Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Nano]

You can spend the 6k to res her and then kick her out... not a great option in Act 1.

Nah, it doesn't bother me that much. Not that I could rez her anyway, she's lost in a random encounter map.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Not that I could rez her anyway, she's lost in a random encounter map.

Pretty sure that's not enforced.

 

[Cael]

When you get more than 5 NPCs, you can pick 5 others and she stays out? This is a guess on my part. She usually doesn't die on me because I make her into a Scion 4/Dragon Disciple 4 as soon as possible before going into 2-handed Fighter. I find that is the best way of fighting Armag as she will have +4 Str, +3 AC and spells to enlarge, haste, mirror image, blur, displacement, etc. Just have to give her a headband of +4 Cha.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

You can always move dead characters in and out of your active party. The annoyance here is that her dead portrait will remain on your "bench", and will be shown on the bottom row when you are at Oleg's.

 

[Desiderius]

When you get more than 5 NPCs, you can pick 5 others and she stays out? This is a guess on my part. She usually doesn't die on me because I make her into a Scion 4/Dragon Disciple 4 as soon as possible before going into 2-handed Fighter. I find that is the best way of fighting Armag as she will have +4 Str, +3 AC and spells to enlarge, haste, mirror image, blur, displacement, etc. Just have to give her a headband of +4 Cha.

Inquisitor scales like no other class. Judgements (with additional activations and multiple up at a time), Divine Favor/Power, and Bane Weapon all go through the roof and all go by *class* level. Plus you get class level bonuses Perception and Intimidate. Free Teamwork Feats with Solo Tactics. You even get good spells at higher levels.

Seriously what are you even doing? Are you trying to make your characters actively bad? This isn’t 3.5, hybrids were designed as multi-classed already.

It’s like trying to play Wizardry 8 multiclassing like Wiz 7. No wonder you think the stats are bloated, you’re splashing your characters into oblivion.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I'm about to start the final stretch of Varnhold and am at the point where you can pick mercs for the final time. Should I switch out my sword saint for a trad tank? Or should I switch out my Monk/Bard for a Sylvan Sorcerer? Or should I keep my MC Ranger, Cleric, Sword Saint, and Bard/Monk party? I don't know what to expect in the final portions of the DLC. I'm on unfair, by the way.

 

[Nano]

This game... is so much easier with mercs. Only have two of them in my party, a Ranger and Eldritch Scoundrel, and areas I previously found difficult like the Boggart dungeon (at level 4 then and now) are now a little bit of a breeze.

 

[Cael]

This game... is so much easier with mercs. Only have two of them in my party, a Ranger and Eldritch Scoundrel, and areas I previously found difficult like the Boggart dungeon (at level 4 then and now) are now a little bit of a breeze.

The most powerful class feature is the animal companion. They make everything a breeze, even end game mobs like Wild Hunts.

 

[Desiderius]

This game... is so much easier with mercs. Only have two of them in my party, a Ranger and Eldritch Scoundrel, and areas I previously found difficult like the Boggart dungeon (at level 4 then and now) are now a little bit of a breeze.

Mercs have a lower point buy and a penalty as advisors. Boggart dungeon is crappy tack on from third DLC and not appropriate for lvl 4. Just skip it. Or leave until lvl 5-7.

Game is designed for companions. If mercs are better at any point you're just not playing the companions very well. They have all the tools you need.

Unlike Wrath many of them even set up well for a multiclass if you want to take them a different direction. Amiri makes great Freebooter and Val can do Feyspeaker and pick up a Smilo pet if early game strength is something you require.

 

[Desiderius]

This game... is so much easier with mercs. Only have two of them in my party, a Ranger and Eldritch Scoundrel, and areas I previously found difficult like the Boggart dungeon (at level 4 then and now) are now a little bit of a breeze.

The most powerful class feature is the animal companion. They make everything a breeze, even end game mobs like Wild Hunts.

Pets in P:K suck a lot of resources to buff and can gum up melee. One is very good. More than that you're nerfing yourself on most party comps.

 

[Desiderius]

Ok, Average Manatee I can't find your screenshot post-Trobold. Here's mine on my way to head north to drop off books with Bokken and do Valerie's quest, picking up first two levels of Depths and Haste wand on the way back to finish Tower and do second Lone House quest to hit lvl eight on way to Trobold.



