Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Efe]

no worries.
Lets leave reddit and steam back there and start fresh here

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Pink Eye Nobody cares. You're bloating this thread with histrionics.

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre. Does this class bloom late? I now have Jubilost at Level 8, but am unimpressed. Right now he kind of feels like a lesser bard. From guides I've read, thus far he's built optimally. Some general advice to the class would be appreciated.

 

[Desiderius]

Pink Eye Nobody cares. You're bloating this thread with histrionics.

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre. Does this class bloom late? I now have Jubilost at Level 8, but am unimpressed. Right now he kind of feels like a lesser bard. From guides I've read, thus far he's built optimally. Some general advice to the class would be appreciated.

Grab a bomb for each save and make him your main buffer/debuffer. He’s the only one who can give out Shield and Expeditious Retreat, his Barkskins are max level, and only he can give out Echolocation (keeps Okbo from getting flatfooted all the time in Womb). His DCs will be the highest in your group and he eventually makes a decent archer if you take ranged feats and use his Mutations to buff his DEX.

Making him the buffer (for Haste, for instance) frees up slots for offensive casters (Bard Casting Slow).

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Pink Eye Nobody cares. You're bloating this thread with histrionics.

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre. Does this class bloom late? I now have Jubilost at Level 8, but am unimpressed. Right now he kind of feels like a lesser bard. From guides I've read, thus far he's built optimally. Some general advice to the class would be appreciated.

You're right at where it blooms. Fast bombs, force bombs, and curse bombs (which should be your level 8, 10, and 12 discoveries) are all incredibly strong. You will be able to nuke any enemy in the game (nothing is resistant to force) with big damage while simultaneously imposing strong debuffs. Plus alchemists can give nice personal buffs like shield to allies.

 

[Desiderius]

Pink Eye Nobody cares. You're bloating this thread with histrionics.

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre. Does this class bloom late? I now have Jubilost at Level 8, but am unimpressed. Right now he kind of feels like a lesser bard. From guides I've read, thus far he's built optimally. Some general advice to the class would be appreciated.

You're right at where it blooms. Fast bombs, force bombs, and curse bombs (which should be your level 8, 10, and 12 discoveries) are all incredibly strong. You will be able to nuke any enemy in the game (nothing is resistant to force) with big damage while simultaneously imposing strong debuffs. Plus alchemists can give nice personal buffs like shield to allies.

I’ve found Force Bombs, Choking Bombs and Fast Bombs to be overpowered, although the burn rate on Fast Bombs offsets that somewhat. Curse Bombs are your bread and butter since just about nothing is immune.

 

[Efe]

so you make octavia and linzi specialized archers but not jubilost?

 

[Lambach]

Let us see if I get banned from here too.

Short of posting straight-up illegal shit here, you'll have to try real hard to accomplish that.

 

[Desiderius]

so you make octavia and linzi specialized archers but not jubilost?

I have/had Linzi in melee. Jub’s main attack is his Bombs, but you’ve got more rounds than bombs so his backup is best available Xbow. Currently have him on Neutralizer*.

Octavia is archer to get more sneaks in and save spells for hard fights. Jub has more Bombs than Octavia has spells. I’ve got MC ES this playthrough so I’ve got Octavia on Dueling Sword Saint.

* - almost to Alchemist 16/Freebooter 4 which will let me drop Amiri if I want and give him fourth base attack.

 

[Daidre]

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre.

Alchemists are also quite well supported by the items. There are:
- leather armor for +2 Attack with bombs
- 2 rings for + 1d6 bomb damage, easy to get from Bokken since his pool of Alchemical Items is so small
- unique bracelet, for another + 1d6 to all bombs, among the ton of other bonuses

Those allow them to stack some serious bomb damage well ahead of their planned PnP power curve.
Also, bombs is probably most reliable mean to deal with tougher, high level optional enemies early, most of whom has inflated AC (40-45+) and bombs are technically Range Touch. Behind some summons to tank for party, 8 lvl Jubi with Fast Bombs could probably nuke Lynnworm with Acid Bombs alone (4 per round, with Rapid Shot and Haste), where most melees can barely scratch it due to huge AC and DR.

And casting personal buffs on party just sends class from cool to broken.

 

[Desiderius]

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre.

Alchemists are also quite well supported by the items. There are:
- leather armor for +2 Attack with bombs
- 2 rings for + 1d6 bomb damage, easy to get from Bokken since his pool of Alchemical Items is so small
- unique bracelet, for another + 1d6 to all bombs, among the ton of other bonuses

Those allow them to stack some serious bomb damage well ahead of their planned PnP power curve.
Also, bombs is probably most reliable mean to deal with tougher, high level optional enemies early, most of whom has inflated AC (40-45+) and bombs are technically Range Touch. Behind some summons to tank for party, 8 lvl Jubi with Fast Bombs could probably nuke Lynnworm with Acid Bombs alone, where most melees can barely scratch it due to huge AC and DR.

And casting personal buffs on party just sends class from cool to broken.

