Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[NJClaw]

Obviously I meant with regard to 2nd-level slots since they are what Haplo's build is focused around

My bad then, didn't want to bother you for nothing. In my defense, you literally never said that you were only talking about level 2 slots:

You need to actually CHECK. Sword Saint suffers a two level delay in its spell progression compared to magus

Conclusion: a Sword Saint is TWO LEVELS behind a Magus in terms of spell progression.

I thought you were talking about the entire spell progression of the class.

Still, it seems to me that this "two levels behind" stands true only for the 2nd level 2 slot you should gain at level 5. For example, according to this theory a level 10 Sword Saint should have 4 level 2 base slots:

Spoiler

Instead, she still has 3:

Spoiler

Same thing at level 11, still 3 base level 2 slots:

Spoiler

At level 12, she gains her 4th slot, coherently with the "just one slot less" theory:

Spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm, not sure how much min-max or lore friendliness is expected. And what are your favorite classes.
And whether you want enemy Intimidation to be a part of the build or not (I've assumed not - and someone else will - so took Shatter Defenses).
And whether you're okay with robes, or prefer steel.
Anyhow how about this:

Freebooter Cleaver for Desiderius and Whisper

Lawful Alignment for monk dip. Lawful Good for +5AC Protector robes would be nice.
Assuming a human:
Str: 17+5
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

Lvl 1: Freebooter: /Freebooter's Bane +1/; Power Attack; Combat Reflexes
Lvl 2: Freebooter: Combat Style - Two-Handed: Cleave
Lvl 3: Freebooter: Cleaving Finish
Lvl 4: Freebooter: /Free: Freebooter's Bond/
Lvl 5: Freebooter: /Freebooter's Bane +2/; Outflank
Lvl 6: Freebooter: Combat Style - Two-Handed: Great Cleave
Lvl 7: Traditional Monk: Improved Cleaving Finish; Monk Bonus: Crane Style
Lvl 8: Sword Saint: /Free: Weapon Focus: Greataxe or Bastard Sword/
Lvl 9: Thug: Dazzling Display
Lvl 10: Thug: Combat Trick: Improved Critical Greataxe or Bastard Sword
Lvl 11: Thug: /Brutal Beating/ Shatter Defenses
Lvl 12: Thug: /Debilitating Injury, Uncanny Dodge/; Combat Trick: Vital Strike
Lvl 13: Sword Saint: Improved Vital Strike
Lvl 14: Sword Saint: /Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy/
Lvl 15: Sword Saint: /Perfect Strike/Critical; Mirror Image/; Blind Fight
Lvl 16: Freebooter
Lvl 17: Freebooter: Seize the Moment
Lvl 18: Freebooter
Lvl 19: Freebooter: /Freebooter's Bane +3/; Greater Vital Strike; Combat Style: Two Handed: Critical Focus
Lvl 20: Freebooter: /Quarry and 1 2nd level spell slot/ OR could do Monk2 with Bonus Feat

Important spells:
Ranger Spells: Lead Blades
Sword Saint spells: Mirror Image, Enlarge, Shield, True Strike (with Lesser Quicken Rod).
Liberal use of Lesser Extend Rod advised.

Rationale for Thug: If someone in the party is Intimidating the enemies (or they are "flanked"), with Great Cleave they get aoe debuffed with Debilitating Injury and Brutal Beating (Sickened). Plus Uncanny Dodge does wonders for survivability. I guess a variant could be made to make this char use Intimidation... but having the enemies run away when you want to Cleave them would suck.

Rationale for Sword Saint: Mainly Perfect Strike & Perfect Critical. A great fit for Vital Strike. The Arcane Pool might be shallow (late game with Int boosting items about 8 AP), but that's still enough to down a few bosses with some lucky Greater Vital Strike crits. Personally I enjoy big numbers. Also a boon defensively: Canny Defense will add +4 AC, can self buff with the almighty Mirror Image (twice with end game items and 22 Int), Shield, Enlarge. Rod Quickened True Strike to nova bosses. Can use wands - in fact liberal use of Mage Armor and Cat's Grace wands is recommended until you get better items.

Sword Saint spell progression is heavily delayed. You might want to check if you actually get Mirror Image at 4th level

If you had actually CHECKED, you'd see it right there. I mean don't lecture people about shit you didn't do yourself and you'd be fine.

 

[razvedchiki]

is it worth for a slayer to go dual wield? my current slayer mc is dual wielding falcatas, and with prodigious dual wield feat from call of the wild mod i can dual non light weapons like a 9th lvl fighter from lvl 1.
my off hand very rarely hits, thinking though that with the additions of to hit with items/buffs/feats i will hit more frequently.

 

[Desiderius]

Question remains: how would 10 dmg reduction would help you when you are crit at lvl 6 for 208 damage on Unfair?

We now know it precedes the doubling so you'd take 188 instead, which may not kill a toon by the time I'd be casting it (lvl 13).