After that there will be quite the (short-term) time crunch but I'll be able to unlock North Narl much earlier than normal thx to focusing on Community and likely Diplomat also much earlier (needs 60 Community). That gets Relations on way to unlock Espionage much earlier as well.

After unlocking North Narl, then South Narl, then Loyalty ranks for Kame. For the second North Narl Artisans will already be established (with quest items from Sweet Teeth to advance their quests) to deliver needed Archery items after time advances, then for third same with South Narl artisans. So a couple months of time crunch with items flowing (which was Average Manatee's initial complaint) then things open up.

Never had the BP to do that before and well ahead of schedule.

By the time Loan hits break-even point you would have had to spend 2,000 BP (2,500 inflated) on just buildings, and you don't hit that point until Varnhold when you're swimming in gold. Loan finances Region claims and projects with no mark-up.

 

[Desiderius]

At Kingdom start (with high Stealth - can travel mostly in own territory surprisingly, but not all the way and randoms are dangerous)

(1) head SE to pick up +2 Mil resource and rob Glinnorn at Bridge (invis potion). Fight wolves and bears and pack of bandits for items, EXP, cash.

(2) Do Lonely Barrow starting encounter. Stolen Lands Encounters adds a very interesting (and challenging) fight here with good loot. On vanilla just get the good EXP skill check and pick up Bokken's third book.

(3) Pick up 2(!) additional +2 resources that are somehow in your territory on way to Sorrowflow. Can stop in Arbor Rock to pick up Diamond and Warhammer +1 from Elementals.

(4) If you can beat an lvl 17 Dweomerlion and three lvl 10 Dweomercats then you can get Mighty Claws+2 and Bracers+5 from Hilltop portal thingie. Never knew that was open yet.

(5) Sorrowflow is easy. You can bring whole team in to clear out mine after finishing Kinnie quest (simply re-enter area).

(6) Mine project gives BP per wk and +3 Community/Econ (Regent works on it, so good to get unlocked ASAP)

(7) Can use Kanerah for something (can't remember) but don't get loan until after Outskirts buildings

(8) Return to capital for Outskirts unlock

(9) Head north to finish Ratnook, recruit Bokken, do Tranquil River Bend (build Outskirts buildings other than Bokken's Shop before leaving- this is where Average Manatee's firesale is needed)

(10) By time you get back shld be time for Hilltop then can do Jub Ekun loop. Bandit Camp etc.. Make sure to get Dalton encounter to unlock Bart's lair at Lone House.

(11) Do a couple rank-ups to unlock second Lone House quest, Val's Quest, Bokken's Quest

(12) Loop Oleg's, Depths (Haste Wand, Dwarven Helm in lvl 2 gives +2 AC vs Trolls), Lone House again (big EXP, Whip Quest) on way to Swamp Witch then Trobold.

EDIT: (11a) Annex North Narl and build buildings with loan. this generates Jae quest you can do on way to Oleg, puts Narl in your territory. Can grab resources there and recruit artisans on way back from Oleg/Depths.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, that's that done then.

Spoiler

HATEOT was a bit frustrating at times, not the best part of the game for sure. The Lantern King was a fun fight I guess.

Overall the game is a real mixed bag. I enjoyed a lot of it, but found a significant portion to be boring and/or tedious. Kingdom Management as a whole is horrible - I'll definitely be putting it on Auto next time I play the game.

Next RPG I play will be Solasta, I think.

 

[Desiderius]

Think I’ll try Bardless next run. CotW borks Linzi a little by burning a Feat on Precise when the class has exactly zero ranged touch spells (kind of the point of Sonic is that it doesn’t need them), zero ranged abilities, and he gives her super Aid Another that only works in melee. Halfling gets Cautious Fighter etc. just a bad fit.

Tristian is set up for a Prestige that can give AoE Competence and you can get Morale from Dorf Helm relic and Depths Heroism Wand (50 charges).

Think I’ll try balls out with Inspire Ferocity Cleavage/Combat Reflexes on Amiri to take advantage of dudes trying to get to my squishies.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, that's that done then.

Spoiler

HATEOT was a bit frustrating at times, not the best part of the game for sure. The Lantern King was a fun fight I guess.

