works vs some enemies that have weaker saves and does not work on golems and others.

That just means that Deadly Earth is a disgusting piece of shit ability that you should avoid at all cost.

So is Wierd vs many enemies in the game (especially Fey). It is part of the class and cannot be ignored when saying which class is better.

Weird is not available until level 17/18 and actually allows for two! saves and some enemies are immune.

Phantasmal Killer comes online at 7/8 and goes a long way if you stack Illusion DC and take Heighten Spell. I ran a Gnome Sorcerer (Arcane bloodline) that ended up with DC 38 Phantasmal Killer and DC 43 Weird, and could have added 1 more with Bokken's potion.

Phantasmal Killer still has the same restrictions as Weird and is only single target. There are classes/builds which can deal couple of hundred damage per round which has the same effect effectively. As Haplo has shown earlier record is now at over 1200 and it has no restrictions of the amount of times you can use it.

 

[Yosharian]

Phantasmal Killer still has the same restrictions as Weird and is only single target. There are classes/builds which can deal couple of hundred damage per round which has the same effect effectively. As Haplo has shown earlier record is now at over 1200 and it has no restrictions of the amount of times you can use it.

Wasn't that just crits?

 

[Sykar]

Anyone else got the problem that having a lot of portraits loaded when creating a character slows down your system down a lot even after you quit the game. I think I have to wait around 10 minutes until the machine starts working normally. According to my task manager it is the windows explorer which uses up huge amounts of disk writing/reading. Is that normal? Did not have that problem before getting that huge portrait pack from the nexus.

 

[Haplo]

Who is the strongest caster in the game?

An kineticist with magma deadly earth + cloud can put ludicrous amount of damage / round

I won't deny that. However for burst damage and damage per round, a wizard or sorcerer Arcane Trickster has them beat. An illusionist can beat them in aoe instant death dealing. Of course mage resources are limited.

No lol, my Kineticists was doing 500 damage with empowered maximised Deadly Earth in huge AoE with no save. Nothing Arcane Trickster has can beat that.
That death illusion spell only works vs some enemies that have weaker saves and does not work on golems and others.

It sounds a bit high for a single power in a single round. Damage for a maximized empowered composite blast should be 12 x 15 + stat mod, let's say 15 or even 30. Halved for deadly earth ticks (although it's applied twice in the first round - on activation and on round finish). About ~100 x2. Though activation should be actually less.
And doing maximized empowered deadly earth costs burn.
Now you can come closer to 500 in a round if you stack both deadly earth and Cloud - a lot of burn if both are maxed.
But actually an AT can do more in 2 rounds. My unoptimized AT at level 17 or 18 was sometimes doing 270 aoe damage per spell. He can cast 2 such spells in 2 rounds, plus 2 more quickened weaker ones.

Yeah, Kineticist powers last many rounds... But really, what enemies survive more then 2 - 3 rounds?

More importantly, AT attacks are often party friendly or can be aimed not to hurt allies.
But once a Kin conjures a death zone, the rest of the party better stay the fuck out. Fine if you solo, I guess.

 

[Haplo]

Phantasmal Killer still has the same restrictions as Weird and is only single target. There are classes/builds which can deal couple of hundred damage per round which has the same effect effectively. As Haplo has shown earlier record is now at over 1200 and it has no restrictions of the amount of times you can use it.

Wasn't that just crits?

Vital Strike crit, of course. And that scope of damage somewhat limited by Arcane Pool.

But 500+ party friendly martial damage per round is nothing unusual. Sometimes 1000+

 

[biggestboss]

I think I'm going to restart with a new character now that I have a stronger understanding of how the game works, specifically inventory encumbrance. What do you guys do in terms of inventory management? I get the feeling that it's right to just ignore loot that weighs more than a pound and is worth a small amount of gold, but is it worth lugging around heavy armor that I don't plan on using just to sell it for ~60 gold? I don't want to gimp my economy and be too poor early in the game, but I also don't want to have to keep resting and using supplies because everyone is too tired from traveling with encumbrance.

 

[Yosharian]

I think I'm going to restart with a new character now that I have a stronger understanding of how the game works, specifically inventory encumbrance. What do you guys do in terms of inventory management? I get the feeling that it's right to just ignore loot that weighs more than a pound and is worth a small amount of gold, but is it worth lugging around heavy armor that I don't plan on using just to sell it for ~60 gold? I don't want to gimp my economy and be too poor early in the game, but I also don't want to have to keep resting and using supplies because everyone is too tired from traveling with encumbrance.

Just make sure you have at least one animal companion like a Smilodon. They add a lot of carry weight to your party.

 

[purpleblob]

You only need to rely on common loots for the gold in the early games - when the chapter 2 begins, there are much better way to make gold. Make sure you keep all items in "notable section" because one of the characters in your barony will pay you good amount of gold for those.

Also, try not to carry around too much rations in the early games since they weigh a lot. I'd say max 12 rations if you plan to go with full 6 party members.

