Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[razvedchiki]

It’s almost enough stats in melee to be worth it, but it’s still zero BAB, boring, and there are so many better things to do.

You could just play a legit Vivi with a Scoundrel splash for image and DEX to dam, with dodge from rogue talent.

Nah vivis are evul,i i just wanna stack ac as much as i can cause my witcher will also tank.
I want the curved elven blade because its its only way for a 2hander build to reliably tank with dex/wis/robe.
Of course a 2handed build with greataxe will do much more dmg but it wont last in the front line in hard.

 

[razvedchiki]

Also make sure to grab rogue lvls(except first) AFTER slayer's lvl 10, this way you'll be able to get advanced rogue talents, instead of regular feats.
And due to Divine Slayer's bonus dmg implementation you'll get way more dmg, but it works the same way as old additional sneak attacks, and may be considered as bug abuse.

Im going to use closer to tabletop mod so no sneak attack abuse.

 

[ArchAngel]

It’s almost enough stats in melee to be worth it, but it’s still zero BAB, boring, and there are so many better things to do.

You could just play a legit Vivi with a Scoundrel splash for image and DEX to dam, with dodge from rogue talent.

Nah vivis are evul,i i just wanna stack ac as much as i can cause my witcher will also tank.
I want the curved elven blade because its its only way for a 2hander build to reliably tank with dex/wis/robe.
Of course a 2handed build with greataxe will do much more dmg but it wont last in the front line in hard.

In my chaotic run (main is CN and I only use chaotic companions) I made a eldritch rogue with elven curved blade. It is pretty good. All spells are defensive or support, dex to damage and a fair collection of rogue abilities.

 

[ArchAngel]

Considering I don't own Varnhold or last DLC, what would be good one handed weapon to build my defense paladin around?
I cannot remember weapons that give bonus AC and that I can take to endgame. Considering the character using it will be a paladin that can put more enchantments on it, it can be a bit lacking with offensive enchantments.

Also for two handed barbarian, it seems that greatsword is best so I can use the one from the tomb? Maybe Fauchard might be useful but I rely on getting the one from the master which is not always reliable.

Scroll Savant wizard I guess cannot use feats to boost scroll use (neither DC or spell pen), seems using scrolls is then best for buffs and defensive spells and spell slots for CC or damage spells? I cannot decide which school specialization to pick. Conjuration has useful spells, but Evocation has nice school bonuses. Nice thing is that scrolls will still be available to me no matter what opposing schools I pick.

Tomb sword is Bastard I believe. You can get +3 Fauchard lying on the ground at Rinderpest before Vordokai or +2 with frost from depths. There’s another two from artisan other than Mastery which are very good.

Unclear who you’d be reaching over though in a four man with no pets or summons.

Who said no summons? Scroll Savant can whip out a summon at any point :D

 

[panda]

Nah vivis are evul,i i just wanna stack ac as much as i can cause my witcher will also tank.
I want the curved elven blade because its its only way for a 2hander build to reliably tank with dex/wis/robe.

That is not quite true, you'll get exactly same bonuses with duelling sword. Can save a couple levels too by taking 1 Swordlord lvl instead of 3 Rogue lvls if you wish.
In fact, if you want as much AC as possible then dueling sword is probably better choice due to full compatibility with Duelist class. Character will end up having something like 60 touch AC without a single temporary buff and won't lose Slayers's sneak dmg progression due to equivalent from Duelist kit.

 

[razvedchiki]

That is not quite true, you'll get exactly same bonuses with duelling sword. Can save a couple levels too by taking 1 Swordlord lvl instead of 3 Rogue lvls if you wish.
In fact, if you want as much AC as possible then dueling sword is probably better choice due to full compatibility with Duelist class. Character will end up having something like 60 touch AC without a single temporary buff and won't lose Slayers's sneak dmg progression due to equivalent from Duelist kit.

I wrote about 2handed,slashing grace doesnt work with 2handers( dueling sword is one handed).

 

[Desiderius]

Nah vivis are evul,i i just wanna stack ac as much as i can cause my witcher will also tank.
I want the curved elven blade because its its only way for a 2hander build to reliably tank with dex/wis/robe.

That is not quite true, you'll get exactly same bonuses with duelling sword. Can save a couple levels too by taking 1 Swordlord lvl instead of 3 Rogue lvls if you wish.
In fact, if you want as much AC as possible then dueling sword is probably better choice due to full compatibility with Duelist class. Character will end up having something like 60 touch AC without a single temporary buff and won't lose Slayers's sneak dmg progression due to equivalent from Duelist kit.