Overall the game is a real mixed bag. I enjoyed a lot of it, but found a significant portion to be boring and/or tedious. Kingdom Management as a whole is horrible - I'll definitely be putting it on Auto next time I play the game.

Next RPG I play will be Solasta, I think.

Lol auto turns off Artisans doesn’t it? Not really a viable game without artisans.

If you don’t like the KM I don’t even know why you’re playing it. Just do Depths. Don’t get the KM hate. It’s great once you understand it. A lot of play to it.

 

[Nano]

The most powerful class feature is the animal companion. They make everything a breeze, even end game mobs like Wild Hunts.

Their trips set up a lot of AoO attacks. My party is melee heavy, so sometimes there's just a gangbang of attacks of opportunities when an enemy gets up.

Boggart dungeon is crappy tack on from third DLC and not appropriate for lvl 4. Just skip it. Or leave until lvl 5-7.

I'm saying the dungeon was easier now... so you're telling me to do it at a higher level? What's the point?

Besides, I wanna clear out all the available areas before reaching act 2. The game is huge enough as it is.

Mercs have a lower point buy

Mercs have the same PB as Amiri and Linzi, you know.

 

[Desiderius]

Of course melee gets a lot of gang-bangs, but not if you’ve got everything gummed up with multiple pets and blowing all your Feats and spells trying to support them.

Okbo’s great. But there’s (more than) enough melee companions to fill the rest of the available slots. I did Smilo on Val to get Unfair achievement but ended up cutting Ekun for Jae to free up traffic.

If you’re playing a Ranger Merc to try to get that effect early (?) pet’s going to suck at lvl 4 anyway. Just wait until lvl 5 if you’re in a hurry to do Bog cave. It’s going to be a slog even then.

Mercs don’t get Companion specific quests, so even if they start off even with a couple companions they end up behind. Amiri and Linzi don’t need many pts for what they’re doing.

And you’re saying it’s easier with those classes. Maybe for you, but there’s nothing those classes bring to the table *at lvl 4* that you can’t get from companions, and better.

In any event judging the game or borking a playthrough to clear an optional area with crap loot underleveled more easily doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Nano]

Of course melee gets a lot of gang-bangs, but not if you’ve got everything gummed up with multiple pets and blowing all your Feats and spells trying to support them.

Of course I'm using only one pet. Feels crowded enough as it is with seven party members.

And you’re saying it’s easier with those classes. Maybe for you, but there’s nothing those classes bring to the table *at lvl 4* that you can’t get from companions, and better.

I disagree. The rogue's Sneak Attacks from his dual daggers, the Ranger's Rapid Shot-augmented composite longbow, and the animal companion have all been very useful and are not obtainable from companions at level 4.

In any event judging the game or borking a playthrough to clear an optional area with crap loot underleveled more easily doesn’t make much sense.

I'm not borking anything bro, don't worry about me.

 

[Average Manatee]

There's little reason at all to not finish everything possible in chapter 1 during chapter 1. AFAIK every other timer in the game is based on number of days since finishing chapter 1, so it's literally free time. Plus Boggards are grease-bait. Even if you have to rest for every fight, it's time saved in the end. Only reason I can see not to do it is if you are playing Ironman since all those enemies can absolutely one-shot you on a bad roll.

2 pets + 1 melee character works pretty well even in indoor areas as long as you are varying your character's reach and size somehow (either reduce size on a dexer or raise size on someone with a reach weapon). Pets scale way, way better than they should. Shame you can't ride them.

I disagree. The rogue's Sneak Attacks from his dual daggers, the Ranger's Rapid Shot-augmented composite longbow, and the animal companion have all been very useful and are not obtainable from companions at level 4.

Yeah the early game companion options lack a bit in the DPS-optimization role.

 

[Nano]

Plus Boggards are grease-bait.

No Greasing things up for me. Only been using Enchantment and Illusion spells to keep enemies from hitting my party. Plus the occasional Entangle from the Ranger.

 

[Cael]

The most powerful class feature is the animal companion. They make everything a breeze, even end game mobs like Wild Hunts.

Their trips set up a lot of AoO attacks. My party is melee heavy, so sometimes there's just a gangbang of attacks of opportunities when an enemy gets up.