 

[Lambach]

It sounds a bit high for a single power in a single round. Damage for a maximized empowered composite blast should be 12 x 15 + stat mod, let's say 15 or even 30. Halved for deadly earth ticks (although it's applied twice in the first round - on activation and on round finish). About ~100 x2. Though activation should be actually less.
And doing maximized empowered deadly earth costs burn.
Now you can come closer to 500 in a round if you stack both deadly earth and Cloud - a lot of burn if both are maxed.
But actually an AT can do more in 2 rounds. My unoptimized AT at level 17 or 18 was sometimes doing 270 aoe damage per spell. He can cast 2 such spells in 2 rounds, plus 2 more quickened weaker ones.

Yeah, Kineticist powers last many rounds... But really, what enemies survive more then 2 - 3 rounds?

More importantly, AT attacks are often party friendly or can be aimed not to hurt allies.
But once a Kin conjures a death zone, the rest of the party better stay the fuck out. Fine if you solo, I guess.

Bruv, you're missing the point. Is it 150 or 500 damage per round? Who gives a fuck, with both of those numbers there is no single enemy in the game that can last a total of 3 rounds against it*, including the Lantern Cuck. "You'll damage your own party" - no you fucking won't, this ain't Baldur's Gate, you have a very clear, distinct, easily marked AoE and all you have to do is make sure your party members don't step into it.

This is an ability that you really cannot defend against. There's no AC to make sure you avoid it, it does not allow any Saves and all you can do is reduce its per-round damage by.... what, 10-20 points per round, against well over 150?

tl;dr - Post-Level 13 having a Kineticist with Deadly Earth in the party pretty much makes having any offense-oriented characters completely obsolete, as they will never, ever be able to compete. It only gets worse once your Kineticist gets Cloud, because now he has double the original offense, i.e. twice the offense that no other build can compete against.

*Specters might, depending on the composition of your Composite Blast, but Specters are encountered in a grand total of 2 places in the entire game and are almost completely negated by Death Ward, so it's hardly a drawback

 

[Haplo]

It sounds a bit high for a single power in a single round. Damage for a maximized empowered composite blast should be 12 x 15 + stat mod, let's say 15 or even 30. Halved for deadly earth ticks (although it's applied twice in the first round - on activation and on round finish). About ~100 x2. Though activation should be actually less.
And doing maximized empowered deadly earth costs burn.
Now you can come closer to 500 in a round if you stack both deadly earth and Cloud - a lot of burn if both are maxed.
But actually an AT can do more in 2 rounds. My unoptimized AT at level 17 or 18 was sometimes doing 270 aoe damage per spell. He can cast 2 such spells in 2 rounds, plus 2 more quickened weaker ones.

Yeah, Kineticist powers last many rounds... But really, what enemies survive more then 2 - 3 rounds?

More importantly, AT attacks are often party friendly or can be aimed not to hurt allies.
But once a Kin conjures a death zone, the rest of the party better stay the fuck out. Fine if you solo, I guess.

Bruv, you're missing the point. Is it 150 or 500 damage per round? Who gives a fuck, with both of those numbers there is no single enemy in the game that can last a total of 3 rounds against it*, including the Lantern Cuck. "You'll damage your own party" - no you fucking won't, this ain't Baldur's Gate, you have a very clear, distinct, easily marked AoE and all you have to do is make sure your party members don't step into it.

This is an ability that you really cannot defend against. There's no AC to make sure you avoid it, it does not allow any Saves and all you can do is reduce its per-round damage by.... what, 10-20 points per round, against well over 150?

tl;dr - Post-Level 13 having a Kineticist with Deadly Earth in the party pretty much makes having any offense-oriented characters completely obsolete, as they will never, ever be able to compete. It only gets worse once your Kineticist gets Cloud, because now he has double the original offense, i.e. twice the offense that no other build can compete against.

*Specters might, depending on the composition of your Composite Blast, but Specters are encountered in a grand total of 2 places in the entire game and are almost completely negated by Death Ward, so it's hardly a drawback

I did not. I actually wrote this:
"Yeah, Kineticist powers last many rounds... But really, what enemies survive more then 2 - 3 rounds?"

But same deal with AT - who besides bosses will withstand more then 2-3 spells?

I guess Kin can do this more without resting. But again, if you play in a party, it doesn't change much.

 

[Lambach]

But same deal with AT - who besides bosses will withstand more then 2-3 spells?

Wild Hunt? They have, what, 350-360 HP on Hard (judging by the fact a 180 Damage Wail of The Banshee shaves only half of their health off). AT gets 5d6 Sneak at level 10 + 2d6 from Rogue/Accomplished Sneak. Cast Ice Storm to double that Sneak, and it's still not enough without casting it 5-6 times. And you can do it only a finite number of times per rest.

A Kineticist can keep doing it forever, and with more d6's + Maximized. It's just not an even playing field.

