Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Trashos]

Cleric of Asmodeus,

I think that you win something and you lose something with the monk dip, and it is not that straightforward. The game content is gated, so the player gets to the locations at certain levels. Would I rather have the monk dip there or another level of spells? It is complicated. Same goes for Vivisectionist dips or whatever dips.

I am doing a Sword Saint playthrough, and I did take the monk dip early. Then I regretted it, then I liked it again. I finally decided that if I do another Sword Saint playthrough, I will again take the monk dip, but much later (after I have the crucial spells that I absolutely want).

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Oh I forgot thug archetypes which Valerie and Linzi can do quite well, too.

 

[razvedchiki]

Tristian is fine as a cleric and quite powerful although his ecclessitheurge primary domain is less fun than it could be. I am also personally triggered by it and you might not suffer from such autism.

you can make him a fire based mystic theurge, he will eventually have lots of magic missiles/burning arcs/fireballs etc to cast.
what dmg he will do though with those casts depends on the difficulty you play.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I tried that out and it had a long dull stretch where I was a stunted cleric with some level 1-2 Arcane spells. Seems kind of scuffed compared to either an arcane trickster getting sneak attacks or an ecclesitheurge taking fire as primary and loading up on a dozen scorching rays, fireballs, and controlled fireballs. Not just in a power gaming sense, but seems like a more boring variation of those themes. When playing vanilla I just had Tristian pure cleric in VTomb on channel duty with his touchy buffs, occasional dazzling display for normies, and the generic high level cleric spells and buffs. Seemed fine.

In general Tristian is the only vanilla character build that is kind of objectionable to me because it takes the fun and creative part of Ecclesitheurge, being able to use domain spells in ordinary spell slots, and erases it by choosing domains that don't offer any unique spells that you couldn't take in those slots anyways. In fact, they seemed to have made Ecclesitheurge one of the few archetypes that is hard to get off the ground without the MC or a merc because the characters with high Wis are locked into a primary domain already.

Perhaps they consider it OP, which is probably not wrong, but picking your domains for an Eccles is one of the more fun character building options available in the rule set, imo. I've already played around with 3 or so Eccles builds and they've all had a different feel to them. Fire gives you a ton of rays and fireballs at levels 2-4. Weather gives Scirocco, Air gives you shout and chain lightning. Water gives you stinking cloud if you decide you don't want to actually play the game [/trollface]. Some of the domain powers are really neat like trickeries invis, madness aura, and so on. Some unique effects in there. You could probably build a party with 6 cleric archetypes and have a more interesting party than many other configurations.

Anyways, I just change him to fire primary now and it's fun as hell. I will take my 10 fireballs, thanks.

 

[Whisper]

There's supposed to be a pop up asking you which save to import at this point. Did you not get it?

When exactly it happens?

 

[Xamenos]

There's supposed to be a pop up asking you which save to import at this point. Did you not get it?

When exactly it happens?

At the start of the chapter when you get that letter. It's been a while and I don't remember if it was right then or just a bit after, but it certainly wasn't much later.

 

[Whisper]

There's supposed to be a pop up asking you which save to import at this point. Did you not get it?

When exactly it happens?

At the start of the chapter when you get that letter. It's been a while and I don't remember if it was right then or just a bit after, but it certainly wasn't much later.

Letter from Aldori asking to investigate?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

never played an evil MC

 

[Trashos]

never played an evil MC)

By now, I play strictly Lawful Evil in Kingmaker. I would have been playing Lawful Neutral if I had wanted to play myself, but where else am I going to get the chance to play Lawful Evil? Without missing half the quests because of it too?

Not straying away from Lawful as a King, though.

 

[NJClaw]

never played an evil MC

An evil playthrough makes zero sense to me in this game. I mean, sure, there are a couple of cool evil advisors, but everything else just doesn't add up. Baldur's Gate? Sure. Icewind Dale? Why not. Kingmaker? Nah.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

never played an evil MC

An evil playthrough makes zero sense to me in this game. I mean, sure, there are a couple of cool evil advisors, but everything else just doesn't add up. Baldur's Gate? Sure. Icewind Dale? Why not. Kingmaker? Nah.

I'd say that it makes the least amount of sense in BG1. Especially with how caricatural it is and the PC's backstory as a cloistered youth.

 

[Trashos]

Evil did not make much sense in Baldur's Gate 2 in gameplay terms, because the questlines did not support it very well.

I do not remember BG1 that well.

Evil makes perfect sense in Kingmaker, why not? Lawful Evil, eg, is a perfectly practical political attitude FOR RULERS that exists all over the globe.

 

[Desiderius]

Frankly, other than a few minor things, the only thing that building with the companions base class really bar is the cheeky monk dips for everyone InEffect style stuff. While I think that the game sort of encourages this derangement because of it's heavy emphasis on touch attackers making armor less effective, I don't think it's necessary and just means you are always your class - 1 lvl which is kind of anti-fun.

