Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

I mean if your Spell Pen is too low do you lose the damage from the energy half of the composite blasts?

I found Composite Blasts were good for spikes as you say but impractical for regular use (especially if you want to use an infusion as well or want to get iteratives with Blade) before say lvl 12 and they really don’t go off until Composite Specialization at 16.

I know how to target AoEs, I use Eruption for Kanerah, I’m just saying that persistent effects are both way too good and too bad due to the AI on both sides not avoiding them and the lack of clear demarcation of where exactly they begin and end.

 

[Desiderius]

The ultimate design for the Twins is to design both at the same time so that one can be a physical blast healer/restorer and the other am energy blast debuffer say and you can switch them out as needed on the fly.

 

[The_Mask]

I changed the stats to make them more consistent (34 point buy on Kanerah??) and more focused in their main stat. Sometimes that means losing points overall.

Outflank DOES work for ranged attacks.

Using Dirge/Frightful Aspect to inflict Shaken, obviously.

Thanks for the other recommendations

Bro, this is RPG Codex. For shit like this go on Resetera, or some shit.

 

[Xamenos]

I mean if your Spell Pen is too low do you lose the damage from the energy half of the composite blasts?

I found Composite Blasts were good for spikes as you say but impractical for regular use (especially if you want to use an infusion as well or want to get iteratives with Blade) before say lvl 12 and they really don’t go off until Composite Specialization at 16.

I know how to target AoEs, I use Eruption for Kanerah, I’m just saying that persistent effects are both way too good and too bad due to the AI on both sides not avoiding them and the lack of clear demarcation of where exactly they begin and end.

Ah, no. The game isn't that complicated. Composite blasts work the same as fully physical single-element blasts. It doesn't matter that half is energy damage, SR does nothing for them. It would be hard to keep track in tabletop otherwise.

I don't remember levels exactly, but I had composites on autocast after a while. They were always better than a metamagiced single-element blast. And before that they were excellent battle openers, in addition to spikes. Full-round gather doesn't matter when it's done outside of combat.

I won't disagree that persistents were too good, enemy AI really should be running out of them if at all possible. Did they fix that in the WotR alpha, by any chance?

The ultimate design for the Twins is to design both at the same time so that one can be a physical blast healer/restorer and the other am energy blast debuffer say and you can switch them out as needed on the fly.

You're saying that because you haven't seen how fast even the Spawn melts when you put double Wall/Deadly Earth/Cloud underneath it.

 

[Yosharian]

Huh. It actually doesn't work on ranged.

It is still worth taking though because when the ranged attacker crits, allies who are flanking get an AOO. Even though those crits are relatively rare on the ranged attacker's side, it's still worth it

 

[Desiderius]

Huh. It actually doesn't work on ranged.

It is still worth taking though because when the ranged attacker crits, allies who are flanking get an AOO. Even though those crits are relatively rare on the ranged attacker's side, it's still worth it

No, that’s just Seize the Moment. Outflank only triggers from flankers. First Feat I picked up is Agile Maneuvers to get her Pushing Infusions up where they’d be if she were getting CON to CM like she’s supposed to.

One interesting option is to grab Slick right away. Infinite use AoE Reflex Trip at 19 DC with Barrows CON belt should wreck Trobold.

I’d keep her at range until you get Whirlwind then you have a choice since she has Blade. Couldn’t fault you for grabbing Thug 4 at that point for AoE Brutal Beating on top of Greater Bull Rush and a lot of damage.

She even starts with 13 Stealth so could open combat with the big gather like you suggest. After that can Gather (Low) with Whirlwind or use Full Attax for iteratives on single target.

Her stats when you get her are 18 DEX, 18 CON, 14 WIS, 10 OTHERS which is a 24 point buy for Devil-Spawn Tiefling. Nothing unusual there.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean if your Spell Pen is too low do you lose the damage from the energy half of the composite blasts?

I found Composite Blasts were good for spikes as you say but impractical for regular use (especially if you want to use an infusion as well or want to get iteratives with Blade) before say lvl 12 and they really don’t go off until Composite Specialization at 16.

I know how to target AoEs, I use Eruption for Kanerah, I’m just saying that persistent effects are both way too good and too bad due to the AI on both sides not avoiding them and the lack of clear demarcation of where exactly they begin and end.

Ah, no. The game isn't that complicated. Composite blasts work the same as fully physical single-element blasts. It doesn't matter that half is energy damage, SR does nothing for them. It would be hard to keep track in tabletop otherwise.

I don't remember levels exactly, but I had composites on autocast after a while. They were always better than a metamagiced single-element blast. And before that they were excellent battle openers, in addition to spikes. Full-round gather doesn't matter when it's done outside of combat.