 

[Haplo]

And 5d6 Sense Vitals. And lots of empower/maximize rods/other items. And maximize+Empower 3xday.
AT Ice Storm can do 100+ damage easily (and you can cast it a lot). Stormbolts with the Mastery rod do ~300 - in party friendly aoe.

 

[Lambach]

And 5d6 Sense Vitals. And lots of empower/maximize rods/other items. And maximize+Empower 3xday.

Doesn't Maximize only work on Spell damage? Most of AT's damage comes from Sneak Attacks, so Maximize only works on damage from spells directly, reducing its effectiveness greatly (specially for Ice Storm, i.e. Maximized 5d6 = 30), no?

 

[Desiderius]

You only need to rely on common loots for the gold in the early games - when the chapter 2 begins, there are much better way to make gold. Make sure you keep all items in "notable section" because one of the characters in your barony will pay you good amount of gold for those.

Also, try not to carry around too much rations in the early games since they weigh a lot. I'd say max 12 rations if you plan to go with full 6 party members.

(1) Buy bags of holding first before any other purchase (there’s a cheap one at lone house)

(2) Always rest if possible outside so you can hunt and cook.

(3) Cook delayed fatigue meal when you get it (galt ragout also gives Val +2 to hit). Onion soup is also good to give Jub +3 skills, pancakes speed up Linzi, and Shepherd’s Pie gives Tristan bigger mass heals.

(4) Hunt and use rations at the same time. Have a toon who is high on nature lore for this purpose. Always have enough rations on hand to cover the party or you risk doubling testing time.

(5) During regular traveling don’t use stealth while resting. More fights = more exp, loot.

 

[ArchAngel]

Who is the strongest caster in the game?

An kineticist with magma deadly earth + cloud can put ludicrous amount of damage / round

I won't deny that. However for burst damage and damage per round, a wizard or sorcerer Arcane Trickster has them beat. An illusionist can beat them in aoe instant death dealing. Of course mage resources are limited.

No lol, my Kineticists was doing 500 damage with empowered maximised Deadly Earth in huge AoE with no save. Nothing Arcane Trickster has can beat that.
That death illusion spell only works vs some enemies that have weaker saves and does not work on golems and others.

It sounds a bit high for a single power in a single round. Damage for a maximized empowered composite blast should be 12 x 15 + stat mod, let's say 15 or even 30. Halved for deadly earth ticks (although it's applied twice in the first round - on activation and on round finish). About ~100 x2. Though activation should be actually less.
And doing maximized empowered deadly earth costs burn.
Now you can come closer to 500 in a round if you stack both deadly earth and Cloud - a lot of burn if both are maxed.
But actually an AT can do more in 2 rounds. My unoptimized AT at level 17 or 18 was sometimes doing 270 aoe damage per spell. He can cast 2 such spells in 2 rounds, plus 2 more quickened weaker ones.

Yeah, Kineticist powers last many rounds... But really, what enemies survive more then 2 - 3 rounds?

More importantly, AT attacks are often party friendly or can be aimed not to hurt allies.
But once a Kin conjures a death zone, the rest of the party better stay the fuck out. Fine if you solo, I guess.

It does not cost burn if you do multiround casting by using Gather Power which is easily done as combat opener (also a reason why Kineticist is OP because Gather Power should be a loud effect that should activate enemies in range to come and attack your party).
OK damage was maybe not 500 but it was enough to one shot normal Wild Hunt and 2 shot Rulers. With no saves or resists. Even SR does not help as it is physical damage so I killed Golems and others as well with it.

 

[Haplo]

And 5d6 Sense Vitals. And lots of empower/maximize rods/other items. And maximize+Empower 3xday.

Doesn't Maximize only work on Spell damage? Most of AT's damage comes from Sneak Attacks, so Maximize only works on damage from spells directly, reducing its effectiveness greatly (specially for Ice Storm, i.e. Maximized 5d6 = 30), no?

Yes. Still, an empowered Ice Storm deals 2 x 50+ damage in a huge aoe, no save.

Example what level 17 Octavia can do:

 

[Cryomancer]

Sneak attack is broken in this game...

Anyway, What are your wishlists for PF:KM 2? IMO

• Maintain 1e ruleset
• Implement fly and climb
• Creation of an NWN1 like engine who allow custom modules
• More spells, incendiary cloud, black tentacles, etc
• Make sneak attack more pnp like and less broken
• Meet the decendants of your companions in the future
• Possibility to import your save from the first game and play as an descendant of the stolen lands king
• Large scale combat rules
• More summons. I wanna summon an harem of succubus or an army of demons
• More easily moddable.
• More races, dhampirs, half dragons, etc
• An story that makes sense for an chaotic good or lawful evil main char, like the first game

Even if they don't implement this things, i will buy and play the game, but they are my wishlist items.

 

[Sykar]

Less stat bloat would be a good start.

 

[Efe]

a 4x increase for prestige and 2x increase for normal to available classes