I don't change the base stats or alignment of the companions and don't allow myself any of that. I guess I can do whatever with the MC and went ahead with a monk level for this Slayer but I might just spec him into heavy armor and onslaught or something after some more playtesting.

Let me let you in on a secret:

The touch attack thing is all hype. You don’t need Touch AC and building around it significantly gimps builds.

 

[Desiderius]

Evil did not make much sense in Baldur's Gate 2 in gameplay terms, because the questlines did not support it very well.

I do not remember BG1 that well.

Evil makes perfect sense in Kingmaker, why not? Lawful Evil, eg, is a perfectly practical political attitude FOR RULERS that exists all over the globe.

OK, Alexander Pope Is/Ought conflator.

You’re not ready for the non-rhetorical version of that question.

 

[Desiderius]

never played an evil MC

An evil playthrough makes zero sense to me in this game. I mean, sure, there are a couple of cool evil advisors, but everything else just doesn't add up. Baldur's Gate? Sure. Icewind Dale? Why not. Kingmaker? Nah.

I'd say that it makes the least amount of sense in BG1. Especially with how caricatural it is and the PC's backstory as a cloistered youth.

What are you talking about? It’s all y’all’s cloistered youths and refusal to grow up that drew you to Evil in the first place. No grown man who’s had any experience in the world and worth a good God damn has any patience for it.

Evil is for suckers. There’s always a bigger asshole.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

never played an evil MC

An evil playthrough makes zero sense to me in this game. I mean, sure, there are a couple of cool evil advisors, but everything else just doesn't add up. Baldur's Gate? Sure. Icewind Dale? Why not. Kingmaker? Nah.

I'd say that it makes the least amount of sense in BG1. Especially with how caricatural it is and the PC's backstory as a cloistered youth.

What are you talking about? It’s all y’all’s cloistered youths and refusal to grow up that drew you to Evil in the first place. No grown man who’s had any experience in the world and worth a good God damn has any patience for it.

Evil is for suckers. There’s always a bigger asshole.

The bowed head the sword does not cut, yet nor does the sun shine upon it. Might is right, vae victis and all that.

Spoiler

Although I also enjoy my LG righteously violent playthroughs of RPGs.

 

[Trashos]

Evil is for suckers. There’s always a bigger asshole.

No, there isn't, when you are the King. That's the point of it.

Anyway, Lawful Evil still has strict rules. Almost all the strict systems throughout history that lasted have been lawful evil. Personally, I 'd say nature itself is lawful evil.

 

[The_Mask]

When you chase Tsana at the cottage, and you wanna scoop whodunit, instead of investigating you can Chaos it up and watch them rat on each other in a most hilarious fashion.
Also... barbarian revolt is super cool.

Don't underestimate the power of Chaos.

 

[Desiderius]

Tristian Scion/MT was fun and more or less soloed Pitax Palace with it using Redeemer, but then I fell in love with doing 350 damage a hit with him two-handed and gave that up.

The super secret mode is Feyspeaker/MT on Reg after you change his alignment but that was probably more trouble than it was worth.

Tristian does just fine Ecc straight-up whacking things with Serpent Prince and roasting things with maxxed Fire spells and Undeath to Death on Ghosts.

 

[Desiderius]

Evil is for suckers. There’s always a bigger asshole.

No, there isn't, when you are the King. That's the point of it.

Anyway, Lawful Evil still has strict rules. Almost all the strict systems throughout history that lasted have been lawful evil. Personally, I 'd say nature itself is lawful evil.

Two millennia and counting, motherfucker.

Deus Vult

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Evil is for suckers. There’s always a bigger asshole.

No, there isn't, when you are the King. That's the point of it.

Anyway, Lawful Evil still has strict rules. Almost all the strict systems throughout history that lasted have been lawful evil. Personally, I 'd say nature itself is lawful evil.

Two millennia and counting, motherfucker.

Deus Vult

I'd consider Abrahamic faiths as being lawful evil as well since they decree that man should suppress his natural instincts.

 

[Trashos]

Deus Vult

Note that I consider Byzantium to have been Lawful Evil.
I am Greek and culturally Christian, btw, it is not that I dislike Byzantium. Rome was softer and lasted 1000 years less.

 

[Xamenos]

I'd consider Abrahamic faiths as being lawful evil as well since they decree that man should suppress his natural instincts.

No, a thousand times no. No matter what you've been told, homosexuality is NOT a natural instinct.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'd consider Abrahamic faiths as being lawful evil as well since they decree that man should suppress his natural instincts.

No, a thousand times no. No matter what you've been told, homosexuality is NOT a natural instinct.

It is a natural instinct for a defective individual.

I'm not talking about homosexuality in particular though, but of morality in itself being enforced not out of pragmatic concerns (at which point it is no longer a matter of morality but of sound policy), but rather out of preexisting religious beliefs.

 

[LannTheStupid]

No grown man who’s had any experience in the world and worth a good God damn has any patience for it.

Hitler was a "cloistered youth". TIL.

Also, all hail to Godwin's law!