The play for DEX Curve Blade is building around Combat Reflexes, since your attacks of opportunity hit harder than a one-hander and your crit range can generate a lot for the rest of your team via Outflank and Seize the Moment.

Bodyguard skill from Divine Guardian (Paladin) level three uses potential attacks of opportunity to give another toon + 4AC whenever they’re attacked, so if you combine that with a team that generates a lot of actual attacks and a two-hander that can put some muscle (and Debilitating Strike with an optional Brutal Beating) behind each one, Combat Reflexes with 26 DEX starts to look really good.

If you want just straight up sneak attack damage you’re better off going two-weapon to get twice as much.

 

[Desiderius]

Considering I don't own Varnhold or last DLC, what would be good one handed weapon to build my defense paladin around?
I cannot remember weapons that give bonus AC and that I can take to endgame. Considering the character using it will be a paladin that can put more enchantments on it, it can be a bit lacking with offensive enchantments.

Also for two handed barbarian, it seems that greatsword is best so I can use the one from the tomb? Maybe Fauchard might be useful but I rely on getting the one from the master which is not always reliable.

Scroll Savant wizard I guess cannot use feats to boost scroll use (neither DC or spell pen), seems using scrolls is then best for buffs and defensive spells and spell slots for CC or damage spells? I cannot decide which school specialization to pick. Conjuration has useful spells, but Evocation has nice school bonuses. Nice thing is that scrolls will still be available to me no matter what opposing schools I pick.

Tomb sword is Bastard I believe. You can get +3 Fauchard lying on the ground at Rinderpest before Vordokai or +2 with frost from depths. There’s another two from artisan other than Mastery which are very good.

Unclear who you’d be reaching over though in a four man with no pets or summons.

Who said no summons? Scroll Savant can whip out a summon at any point :D

True, true. He’ll need to without a Bard or traditional tank, but that’s pretty much the point. I wish you luck good sir.

 

[Desiderius]

It’s almost enough stats in melee to be worth it, but it’s still zero BAB, boring, and there are so many better things to do.

You could just play a legit Vivi with a Scoundrel splash for image and DEX to dam, with dodge from rogue talent.

Nah vivis are evul,i i just wanna stack ac as much as i can cause my witcher will also tank.
I want the curved elven blade because its its only way for a 2hander build to reliably tank with dex/wis/robe.
Of course a 2handed build with greataxe will do much more dmg but it wont last in the front line in hard.

In my chaotic run (main is CN and I only use chaotic companions) I made a eldritch rogue with elven curved blade. It is pretty good. All spells are defensive or support, dex to damage and a fair collection of rogue abilities.

Yeah, that was my first main character, except with Dueling Sword instead of Curve Blade. Went for Duelist levels late trying to get Parry and Riposte to work, but wasn’t good enough at the game yet. Also had Precise Strike teamwork skill on everyone, which was where I started to get skeptical about whether sneak attacks were broken after all.

 

[AliceAlcina]

I have been playing Pathfinder Kingmaker for quite a while, but I try to exit my comfort zone and try something new, especially on class department
How does this sound, as multiclass
slayer, fighter, duelist, stalwart defender?

 

[Desiderius]

Here's Linzi interrupting an Insane Wizard who was about to summon an army of 1d4+2 Axiomites with a reach Sound Burst. Tristian takes the opportunity to pummel the stunned (and thus flat-footed) wizard with a Snowball and five other assorted slugs.



The Meek will have their Vengeance soon. Very soon.

 

[panda]

That is not quite true, you'll get exactly same bonuses with duelling sword. Can save a couple levels too by taking 1 Swordlord lvl instead of 3 Rogue lvls if you wish.
In fact, if you want as much AC as possible then dueling sword is probably better choice due to full compatibility with Duelist class. Character will end up having something like 60 touch AC without a single temporary buff and won't lose Slayers's sneak dmg progression due to equivalent from Duelist kit.

I wrote about 2handed,slashing grace doesnt work with 2handers( dueling sword is one handed).

Well, technically dueling sword is indeed one handed.
But in practice as i've said if you are going to use it as 2hander without shield or another weapon you'll end up with stats literally identical to a ECB user(including full 1.5 dex to dmg and +3 to dmg form power attack instead of +2).

 

[Haplo]

Not literally. ECB is d10, dueling sword is d8.

 

[panda]

Not literally. ECB is d10, dueling sword is d8.

Well, you won't e.g. receive 2h fighter archetype bonuses too, but comon...

 

[Haplo]

Well, once you apply Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, that's 8 maximum damage more (and 4 average damage higher). Not game breaking, but not irrelevant either.

