Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Nerevar]

Wow bard can give you a +2 and the enemies a -2.

I'm not using Linzi this playthrough and I've noticed that you do hit a wall a bit in trying to pass skillchecks the rest bonus and inspire competence really are needed.

 

[DalekFlay]

While I'm glad that you won the fight and that you got great experience from the game, I am kind of puzzled. Trolls are strong, but not very bright brutes; you fought them before the Trobold; you know that will is their weakest saving throw. So for me it would have been quite obvious to take a caster with lots of spells targeting will saves.

Because of my setup Octavia was the only real caster I had, and she was focused on transmutation (acid) and fire rays. Fire didn't hurt the trolls, so acid was all I had, and her haste stuff of course. I did have bless, cat, bull, haste and all that other stuff going, but Tristian didn't have many enemy nerfs or crowd control stuff. Linzi was doing all of that until 5 minutes beforehand. If I lost the fight a half dozen more times I would have gone back to town and planned it better, but it was a fun challenge beating it how I was.

 

[Desiderius]

Wow bard can give you a +2 and the enemies a -2.

I'm not using Linzi this playthrough and I've noticed that you do hit a wall a bit in trying to pass skillchecks the rest bonus and inspire competence really are needed.

All partywide (key):

lvl 5 - Courage gives +2 AB/+2 Dam (competence, unique effects only available to Barbs AB only via Lethal Stance and Archer's Gloves)
lvl 6 - Fascinate CC half (or more) of enemies each fight, can keep both up with Lingering Performance
lvl 7 Good Hope +2AB/+2 DAM/+2 skills (morale, so stacks with Courage, more or less group Heroism), Slow (group stagger = no iteratives, move or act)
lvl 8 Dirge of Doom -2AB/-2AC/-2 DAM/-2saves for all enemies

so net +6 and group CC just from those 4 levels.

 

[Nerevar]

So you would suggest taking lingering performance and extra songs on bard?

 

[Desiderius]

While I'm glad that you won the fight and that you got great experience from the game, I am kind of puzzled. Trolls are strong, but not very bright brutes; you fought them before the Trobold; you know that will is their weakest saving throw. So for me it would have been quite obvious to take a caster with lots of spells targeting will saves.

Because of my setup Octavia was the only real caster I had, and she was focused on transmutation (acid) and fire rays. Fire didn't hurt the trolls, so acid was all I had, and her haste stuff of course. I did have bless, cat, bull, haste and all that other stuff going, but Tristian didn't have many enemy nerfs or crowd control stuff. Linzi was doing all of that until 5 minutes beforehand. If I lost the fight a half dozen more times I would have gone back to town and planned it better, but it was a fun challenge beating it how I was.

Really should take Harrim over Tristian too since he has quest ther and has big bonus v trolls.

 

[DalekFlay]

Really should take Harrim over Tristian too since he has quest ther and has big bonus v trolls.

Yeah I'm not sure if I can still take him and the alchemist there for quests or not, but I don't like to meta-game. I like to play things out naturally if I can, so when I met the archer and he was like "let's go" and I got a warning about my town's stats, I just went for it. I'm not complaining about the challenge, I enjoyed it.

 

[Yosharian]

So you would suggest taking lingering performance and extra songs on bard?

Fuck Extra Songs. Lingering Performance is a must-have feat for bards.

 

[Erebus]

All partywide (key):

lvl 5 - Courage gives +2 AB/+2 Dam (competence, unique effects only available to Barbs AB only via Lethal Stance and Archer's Gloves)
lvl 6 - Fascinate CC half (or more) of enemies each fight, can keep both up with Lingering Performance
lvl 7 Good Hope +2AB/+2 DAM/+2 skills (morale, so stacks with Courage, more or less group Heroism), Slow (group stagger = no iteratives, move or act)
lvl 8 Dirge of Doom -2AB/-2AC/-2 DAM/-2saves for all enemies

so net +6 and group CC just from those 4 levels.

I was under the impression that, if you started a new bardic performance, the effects of the previous one immediately stopped. Can you get the effects of both at the same time thanks to Lingering Performance ?

 

[Yosharian]

I was under the impression that, if you started a new bardic performance, the effects of the previous one immediately stopped. Can you get the effects of both at the same time thanks to Lingering Performance ?

