Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

You need to actually CHECK. Sword Saint suffers a two level delay in its spell progression compared to magus

As Claw explained progression is normal with one fewer cast per level, like Crusader.

Confirmation:

You can right click on a level in the level-up screen and it will tell you what spells you get at each level.

Look man, your life will be a lot easier if you'd just except that Hap is smarter than me, I'm smarter than you, and you're smarter than InEffect.

No dishonor in that. Whisper might actually be smarter than me but he's had his head so far up his ass it's hard to tell. You're pretty much stuck where you're at.

 

[NJClaw]

You need to actually CHECK. Sword Saint suffers a two level delay in its spell progression compared to magus

This is not true, a Sword Saint simply has one less slot per level:

Spoiler

Normally, a level 4 Magus has 3 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slot, so a level 4 Sword Saint has 2 level 1 slots and 0 level 2 slots. However, both benefit from the bonus spell slots from their Intelligence score: if they have at least Int 14, the Magus will have 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 2 slots, while the SS will have 3 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slot.

 

[NJClaw]

Look man, your life will be a lot easier if you'd just except that Hap is smarter than me, I'm smarter than you, and you're smarter than InEffect.

Haplo can't be smarter than you, because he likes the Slayer class, and that's a very low IQ class. I'm sorry, Haplo, that's the truth and you have to deal with it. Someone had to open your eyes.

 

[The_Mask]

As clunky and buggy as the turnbased mode is in its current state, man is it great to fight the bigger battles in tb mode.

I beat the troll dungeon with no rests. And I'm willing to bet that with the Kameberry Pie going, I can beat V's dungeon with no rests as well.

I'm loving this new Arcanum spin on things.

 

[Anthedon]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/announcements/detail/2889577613579100069

This patch is live now, as version 2.1.2b. I didn't get 2.1.2 at all.

Please be aware of plot spoilers in the description below!

Areas

• Fixed the issues with the characters’ movement in Ravaged Capital — Entrance.
  
• Fixed the issue when it was impossible to exit the Abandoned Keep after you completed the Betrayer's Flight quest.
  
• Fixed the issue when Tristian was stuck at Candlemere Tower during the Betrayer's Flight quest.
  
• The algorithm that determines the point to switch between locations has been changed and should now fix the error with exiting some zones.

Quests

• Fixed the issue when it was impossible to complete the Nok-Nok and the Great Mother quest if you entered the Goblin Clearing without Nok-Nok.
  
• Fredero Sinnet could die during the duel with Valerie. Resolution: fixed.
  
• After the duel of Valerie and Fredero, Ekundayo’s wolf became uncontrollable. Resolution: fixed.
  
• When talking to Ivar at the Lake Silverstep Village the second time, he could attack your character. Resolution: fixed.

Classes & Mechanics

• When the character wielded nothing in the main hand and a weapon (or a shield with the Shield Bash feat) in the off-hand, the iterative attacks with the off-hand weapon didn’t occur. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Resurrection and Raise Dead sometimes failed to work. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Locket of Magic Missile Mastery didn’t work on the Force Missile ability. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Confusion didn’t have any effect on enemies. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Bardic Performance failed to switch to a new song as fast as it should. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Lingering Performance allowed the character to gain benefits from multiple songs at the same time. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Sensei Advice: Diamond Soul didn’t work. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Draconic Mettle, which belongs to the monk's Scaled Fist archetype, had no bonuses against fear effects. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Some Blindness effects lacked descriptions. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Weapon enhancements of magi and paladins had no visual effect on characters. Resolution: fixed. Now the weapon enhancement duration is shown with a special effect.
  
• The Wild Energies spell failure chance was affecting potions. Resolution: fixed. Potions are now safe to use.
  
• Nereids' Beguiling Aura failed to provide immunity for 24 hours after a successful save. Resolution: fixed.
  
• Charges from quivers were spent at a double rate. Resolution: fixed.

Turn-Based Mode

• In the Stag Lord’s Fort, if the enemy ran to ring the bell, the enemy’s turn couldn’t end in turn-based mode.
  
• In the PC version, you couldn’t switch actions in turn-based mode when you hovered your mouse over an enemy with an unused touch spell.
  
• Full-round spells weren’t applied during the current turn if they were targeted outside their range, within a 5-foot step.

Miscellaneous

• The character’s movement stopped before it should when the camera was centered on the active character and in some other cases.
  
