Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

He's an Infinitron sock puppet trying to get me to post less.

You win, big brother.

 

[Jvegi]

Ok, I think I may have to replay chapter I to get Octavia, probably setting difficulty on storymode in dungeons I've already went through. Old Sycamore was pretty fun, but I want to get it over with as fast as I can. I've made a merc, a pretty cool one I think, but having a mute in a party seems off. It doesn't help that voice selection is so limited. Making a full custom party with only 2 voice actors must require a level of leniency only Desiderius can achieve.

Shitgame: Timewaster.

There is also this alchemist I could take. My character is a magus, so I have some arcane spells, and so does Linzy. Can I get away with using wands and scrolls on those two characters? Is Use Magical Device enough to handle that?

 

[Alrik]

I embraced both of them in a happy 3-some

>Location: Soviet Union
Checks out

 

[Yosharian]

Ok, I think I may have to replay chapter I to get Octavia

I mean you could also not do that, Octavia is fucking horrible

 

[Alrik]

I'm no longer using Freebooter at all since Bond is broken, as the Codex tried to tell me when I first got here.

Wait, I recall getting the AB from it when flanking. How is it broken?

 

[Desiderius]

You get the AB pretty much all the time, including at range when not flanking. In any case +4 (and growing!) untyped unlimited use stacking bonus for whole team is too good.

 

[Alrik]

You get the AB pretty much all the time, including at range when not flanking. In any case +4 (and growing!) untyped unlimited use stacking bonus for whole team is too good.

Ah, broken as in "too good". Odd that they would bungle that, should be trivial to tie a bonus to a binary flanking variable. Though not entirely surprising considering I've found ranged sneak attacks to be almost completely arbitrary so far, I'm pretty sure I've even had Ekun and Octavia attack on consecutive turns where one got the SA and not the other while attacking the same enemy.

 

[Desiderius]

It’s broken in both senses currently. It’s actually better balanced on a ranged character since you miss the Move Action from Bane so much more since it prevents full attacks.

Melee Booter uses Bane + Charge or Bane + Cleave/Vital Strike and AoOs.

 

[Mangoose]

It’s broken in both senses currently. It’s actually better balanced on a ranged character since you miss the Move Action from Bane so much more since it prevents full attacks.

Melee Booter uses Bane + Charge or Bane + Cleave/Vital Strike and AoOs.

Anything's better than Favored Enemy and a non-Hunter Animal Companion.

 

[Cael]

Of course, as I said I really only did this within the first few chapters, and only a few times.
And I only did this a bunch on my first few playthroughs, yes, because I really overestimated the importance of the time limit.

Call me shit if you will, but I think I beat Chapter 1 and 2 resting less than five times in each. And I didn't rush through them, I cleared out most of the optional areas.
Honestly I'm proud of myself for doing that without using the Jaethal trick more! Even though in retrospect there wasn't any reason to save time that much.

Frankly, this idea about Jaethal never came to my mind at all I'm playing without deaths and knock-outs anyway.

The only multiclass I could wholeheartedly recommend is for Linzi Bard 7 -> Freeboter 5 with all the corresponding archery feats (Point Blank, Precise Shot, Rapid, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, Hammer the Gap and later Shatter Defences). This simple build is even stronger in the game than on paper and she was the sole reason why I've switched from Hard to Unfair during Varnhold chapter.

You don't need to destroy your Bard to get those Freebooter levels. You're truly robbing Peter to pay Paul since you're just trading one group buff for another (while utterly destroying her casting ability) and you REALLY don't have the spare feats lying around to make her a viable archer either, the class doesn't come with any abilities that boost ranged attax, and there is no way to get DEX to damage at range. She belongs in melee with casting her cones or triggering Outflank crit chains with Moskoni's Rapier. Don't waste Mirror Image at range.

Trying to make Linzi viable at range broke InEffective.

I'm no longer using Freebooter at all since Bond is broken, as the Codex tried to tell me when I first got here.

But you have to have at least one archer and Ekun is too OP, so why not Linzi?

She gains more from Freebooter levels than staying pure Bard (that is of course if you don't have anyone else with Freebooter levels)

+2/+2 form Good Hope
+2/+2 from Inspire Competence
+2/+2 from Bond
+2/+2 from Mark Target
[+4 from Outflank]

is usually the differnce between hitting at 15-20 and hitting at 5-20 (this, again, essentially triples your damage)

And because of Gloves of Archery, Death from Afar and various Quivers she has enough ABs and Damage to kill most enemies in 1 round (just as an example, she just killed Mandragora Swarms in 1 round without a problem).

And Fascinate still works (those poor Hellknights ).

As I've said, it works better in the game than it looks on paper.

It's OP, but very satisfying.

If you need to stack that kind of bonuses just to be effective as a physical attacker, there is something wrong with the game because sure as hell the enemy won't be needing those kind of numbers. That is not how 3.x was built.