That's how it's SUPPOSED to work. But in Kingmaker, the previous performance is not cancelled. However, LP would still be a must-have feat even without this bug, because it really stretches your Bardic Performance rounds over the course of an adventuring 'day'.

 

[ga♥]

Spoiler

Real men don't use bards

 

[Desiderius]

I was under the impression that, if you started a new bardic performance, the effects of the previous one immediately stopped. Can you get the effects of both at the same time thanks to Lingering Performance ?

That's how it's SUPPOSED to work. But in Kingmaker, the previous performance is not cancelled. However, LP would still be a must-have feat even without this bug, because it really stretches your Bardic Performance rounds over the course of an adventuring 'day'.

It's clunky enough to actually pull off - often precluding you from casting the spell you were counting on - that I'm fine with it working this way. You spent the feat on Lingering (you're already feat starved since you need a lot of help to deal decent damage/land your spells), you should get the benefit.

The power is how many unique group-wide effects you have.

 

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

Real men don't use bards

Says the Gay Liturgist

 

[Desiderius]

Really should take Harrim over Tristian too since he has quest ther and has big bonus v trolls.

Yeah I'm not sure if I can still take him and the alchemist there for quests or not, but I don't like to meta-game. I like to play things out naturally if I can, so when I met the archer and he was like "let's go" and I got a warning about my town's stats, I just went for it. I'm not complaining about the challenge, I enjoyed it.

It's not metagaming. The game tells you which companions have quests in certain areas. It's a good idea to just follow that, plus it adds variety to the game. Ekun, Harrim, and Jub all have a quest there. Those three and Linzi could clear the whole dungeon on unfair on their own.

 

[Desiderius]

So you would suggest taking lingering performance and extra songs on bard?

Fuck Extra Songs. Lingering Performance is a must-have feat for bards.

Linzi starts with Extra. MC Bard can't afford it, but Lingering is a must. They finally fixed Archaeologist so that it works on his song, which is why I'm back playing. My first MC finally works as intended.

 

[Desiderius]

Harrim isn't metagaming hotshot. I'm the only one who uses half his abilities and he's still a pain in the ass to keep alive.

 

[Yosharian]

Basically just get used to activating Inspire Courage and then deactivating it as soon as it comes online. (Unless it's a boss fight of course.) That way your rounds last a hell of a lot longer.

 

[Efe]

do you actually micro songs to spend 1 use per 3 rounds or just turn it on and off immediately?

 

[JDR13]

Multiple songs up at once, while simultaneously fighting/casting.

Wowza. Imagine if we could have done that in the IE games.

 

[Yosharian]

do you actually micro songs to spend 1 use per 3 rounds or just turn it on and off immediately?

Press the button, press it again as soon as it comes online. Sometimes takes a moment because your bard might be in the middle of doing something else.

If the fight lasts longer than 3 rounds then repeat.

 

[Xamenos]

do you actually micro songs to spend 1 use per 3 rounds or just turn it on and off immediately?

Turning it on and off immediately IS how you micromanage songs to spend 1 use per 3 rounds.

 

[Desiderius]

Multiple songs up at once, while simultaneously fighting/casting.

Wowza. Imagine if we could have done that in the IE games.

I tried to do a SCS BG run and it was too annoying that my MC could either sing or fight/cast.

 

[Desiderius]

do you actually micro songs to spend 1 use per 3 rounds or just turn it on and off immediately?

Press the button, press it again as soon as it comes online. Sometimes takes a moment because your bard might be in the middle of doing something else.

If the fight lasts longer than 3 rounds then repeat.

It doesn't go nearly that smoothly, especially on the earlier lvls when turning on a song is a standard or move action. Even after you get Irovetti's Armor and it's supposed to be Free Action the game often takes its sweet time.

Main benefit is starting combat with Courage + Dirge/Fascinate up for a round or two.

 

[Yosharian]

Irovetti's Armor does nothing for Bardic Performance

 

[DalekFlay]

It's not metagaming. The game tells you which companions have quests in certain areas. It's a good idea to just follow that, plus it adds variety to the game.

Just FYI, you can take them there after clearing it out with no issues, takes like 2 minutes.

 

[Desiderius]

It's not metagaming. The game tells you which companions have quests in certain areas. It's a good idea to just follow that, plus it adds variety to the game.

Just FYI, you can take them there after clearing it out with no issues, takes like 2 minutes.

No, it takes traveling across the map and back, which for you could be two years.