If you use Vital Strike, that's even more pronounced.

 

[Desiderius]

That is not quite true, you'll get exactly same bonuses with duelling sword. Can save a couple levels too by taking 1 Swordlord lvl instead of 3 Rogue lvls if you wish.
In fact, if you want as much AC as possible then dueling sword is probably better choice due to full compatibility with Duelist class. Character will end up having something like 60 touch AC without a single temporary buff and won't lose Slayers's sneak dmg progression due to equivalent from Duelist kit.

I wrote about 2handed,slashing grace doesnt work with 2handers( dueling sword is one handed).

Well, technically dueling sword is indeed one handed.
But in practice as i've said if you are going to use it as 2hander without shield or another weapon you'll end up with stats literally identical to a ECB user(including full 1.5 dex to dmg and +3 to dmg form power attack instead of +2).

DEX to damage needs more testing. Double slice works even though it says STR, as you can see on Maegar Varn’s starting build on DLC.

Looks like it’s just a way to make finesse builds non-embarassing damage-wise since strength gets all the easy boosts.

 

[panda]

Well, once you apply Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, that's 8 maximum damage more (and 4 average damage higher). Not game breaking, but not irrelevant either.

If you use Vital Strike, that's even more pronounced.

Damn, you right. It is quite large bonus i'd even say.

Though i tend not to use Legendary Proportions on such Dex characters due to -2 to hit penalty.
E.g. for ECB 1d10 vs 3d8 means +7 avg per hit, but when regular strikes deal 100 dmg i'm for some reason too willing to believe that char will land one more attack once in two rounds and this single stike will outshine avg gains in the end.
Maybe it is wrong, but i can't do nothing with myself.

 

[razvedchiki]

Well, once you apply Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, that's 8 maximum damage more (and 4 average damage higher). Not game breaking, but not irrelevant either.

If you use Vital Strike, that's even more pronounced.

Vital strike can be used constantly?

 

[Desiderius]

Well, once you apply Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, that's 8 maximum damage more (and 4 average damage higher). Not game breaking, but not irrelevant either.

If you use Vital Strike, that's even more pronounced.

Though i tend not to use Legendary Proportions on such Dex characters due to -2 to hit penalty.

That's why he recommends not bothering with finesse in the first place. I'd have to need a boatload of attacks of opportunity before I could even begin to have a defensible case for the dex build.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, once you apply Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades, that's 8 maximum damage more (and 4 average damage higher). Not game breaking, but not irrelevant either.

If you use Vital Strike, that's even more pronounced.

Vital strike can be used constantly?

It's a standard action, so once per round. Good on a turn where you need to move or use a move action like Freebooter's Bane. Backup for Great Cleave when fighting single targets.

Here's an example:



My MC had already used her move action to put Freebooters Bane on that Zombie, so she used her Standard Action for Vital Strike. She's 11th level so has Improved Vital Strike (x3), she's using a Greataxe (2d6) with Lead Blades and Enlarge Person (from Jubilost), both Extended since she wants them always on, which ends up 4d6x3 = 12d6 with the Vital Strike.



It's also nice that you get your full attack bonus, where iterative attacks would be -5 and -10.

 

[Desiderius]

People tell me Okbo can't tank unfair.



Guess they're right.

 

[razvedchiki]

So with mods that change sneak attack dmg to be closer to tabletop i will have to put someone behind a mob which is already engaged frontally correct?
hhaha if owlcat implemented the tabletop rule about flanking people would go beserk after all the multiclass abominations sneak attack abuse builds would be rendered obsolete.

 

[Shadenuat]

idk what mods u use but Vital Strike is Full Round, so worthless even in TB. Cleave is Standard. and when fully upgraded, enlarged, reach weaponed is pretty powerful, fairly similar to TOEE.

 

[Haplo]

Right, forgot that for some reason it was implemented as Full round in vanilla. Fortunately Turn Based mod's author was so kind to fix this (this change can be deactivated).
Were it not for this, it'd be a worthless feat. As a Standard action at least its situational.

 

[Desiderius]

idk what mods u use but Vital Strike is Full Round, so worthless even in TB. Cleave is Standard. and when fully upgraded, enlarged, reach weaponed is pretty powerful, fairly similar to TOEE.

Huh, yep full round. Learned it from Haplo, looked it up on d20, and never bothered to check in game.

You can tell I’m mostly using (Great) Cleave and Charge. Bane, target dies from range, Charge to next target.

It did go off pretty fast in that pic, doesn’t feel like full action (like Dazzling definitely does now).

Back to the Respec shop. Running unmodded until we’re sure of no more updates.