• Irrelevant messages were displayed in the log on mouse-hover over a trap by a character with a low Trickery skill level.
  
• Fixed the character’s movement in the throne room when seated.
  
• An animal companion wouldn’t get up after it fell in combat. Resolution: fixed.
  
• An error during an attempt to save the game could corrupt the previous save. Resolution: fixed. Now the saving error does not affect the previous game save.

https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/640820/view/2889577613579259559

 

[Haplo]

You need to actually CHECK. Sword Saint suffers a two level delay in its spell progression compared to magus

This is not true, a Sword Saint simply has one less slot per level:

Spoiler

Normally, a level 4 Magus has 3 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slot, so a level 4 Sword Saint has 2 level 1 slots and 0 level 2 slots. However, both benefit from the bonus spell slots from their Intelligence score: if they have at least Int 14, the Magus will have 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 2 slots, while the SS will have 3 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slot.

NJClaw has perfectly explained it. 14 starting Int with a +8 item end game (22 total) should offer 2 bonus level 2 spell slots.
Although it might be that you're not wrong either, Yosharian. I seem to recall mention of some bug that was stunting the SS progression at level 4. Hopefully that was either a mistake (due to 0 spell slots at that level) or its fixed.

 

[Yosharian]

Let me elaborate at great length because I have nothing better to do.

Here is the base Magus spell progression:

Spoiler

Here is the ability score bonus table for spellcasters:

Spoiler

1. A Magus at 4th level gets 1 2nd-level spell and 1 BONUS 2nd-level spell from 14 Intelligence. You can check this by reducing your INT to 12.
2. At 5th level, a Magus gets 2 2nd-level spells and 1 BONUS 2nd-level spell from 14 Intelligence. (or no bonus 2nd-level spells from 12 Intelligence)
3. At 6th level, a Magus gets 3 2nd-level spells and 1 BONUS 2nd-level spell from 14 Intelligence. (or no bonus 2nd-level spells from 12 Intelligence)
   
4. At 7th level, a Magus gets 3 2nd-level spells and 1 BONUS 2nd-level spell from 14 Intelligence. (or no bonus 2nd-level spells from 12 Intelligence)
   
5. At 8th level, a Magus gets 4 2nd-level spells and 1 BONUS 2nd-level spell from 14 Intelligence. (or no bonus 2nd-level spells from 12 Intelligence)

Now for Sword Saint. I've literally just gone into Kingmaker two minutes ago and checked this. I edited my INT to 12 and levelled the character up to level 8 Sword Saint. The results:

1. A Sword Saint at 4th level gets 0 2nd-level spells.
   
2. A Sword Saint at 5th level gets 0 2nd-level spells.
   
3. A Sword Saint at 6th level gets 1 2nd-level spells.
   
4. A Sword Saint at 7th level gets 2 2nd-level spells.
   
5. A Sword Saint at 8th level gets 3 2nd-level spells.

Conclusion: a Sword Saint is TWO LEVELS behind a Magus in terms of spell progression.

Also: 22 INT nets you two bonus spells of 2nd-level, so a 4th level Sword Saint with 22 INT has only two casts of Mirror Image. Which is probably fine. Personally I prefer more casts. Also also, if you only have 4 levels of SS then you are capped at +4 to your Intelligence bonus to AC.

 

[Haplo]

Thank you for testing, Yosharian. So the behavior at level 5 is probably the bug I've read about.
As far as I know, one spell slot is missing only then.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm not entirely sure that it's a bug, I think it might be working as intended, possibly it was intended to counterbalance the relative power of the class, although it doesn't really work due to how easy it is to get a bonus spell with 14 INT

In any case my original comment was that I wasn't entirely sure if the SS actually got access to 2nd-level spells at 4th level, but it does

 

[Haplo]

It is a bug, IMO. It never happens for other spell levels AFAIK.

Oh well, one can live without 1 level 2 slot.

 

[Yosharian]

It is a bug, IMO. It never happens for other spell levels AFAIK.

It could still be intended as a deliberate nerf.

 

[NJClaw]

Let me elaborate at great length because I have nothing better to do.

Joke's on you, I have literally nothing to do!

Conclusion: a Sword Saint is TWO LEVELS behind a Magus in terms of spell progression.