 

[Desiderius]

Since you get Sneaks and Studied Target bonuses on every hit (and Studied Target helps Piranha Strike hit) Slayer is probably the best class for dual-wielding, though fighter can do it on unmodded.

 

[NJClaw]

The rest arguing with you seem to have never played PnP to understand or appreciate the difference.

What. What you said in your post is exactly what I said in mine:

I think he is pointing out that a Sword Saint has fewer slots than the base Magus. At level 4 he should have 0 level 2 slots, so he would need at least Int 14 (already covered by the build) to be able to cast Mirror Image at least once per day.

NJClaw

Slayer is a pretty damn powerful class

I know, it was just a joke based on the fact that I don't really like the class from a "flavor" perspective. Or do you really think that I was unironically saying that the Slayer is "a low IQ class"?

 

[Technomancer]

can summon nymphs for harem purposes

Ngl nymphs are actually pretty hot.

 

[Desiderius]

You're not listening, so I give up.

Yosh you are correct in as much that the SS does not gain a level 2 spell defacto at char. level 4. However. They are still entitled to a *bonus* spell at that level. They are *potentially able* to cast level 2 spells at level 4.

The rest arguing with you seem to have never played PnP to understand or appreciate the difference.

NJClaw

Slayer is a pretty damn powerful class whose only real weakness is lack of good Will saves. Easily fixed by going through a path of angel blooded aasimar with two levels of Pala.

Nah, just stay at range and don’t worry about it. Hard to get a spell off when you’re being lit up by a ranged Slayer. Improved Quarry is too good to give up. So smooth in this game. No reason to be stacking CHR in the first place.

Splashing for stats is just bad news.

 

[Xamenos]

can summon nymphs for harem purposes

Ngl nymphs are actually pretty hot.

Gas the fey, don't stick your dick in them.

 

[Desiderius]

Smite evil is fantastic for ranged chars. You should definitely get it to slay bosses.

If you want to play a Pal, play a Pal.

Slayer isn't a CHR-based class. This isn't D&D 3.5

If only I had Smite Evil!

 

[Desiderius]

Sometimes range isn't enough. There you need some luck:

Or I could have remembered to put Death Ward on my MC like I did on all the other toons. Was close to giving him Shake it Off last level up. Maybe should have (was afraid he wouldn't be close enough to other toons). Here's the other Summon from Create Undead:

Looks like Freebooter's Bond is working now. Also picking up Haste and Burst of Glory so now getting all group buffs. Vord has DR 15/bludgeoning so Smilo does full.

Blinding Bomb pretty damn good at 30DC (using Cognatogen). Not entirely sure it did anything since the Tristian cutscene started shortly after this after which he was strangely cured.

Here you go, Whisper, I managed not to bring enough Diamond Dust for Stoneskin but would have been nice to have to cut 20 off of that Boneshatter. Saved by Burst of Glory HP and Bear's Endurance, Mass. Should have probably sung Inspire Greatness for an added cushion.

Harbinger is also bludgeoning (as is Preacher's Warhammer) so we were set up well for Vord.

 

[Whisper]

We now know it precedes the doubling so you'd take 188 instead, which may not kill a toon by the time I'd be casting it (lvl 13).

Your own screen.
18 level fighter with 148 hp. Fighter. 18 level.
Non-fighter lvl 13 "may"?

And 208 is crit is from mob that you would fight at lvl 6 (Varnhold). Higher level mobs will hit for more.

 

[Whisper]

Here you go, Whisper, I managed not to bring enough Diamond Dust for Stoneskin but would have been nice to have to cut 20 off of that Boneshatter. Saved by Burst of Glory HP and Bear's Endurance, Mass. Should have probably sung Inspire Greatness for an added cushion.

Stoneskin prevents 10 dmg from weapon, not spells.

 

[Desiderius]

We now know it precedes the doubling so you'd take 188 instead, which may not kill a toon by the time I'd be casting it (lvl 13).

Your own screen.
18 level fighter with 148 hp. Fighter. 18 level.
Non-fighter lvl 13 "may"?

And 208 is crit is from mob that you would fight at lvl 6 (Varnhold). Higher level mobs will hit for more.

Very few do. I’m not sure what pic you’re referring to but you can see lvl 13 Linzi surviving a big hit above without Aid, Stoneskin, or Inspire Greatness. HP padding spells are good action economy and a must for Ironman type play even if you do occasionally come across something that powers thru them all. I have a shot somewhere of Farrinas lighting up Jewb for 400 damage.

 

[Desiderius]

Here you go, Whisper, I managed not to bring enough Diamond Dust for Stoneskin but would have been nice to have to cut 20 off of that Boneshatter. Saved by Burst of Glory HP and Bear's Endurance, Mass. Should have probably sung Inspire Greatness for an added cushion.

Stoneskin prevents 10 dmg from weapon, not spells.