Similar to Gadgeteer in Wiz 8.

 

[Daidre]

Similar to Gadgeteer in Wiz 8.

Gadgeteer takes enough time to go from luggage to the god, this allows to keep classes more a less fare. And he is much more of the luggage next to another late bloomer, Bishop.
Low level Alchemist is... well, probably best bet for Slayer of Bears achiev, among the other things that could indicate its raw power.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The should just create Owlbear and Wild Hunt Scout classes ftw.

 

[ArchAngel]

That aside, can someone clue me in to the Alchemist? I have read many times that they are exceptional, but right now I'm finding them mediocre.

Alchemists are also quite well supported by the items. There are:
- leather armor for +2 Attack with bombs
- 2 rings for + 1d6 bomb damage, easy to get from Bokken since his pool of Alchemical Items is so small
- unique bracelet, for another + 1d6 to all bombs, among the ton of other bonuses

Those allow them to stack some serious bomb damage well ahead of their planned PnP power curve.
Also, bombs is probably most reliable mean to deal with tougher, high level optional enemies early, most of whom has inflated AC (40-45+) and bombs are technically Range Touch. Behind some summons to tank for party, 8 lvl Jubi with Fast Bombs could probably nuke Lynnworm with Acid Bombs alone (4 per round, with Rapid Shot and Haste), where most melees can barely scratch it due to huge AC and DR.

And casting personal buffs on party just sends class from cool to broken.

And lets not forget that all bombs are considered non magical attacks and completely ignore SR of all enemies. That plus touch attack makes them one of the most reliable attacks in the game vs any kind of threat.

 

[Trashos]

The charisma spell/potion/headband don't stack with each other, so I used the +4 CHA headband that gave me +2 Persuasion for a new Persuasion score of 10. So I needed to roll an 18 to reach 28. I do not see what else was there to use.

There are Heroism potions for +2 all skills that could be used from the world map, I use them sometime to help me... erm, scam some ultra high DCs. Same with Eagle Splendor potions. That will free slot for another +2 all skills on Professor's top hat that stacks with Heroism.

Ah, true, I should have used Heroism, I missed that!

I did not have the Professor's hat. I did not remember its effects. True, it is another option for those who have it.

I did use the equivalent of the potion (+4 Charisma headband).

Note that I am not complaining, that incident was some pretty good C&C. It almost ended my playthrough (very dishonorably, I might add), but I think it was fair. If I had needed to succeed in 2 skill checks in a row, that would have probably been game over, but fortunately one check was enough to save me.

Likewise on those previous checks (Bart can also help you with the surgery

Yes, I had him there. He is my Diplomat. I was not happy with Linzi last time, so I moved her to culture, which should be her cup of tea.

while feeding your Machiavellianism fetish at the same time)

I like Tsanna as Councilor, she prefers neutrality in proletariat/bourgeois dilemma and has some unique options in stat upgrade dialogues. Surprisingly nice to her pack for CE priestess, although I had not tried her as High Priest yet.
Similar to CE Reg, who works nicely even for Lawful baronies as General - excellent STR and main conflict of this role has nothing to do with alignments.

Agreed, Reggie is an excellent General.

Good to hear that Tsanna is not useless as a Councilor. I plan to use her as a substitute for Shandra, when Shandra takes her short "vacation". (Shandra rocks, btw)

 

[ga♥]

I am playing tenebrous depth for the first time (during the main campaign). I am lvl10... is it normal to find wild hunts and ghosts wtf (fifth floor or smthing)?

You can get the cool gloves without fighting the WH dude (sixth floor). Fire giant zombies can be a challenge early too. Don’t really need much past Mesmerizing Robe (lvl 8).

Aren't the levels random generated? IIRC the WH was in the middle of the way to go to the lower level. No much chances to avoid the fight. What gloves are you talking about?

 

[Pink Eye]

I am playing tenebrous depth for the first time (during the main campaign). I am lvl10... is it normal to find wild hunts and ghosts wtf (fifth floor or smthing)?

You can get the cool gloves without fighting the WH dude (sixth floor). Fire giant zombies can be a challenge early too. Don’t really need much past Mesmerizing Robe (lvl 8).

Aren't the levels random generated? IIRC the WH was in the middle of the way to go to the lower level. No much chances to avoid the fight. What gloves are you talking about?

The levels are not randomly generated for the main campaign. This is only true for the standalone version.

 

[Desiderius]

Similar to Gadgeteer in Wiz 8.

Gadgeteer takes enough time to go from luggage to the god, this allows to keep classes more a less fare. And he is much more of the luggage next to another late bloomer, Bishop.
Low level Alchemist is... well, probably best bet for Slayer of Bears achiev, among the other things that could indicate its raw power.

Yeah, I meant more that there are so many unique items that the completionist in me feels like I almost have to have one in the party.

 

[ga♥]

I am playing tenebrous depth for the first time (during the main campaign). I am lvl10... is it normal to find wild hunts and ghosts wtf (fifth floor or smthing)?