I won't disagree that persistents were too good, enemy AI really should be running out of them if at all possible. Did they fix that in the WotR alpha, by any chance?

The ultimate design for the Twins is to design both at the same time so that one can be a physical blast healer/restorer and the other am energy blast debuffer say and you can switch them out as needed on the fly.

You're saying that because you haven't seen how fast even the Spawn melts when you put double Wall/Deadly Earth/Cloud underneath it.

I mean Amiri, Val, Val’s Smilo, Jae, and Tristian wasted him in under a round so probably not that fast. I’m familiar with the soloing vids so yeah you can let the bad AI win the fight for you while your team sits around and picks their butts but doesn’t seem that interesting.

 

[Xamenos]

I mean Amiri, Val, Val’s Smilo, Jae, and Tristian wasted him in under a round so probably not that fast. I’m familiar with the soloing vids so yeah you can let the bad AI win the fight for you while your team sits around and picks their butts but doesn’t seem that interesting.

I bow to your superior optimisation skills. Though the Spawn fight is the one fight in the game where I wouldn't blame the bad AI, it can't move from its spot even if it wanted to.

 

[Yosharian]

I literally just tested it with only Outflank active. It works, a ranged crit gives your flanking melee allies AOOs

 

[Desiderius]

If you look at your attack record it doesn't list Outflank. Can't imagine you crit enough for that to be a thing or that when you crit with a Kinnie the thing isn't already dead.

 

[Yosharian]

Well on a 19-20 it's gonna happen, but yeah it's rare. The main reason I was looking into it is because my Tactical Leader gives all his teamwork feats to my pet army.

 

[Technomancer]

on a 19-20 it's gonna happen

Sigil of Destruction doubles the threat range further, too bad it's end game.

 

[Yosharian]

on a 19-20 it's gonna happen

Sigil of Destruction doubles the threat range further, too bad it's end game.

Huh interesting. Ok so it's definitely worth taking then.

 

[Technomancer]

Huh interesting. Ok so it's definitely worth taking then.

For 20 minutes of playtime and kicking Lantern's shit in, sure

 

[Desiderius]

I tested a couple builds and things. Tried something new this time and tested completely naked and unbuffed to make comparisons easier.

Here's the Slick Wild Talent you can pick up immediately at lvl 6. Completely unbuffed with no equipment and the DC is already 17 (Linzi's Grease is 11 + CHR bonus). Unlike Grease the DC for this thing goes up as you level. Can spend a Burn to make it persistent but would rarely need to. Solid action economy (especially for Trobold) while her other abilities mature. She also comes with Kinetic Healer so you can spam unlimited big heals in combat for free with Gather (Low).

This is your basic Water Blast at lvl 6 that you can afford to Empower and Extend Range for free with Gather (Low) at lvl 6. If you're using Blasts you want to plan around using Gather (Low) since Blast is a Standard Action and you don't get iteratives so don't need full. It's a physical attack so will need help to consistently land. Like a very strong XBow at this point since you start with no Substance Infusions.

Not sure what effect was cutting the damage in half here, but Overflow Size Enhancement helps your CMs twice via greater size and size bonus to stats. Bonus to DEX doesn't stack with Reduce Person's since they're both Size Bonuses though. BTW Kanerah's subclass doesn't get the size bonus but Kalikke's does. Wrath breaks out CM calculations so this is easier to follow. You get Bull Rush and Greater Bull Rush (the good one that triggers AoOs for everyone) via Water Feats so don't need Combat Expertise and Pushing Infusion builds them into all your Blasts. 20 CMB unbuffed naked isn't awful.

If you use Pushing Infusion with the Blade though it uses STR instead of DEX/CON that the Blasts use for AB/CMB, so you need Finesse for attacking and Agile Manuevers for your CMs unfortunately. The size bonus from burn does end up as big as a Grand Mutagen though without the penalty. This is base bonus so Bull Rush will be +4 from the two feats. If you go Shatter like Yosh recommends you should be good against foes vulnerable to it.

Lvl 11 is the first time you can use a Composite Blast with Gather Low and Zero Burn.

Alternatively at the same time you can Maximize an Electric or Water Blast for similar damage. Electric of course targets Touch AC. It looks like maybe Deadly Aim isn't turning on there (maybe because I'm attacking an ally?) There's no to hit roll.

This is a basic pure Kin utility build for Kalikke. Start out with Slick, Celerity, and Magnetically Infused Electric Blasts to give your team +4 to hit. Get to Shatter ASAP so you can reliably land Composites later. Unfortunately by taking Air first to get Celerity you really limit the Infusions available for Water Blasts if you're not using Push. Could easily fit Pushing in here but it costs two additional Wild Talents to make decent. Instead I picked up the excellent Res as soon as it came available (Kal's Healer Talent was the Prereq) and spent the other one going off on Lore (Nature).