Feel better about forgetting it then. Needed it more for Undeath to Death, although Tristian’s Max Fireballs filled in nicely.

 

[Desiderius]

We now know it precedes the doubling so you'd take 188 instead, which may not kill a toon by the time I'd be casting it (lvl 13).

Your own screen.
18 level fighter with 148 hp. Fighter. 18 level.
Non-fighter lvl 13 "may"?

And 208 is crit is from mob that you would fight at lvl 6 (Varnhold). Higher level mobs will hit for more.

Well that’s too early to even cast Stoneskin. Mobs like those (Hargulkas) the whole point is to disable them and not try to go toe to toe. The lvl 19 Zombie Giants will one shot you, but the 15s shouldn’t if you play smart.

There are only a few of the big guys, so you can take you time with those. Non-zombies are easy to attack via Will.

The guy’s original point was that he used Stoneskin a lot and it is good crit protection against regular mobs since it requires no action economy and they hit somewhere close to killing you when they crit so marginal HP are big.

 

[Doktor Best]

The inventory REALLY needs a keyword search. I am going full hoarder on consumables of course because hey you could be locked in a dungeon and need all that shit. Now each time i am looking for something specific i have to look through all my potions and scrolls. Is there some mod maybe for this?

 

[Whisper]

Very few do. I’m not sure what pic you’re referring to but you can see lvl 13 Linzi surviving a big hit above without Aid, Stoneskin, or Inspire Greatness. HP padding spells are good action economy and a must for Ironman type play even if you do occasionally come across something that powers thru them all. I have a shot somewhere of Farrinas lighting up Jewb for 400 damage.

This

View attachment 14510

 

[Desiderius]

She’s wearing no equipment other than her Falcatas. Those icons are all KM stuff, so no buffs either. I was testing builds by respeccing a save (that one was just after Advanced Weapon Training was added for Fighters).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

So, cleave/cleaving finish is legit? I have to say I assumed it's mostly trash cleaner that wanes past early game, not to mention requiring a lot of feats and ac debuff.

 

[Haplo]

Its not bad if you can deal high damage per hit. Usually it's not as good as a Full Attack. But particularly in the Turn Based mode, you don't get to Full Attack every round as a melee and then its solid. Also some characters have other uses for the Move Action (like Freebooter's Bane), so then again, having strong Standard actions is very good.

 

[Desiderius]

So, cleave/cleaving finish is legit? I have to say I assumed it's mostly trash cleaner that wanes past early game, not to mention requiring a lot of feats and ac debuff.

For Freebooters yeah since you’re using your Move Action for Freebooter’s Bane you’re not getting Full Attacks usually anyway. Cleave is a Standard Action so fits well. Other Standard Actions to consider are the Vital Strike line, Combat Maneuvers, or Spells and Abilities.

Standard Actions in general are better than they look for melee toons since they need to move a lot. If you watch your Combat Log by midgame Ranged toons will show up more than melee. That’s because they’re getting full attacks in (iteratives) because they don’t have to move.

Why would it take AC debuff? You’re hitting everything at full BAB. The main prereq is fighting Enlarged/Legendary and/or with Reach so you can hit everything. Enlarge effects turn out to be really strong anyway (see Haplo) so you’re not losing much.

It does take a lot of feats, but you can skip some prereqs using Combat Style Feats. I usually just use best available Two-hander so don’t need Weapon Focus.

 

[Syme]

Obviously I meant with regard to 2nd-level slots since they are what Haplo's build is focused around

My bad then, didn't want to bother you for nothing. In my defense, you literally never said that you were only talking about level 2 slots:

You need to actually CHECK. Sword Saint suffers a two level delay in its spell progression compared to magus

Conclusion: a Sword Saint is TWO LEVELS behind a Magus in terms of spell progression.

I thought you were talking about the entire spell progression of the class.

Still, it seems to me that this "two levels behind" stands true only for the 2nd level 2 slot you should gain at level 5. For example, according to this theory a level 10 Sword Saint should have 4 level 2 base slots:

Spoiler

Instead, she still has 3:

Spoiler

Same thing at level 11, still 3 base level 2 slots:

Spoiler

At level 12, she gains her 4th slot, coherently with the "just one slot less" theory:

Spoiler

Yes, one slot less is how it should be. The Sword Saint is just a renamed Kensai archetype minus Fighter Training and with Iaijutsu renamed to Lightning Strike. It says so clearly on the srd and I guess this text didn't make it into Kingmaker, along with decent spell progression tables.

 

[LannTheStupid]

There is an outstanding Russian youtuber who built a character of 8th (or 7th?) level with 0 BAB to discourage reckless multiclassing. It was fun to watch.

Do share.

https://youtu.be/K26zlcuNpIM?t=1031

 

[Anthedon]

Does anyone know what exactly the "Friend of Many" (Succeed in three 'Kingdom as Companion' quests) achievement entails? I've only found conflicting information about it online.