You can get the cool gloves without fighting the WH dude (sixth floor). Fire giant zombies can be a challenge early too. Don’t really need much past Mesmerizing Robe (lvl 8).

Aren't the levels random generated? IIRC the WH was in the middle of the way to go to the lower level. No much chances to avoid the fight. What gloves are you talking about?

The levels are not randomly generated for the main campaign. This is only true for the standalone version.

Well. Then they are.. horrible? I really thought that being so ugly and empty meant they were random generated.

 

[Desiderius]

I am playing tenebrous depth for the first time (during the main campaign). I am lvl10... is it normal to find wild hunts and ghosts wtf (fifth floor or smthing)?

You can get the cool gloves without fighting the WH dude (sixth floor). Fire giant zombies can be a challenge early too. Don’t really need much past Mesmerizing Robe (lvl 8).

Aren't the levels random generated? IIRC the WH was in the middle of the way to go to the lower level. No much chances to avoid the fight. What gloves are you talking about?

+4 to ranged attacks

 

[Pink Eye]

I am playing tenebrous depth for the first time (during the main campaign). I am lvl10... is it normal to find wild hunts and ghosts wtf (fifth floor or smthing)?

You can get the cool gloves without fighting the WH dude (sixth floor). Fire giant zombies can be a challenge early too. Don’t really need much past Mesmerizing Robe (lvl 8).

Aren't the levels random generated? IIRC the WH was in the middle of the way to go to the lower level. No much chances to avoid the fight. What gloves are you talking about?

The levels are not randomly generated for the main campaign. This is only true for the standalone version.

Well. Then they are.. horrible? I really thought that being so ugly and empty meant they were random generated.

Trust me. I know this. The developers could have done a better job. It is one of the weakest DLC. Speaking of which, we do have a user that is trying to salvage it.

 

[Trashos]

Bloody hell! I think I am beginning to realize the full extend of Nyrissa's punishment.

I am in Lamashtu's pussy, and I just spoke with the gnome again. The gnome talks about how I have so much in common with Nyrissa. What the hell, what do I have in common with Nyrissa? Is he out of his mind?

Then it dawned on me.

Spoiler

Nyrissa "sought a Kingdom", and for this hybris she was punished by the Lantern King to destroy 1000 kingdoms. In other words, Nyrissa was tasked to seek atonement BY DESTROYING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE HER, people who wanted to be kings! Metaphorically, she had to destroy herself a thousand times over!

In addition: at the end of Chapter 7 (and now I definitely have to play Ch7 again), the Lantern King made a remark to Nyrissa that she was too obedient (I do not remember his exact words). I think his point was that she did not deserve a kingdom, because she did not have the attitude required for the position.

Therefore, not only was Nyrissa tasked to destroy "herself" a thousand times over, but this also served to remind her *a thousand times over* that she did not deserve a kingdom!

Man, this game is turning into an all time favorite for me. So much stuff going on, it is insane. I do not think I have ever seen anything like it in a game before. I have trouble accepting that this game actually exists.

 

[Daidre]

Yes, I had him there. He is my Diplomat. I was not happy with Linzi last time, so I moved her to culture, which should be her cup of tea.

I wonder how much gold little cutie will bleed from your barony on useless fancies before you decide that enough is enough and some people should be kept away from any responsibility and decision-making.

Talking about kingdom roles, I like how much companion's characterization could be found in their adviser's work. I was pretty meh about Valerie from her "adventuring" opinions but as it turned out, that classic education was not completely wasted on her and made her into top-notch Regent and solid Diplomat.

And about Councillors, main thing that bothers me about Shandra, and stops me from choosing her, is that you need to grovel before Surtova to keep her for end game, when not neutral, and that a huge no for me.

 

[Trashos]

I wonder how much gold little cutie will bleed from your barony on useless fancies before you decide that enough is enough and some people should be kept away from any responsibility and decision-making.

I expect that you will be proven right. I am just trying to fill as many positions as possible with companions, to avoid the training. But I also have a backup plan: If Linzi goes all Linzi again, her replacement is right down the hallway: the Storyteller was my Curator last time, and he was very decent.

And about Councillors, main thing that bothers me about Shandra, and stops me from choosing her, is that you need to grovel before Surtova to keep her for end game, when not neutral, and that a huge no for me.

I was happy enough collaborating with the Surtovas last time. There were significant boons, and I did not notice any practical disadvantages. But yes, I will have to design my government differently when I decide to go independent.

Also, note that Shandra is all trickle down economics and "pay attention to the powerful first" (in a wise manner, not disgustingly). It works well, but it will have to be your cup of tea too.

Talking about kingdom roles, I like how much companion's characterization could be found in their adviser's work. I was pretty meh about Valerie from her "adventuring" opinions but as it turned out, that classic education was not completely wasted on her and made her into top-notch Regent and solid Diplomat.

Agreed!

 

[Desiderius]

What advantages are there to a non-Linzi diplomat?

 

[Thonius]

That mage dude is kinda bro. He is more neutral then evil to be fair.