If you're good with placing Walls you can switch to that midgame with Synaptic/Grappling to keep things stuck in there. Fragmentation adds AoE late and Fae hate Cold although good luck beating their Reflex Saves.

Oh, and Tidal Wave is Tsunami for 1 Burn.

Just in case you wanted to blow out every possible Lore (Nature) check in the game, Kal's uniquely qualified due to Skilled Kineticist. I suppose you could do the same with Athletics with the help of Kinetic Overflow.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's the Thug build. Go Kin until you get Supercharge/Whirlwind (just use Blasts until then) at 11. Next four levels are Thug for Finesse, Weapon Focus and Dazzling via Rogue Talent, Brutal Beating, Uncanny Dodge, and Debilitating. Both Debilitating and Brutal are very good with Whirlwind, though stuff usually just dies either to you or the AoOs from the Greater Bull Rush. Of course Evasion isn't bad with her DEX either and Deflect Arrows is really good when you're Stealthing in to open combat with a Whirlwind.

Decent weapon. Completely unbuffed and naked. Looks like midsized Overflow. Final version buffs all three physical stats. Don't really miss the Finesse Training that you can't get for Kinetic Blade.

No Flanking (and thus no Outflank) for Whirlwind. These guys would all be Sickened and flying for the exits from Greater Bull Rush if they weren't already dead. Maybe I should up the difficulty.

The rare Kinetic iterative. This requires both a Blade (which Kal comes with) and not Gathering that turn. Guess you could Gather (Full) then completely slay the next turn. Hmmm. Also notice that Outflank shows up here. If you want to Outflank with Kal Yosh just whip out her Blade.

Uh oh, what's that extra damage doing on that Sneak Attack? Overflow I think.

 

[Technomancer]

Time to drop the bombs.

Do you need arcane casters in your party? What is the advantage in giving a slot to them that could go to a cleric? Arcane casters can buff, sure but they can't fight at all. Clerics can buff, heal and kind of fight. So they're better right? I'm used to using wizards in other games where you can turn off friendly fire and they are pretty good there, but it seems like most of their spells target friendlies as well which seems to greatly limit their usefulness. Clerics who channel negative energy, however, can do AOE damage without hurting their own party thanks to selective channel so even though they don't seem to deal much damage with this they can actually use it more so its better. Clerics are the best caster class right?

Do you need a party when you are arcane caster? And why fight when you can nuke!

Check out wild cunts getting 360 no scoped and Val not understanding what fired means.

Worm ragequitting from life.

Guys, is possible to defeat Spawn of Rovagug with a mostly caster party?

Again with the crowd, one cast is all you need to make spawn too dumb to live.

I like electricity for an end game spells. Chain Lighting and Stormbolts compatible with all +damage per dice bonuses, so it can compete with Wail of the Banshee for the title of the ultimate nuke in wizard spellbook.

Not even close Behold! My jewel in the crown of nukers! Add to that 8 more rounds, 100 damage on each if someone DARED to fail the save and live!

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah late-game arcane casters are just gods

 

[Cryomancer]

Yeah late-game arcane casters are just gods

Karsus a lv 42 arcanist and was not even close to a lesser deity.

Check out wild cunts getting 360 no scoped and Val not understanding what fired means.

How high is your Wail of the Banshee dc?

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah beating those Saves on Unfair is not trivial.

 

[Technomancer]

How high is your Wail of the Banshee save?

45. 42 after rest and item reshuffle, too lazy to count the numbers again, but 2 is missing from food for sure.

 

[Shadenuat]

your damage from Wail is missing something. either necromancy items or you forgot spell spec in it. you should be close to 400.
unless u focus on other spells of course.

one cast is all you need to make spawn too dumb to live

wait how does that work. he really has such low int or did you drain him with something else? that should be just 1d4 int dmg. I remember experimenting with stat drains but found it too long to work due to enemies having high stats.
caustic erruption is a brilliant spell yes. great way to clear those pesky golems.

 

[hell bovine]

wait how does that work. he really has such low int or did you drain him with something else? that should be just 1d4 int dmg.

According to the wiki 4 intelligence.

 

[Shadenuat]

holy shit I wonder now if thats bug or designer did this on purpose.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Ranged wastes most of her Teamwork Feats and Solo Tactics but is less of a headache with the healing.

This is one of the reasons I do not see Jaethal as ranged. The second one - why do I need any archer other than Ekun? And the third - there are more damage dealers than damage sponges among the companions, so if I am going to play a wizard (which I do) I'd like Jaethal to be closer to the front. She's amazing as a Herald Caller, but I want to try Inquisitor. Any piece of advice?