 

[Desiderius]

Other classes don’t need to but might as well anyway just for rub ins. And there are foes where you need all that and then some of you insist on attacking their strengths. Having several options gives you flexibility in party composition and exploration - it’s only silly when you find every item and stack every bonus.

 

[Desiderius]

Okay Fronder running the Arrowsong Minstrel back in the Depths for an example of a good ranged Bard. Think I’ve finally figured out how to play this thing - not easy.

M. AQVILA going with a true Dragon D this time building from the start to fight as Dragon, beginning with level of Sacred Fist to unlock Dragon Style.

 

[razvedchiki]

would respecing octavia to scroll savant fit her thematically?

 

[hell bovine]

The higher difficulties are a bit cheesy as well, you have enemy fallen deva summons in the starting dungeon.

That was the Tactics mod, old man.

Default SCS has just improved duergar in the starting dungeon. I'm not sure if improved Illyich is incorporated into SCS, but that was a joke encounter even in Tactics.

I still have PTSD from Improved Illyich + SCS2

The final Irenicus battle was no joke either, I remember I kept dying in the last few rounds because those summoned sword spells were only vulnerable to my magic missile spells and I kept running out

Painful experience but memorable to say the least

Do you mean the old SCS2/Tactics hell battle? That was memorable, for sure. :D

 

[Yosharian]

Do you mean the old SCS2/Tactics hell battle? That was memorable, for sure. :D

Yes this was a long time ago =). For some reason at the time I thought it would be a good idea to use both SCS2 and Tactics together.

Funny thing is the thing I remember most about the playthrough was how bloody annoying rogue NPCs were, because SCS2 added a bunch of invis potions to them (as in every single one in the game) and so every encounter with one would consist of them chugging a potion then backstabbing my wizard for 100 damage.

You couldn't counter this because any effect that would reveal the target would only do so after the rogue had already used his invisibility to backstab. Rinse and repeat until he's used them all, no counter.

 

[Desiderius]

would respecing octavia to scroll savant fit her thematically?

Well that’s what Owlcat evidently thinks because that’s what they changed her to in Wrath. AT is a nice low maintenance class.

 

[Desiderius]

Making DD good (better than the alternatives):

Sorc base: no, just nuke shit

Slow spell base: no just get your class benefits, wastes DD fast spell progression

Martial base with Sorc splash: no just go EK

Scaled Fist Monk base with Dragon Style to double STR-bonus: DD tacks on fast spell progression and Dragon Form

Let’s do this.

 

[Jvegi]

There is also this alchemist I could take. My character is a magus, so I have some arcane spells, and so does Linzy. Can I get away with using wands and scrolls on those two characters? Is Use Magical Device enough to handle that?

Hey Desiderius , you talk so much, why won't you give advice on that one?

Can a bard or Magus with high UMG and maybe some feats cast essential arcane spells from scrolls and wands reliably enough to be viable?

 

[Desiderius]

There is also this alchemist I could take. My character is a magus, so I have some arcane spells, and so does Linzy. Can I get away with using wands and scrolls on those two characters? Is Use Magical Device enough to handle that?

Hey Desiderius , you talk so much, why won't you give advice on that one?

Can a bard or Magus with high UMG and maybe some feats cast essential arcane spells from scrolls and wands reliably enough to be viable?

Because you’re a spoiled idiot.

 

[Jvegi]

Because you’re a spoiled idiot

I think it's because you don't know the answer. Can you show all the people watching that you do?

 

[Mangoose]

Respecced Reg and Octavia to Skald and Eldritch Archer, to do their side missions.

I was surprised by the Skald. I didn't know that he could share Rage Powers with the whole team. And you can go Urban to not annoy your casters... Actually I think Holic added the ability to "dismiss rage" in COTW. Might be the reason he added it.

Eldritch Archer is fun but you don't use Spellstrike that much. Your Gish-ness comes from Spell Combat.

Sadly, the Arcane Archer has a really interesting mechanic but there aren't enough spells to support it... Basically, Imbue Arrow is unique in that you can shoot any AOE spell - including PBAOEs. Yeah. Problem is that there are not many PBAOE spells that have any significant impact, so it's de facto a one-trick-pony with shooting Antimagic Field at everyone. Which we don't even have in this game or any mods. It's ironic because that mechanic is really interesting but in practice you don't really want to play one.

 

[Mangoose]

Holy crap how did I not realize the power of True Strike Spell Combat until now.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Holy crap how did I not realize the power of True Strike Spell Combat until now.

Yes, it is very useful for a Magus on low levels. Later Magus Arcana boosts the attack well enough, so it is better to use damaging spells IMHO.

 

[Mangoose]

Holy crap how did I not realize the power of True Strike Spell Combat until now.

Yes, it is very useful for a Magus on low levels. Later Magus Arcana boosts the attack well enough, so it is better to use damaging spells IMHO.

Automatic CMB win I think

 

[LannTheStupid]

Heck, you can just do a 2 turn spell combo with Blade Lash.

I think Blade Lash is not in the unmodded Kingmaker, and I do not use mods that change the mechanics.