Again, no. A Sword Saint is not "two levels" behind a Magus in terms of spell progression. This is the same character of my previous screenshot, but at level 3:

Spoiler

She has 3 level 1 slots: one of them is from Int 16, so she has 2 base slots. It's the normal number of slots of a level 3 Magus minus one, not the number of slots of a level 1 Magus (which is 1). She is not two levels behind a Magus.

This is the same character, but at level 7:

Spoiler

She has 4 level 1 slots: one of them is from Int 16, so she has 3 base slots. It's the normal number of slots of a level 7 Magus minus 1, not the number of slots of a level 5 Magus (which is 4). She is not two levels behind a Magus.

This is at level 8:

Spoiler

Still 3 level 1 base slots.

This is at level 9:

Spoiler

She gains her 4th level 1 slot, because a level 9 Magus has 5 level 1 slots.

She also has 3 level 3 slots: one is from her Int 16, so she has 2 base level 3 slots. It's the total number of slots of a level 9 Magus minus 1, not the number of slots of a level 7 Magus (which is 1).

I think that that missing level 2 slot at level 5 is just a minor bug, everything else seems to line up.

 

[Yosharian]

You're not listening, so I give up.

 

[NJClaw]

You're not listening, so I give up.

I'm listening, Yosh. It's just that a Sword Saint isn't two levels behind a Magus in terms of spell progression. As I showed you, a level 9 Sword Saint has 2 level 3 base slots, and that's not "two levels behind a Magus in terms of spell progression".

Unless by "spell progression" you just mean the highest spell level a SS has access to... but that's not what "spell progression" usually mean.

 

[Yosharian]

You need to examine the spell progression table more closely

 

[Desiderius]

You need to examine the spell progression table more closely

Paladin Spell Progression is both slow (advancing every three levels instead of two, like a Bard or Inquisitor) and delayed (no spells until level four no matter how high it's CHR is).

Sword Saint is not delayed, rather it gets one less slot per level than Magus, as Crusader gets one less than Cleric. With high enough INT, you can cast Mirror Image at SS4 (the original question) while Pal 4 cannot cast second lvl Pal spells even with 22 CHR.

 

[Yosharian]

One last try:

 

[Desiderius]

Thank you for testing, Yosharian. So the behavior at level 5 is probably the bug I've read about.
As far as I know, one spell slot is missing only then.

He's still going off of PnP tables, isn't he?

 

[NJClaw]

You need to examine the spell progression table more closely

I'm examining it as close as I can:

A level 7 Magus has 1 level 3 slot.
A level 9 Magus has 3 level 3 slots.
A level 9 Sword Saint has 2 level 3 slots. That's not "two levels behind a Magus", it's one slot less.

You are only considering level 2 slots. Look at level 1 and 3 too, they are not coherent with the "two level behind" thing.

 

[Yosharian]

PnP magus spell progression is the same as Kingmaker's

 

[Desiderius]

One last try:

Which wasn't the original question, but thanks for playing. Does look like they're trying to do that, but if so they botched it since you can get spells early via bonus spells while Ranger, etc, can't.

 

[Yosharian]

You need to examine the spell progression table more closely

I'm examining it as close as I can:

A level 7 Magus has 1 level 3 slot.
A level 9 Magus has 3 level 3 slots.
A level 9 Sword Saint has 2 level 3 slots. That's not "two levels behind a Magus", it's one slot less.

You are only considering level 2 slots. Look at level 1 and 3 too, they are not coherent with the "two level behind" thing.

Obviously I meant with regard to 2nd-level slots since they are what Haplo's build is focused around

 

[Desiderius]

You were concerned about casting Mirror Image at SS4, which his build does.

 

[Desiderius]

Look man, your life will be a lot easier if you'd just except that Hap is smarter than me, I'm smarter than you, and you're smarter than InEffect.

Haplo can't be smarter than you, because he likes the Slayer class, and that's a very low IQ class. I'm sorry, Haplo, that's the truth and you have to deal with it. Someone had to open your eyes.

I did a whole playthrough, my best plathrough, with a Slayer MC. I switched to ES late since Dispelling Strike was bugged, but still.

 

[Desiderius]

As clunky and buggy as the turnbased mode is in its current state, man is it great to fight the bigger battles in tb mode.

I beat the troll dungeon with no rests. And I'm willing to bet that with the Kameberry Pie going, I can beat V's dungeon with no rests as well.

I'm loving this new Arcanum spin on things.