Mercs have a lower point buy

Mercs have the same PB as Amiri and Linzi, you know.

The barbarian pet archetype gives free attack on a trip, and you get the usual when they get up. Double the fun for everyone!

Most of the companions have a 20 PB. The notable exceptions are the zombie ninja pirate woman-thing and the token black man (who has a 32 or 34 PB).

 

[Cael]

Plus Boggards are grease-bait.

No Greasing things up for me. Only been using Enchantment and Illusion spells to keep enemies from hitting my party. Plus the occasional Entangle from the Ranger.

Transmutation's Web is pretty good as well. Plus Spell Focus Transmutation will not go amiss whereas most end-game mobs are immune Enchantment.

 

[Grunker]

Well, that's that done then.

Spoiler

HATEOT was a bit frustrating at times, not the best part of the game for sure. The Lantern King was a fun fight I guess.

Overall the game is a real mixed bag. I enjoyed a lot of it, but found a significant portion to be boring and/or tedious. Kingdom Management as a whole is horrible - I'll definitely be putting it on Auto next time I play the game.

Next RPG I play will be Solasta, I think.

Don't play Kingdom Management on Auto, you lose out on too much in game, sadly. With the right strategy, Kingdom Management is entirely trivial even on the hardest setting (which I played it on).

 

[Desiderius]

The barbarian pet archetype gives free attack on a trip, and you get the usual when they get up. Double the fun for everyone!

It's fine, but against stuff that's easily trippable Okbo (Mad Dog doesn't get that ability until after Okbo shows up) is already going to town and Amiri with Bite Cloak if you want it. Trip is already heavily supported and some of toughest challenges aren't amenable to Tripping (Ghosts and Swarms don't care, Trolls and Giants and Spiders and Wargs have bonuses against it). Anybody (including pets in CotW) can get the ability you describe since it comes with Greater Trip.

I've done my share of Tripping. I've found ultimately its good when you don't need it, sometimes not there when you do, and like Grease I've gotten away from it as a general strategy (you've always got access to it for casters and the like with Okbo) since it messes with my ranged finishers, so don't do much Mad Dog. At least with Trip (unlike Grease) it doesn't mess up flanking when you're playing Proper Flanking mod (highly recommended).

Mad Dog at least does have *some* pet specific support unlike most classes people tack pets onto, but it gives up a good bit of what makes a Barb good in the first place, and you already have companion Barb. It was popular at release but downsides became clear. MC with two meleers not a great fit with mostly melee companions (Clerics/Bards want to be in or near melee for Auras/Songs).

Most of the companions have a 20 PB. The notable exceptions are the zombie ninja pirate woman-thing and the token black man (who has a 32 or 34 PB).

I'm not playing Vanilla anymore but Val is what 14/14/19 with 16 CHR or something ridiculous, then gets the Bastard Sword with +6 CHR and another from her quest?

The companions all end up good and much less annoying due to your Kingly influence if you play the game right. It's kind of the plot.

 

[Desiderius]

Of course melee gets a lot of gang-bangs, but not if you’ve got everything gummed up with multiple pets and blowing all your Feats and spells trying to support them.

Of course I'm using only one pet. Feels crowded enough as it is with seven party members.

And you’re saying it’s easier with those classes. Maybe for you, but there’s nothing those classes bring to the table *at lvl 4* that you can’t get from companions, and better.

I disagree. The rogue's Sneak Attacks from his dual daggers, the Ranger's Rapid Shot-augmented composite longbow, and the animal companion have all been very useful and are not obtainable from companions at level 4.

In any event judging the game or borking a playthrough to clear an optional area with crap loot underleveled more easily doesn’t make much sense.

I'm not borking anything bro, don't worry about me.

At lvl four your Merc Ranger's pet is lvl 2 since ranger gets late pet. Just wait until lvl five when you can pick up Boon. I'm used to just getting Ekun or making Amiri Freebooter - does it let you take Boon early on Ranger? Whatever, without Flanking and a magic Bow that -2 Malus on Rapid will be relevant at lvl 4 vs those Boggarts on a reasonable difficulty. Area's already enough of a slog without reloading for good RNG on save or dies.

Amiri has Rage + Rage Powers + flanking for much higher AB. Can spend that on Power Attack, Cleave (if you take her Booter), and using her Oversized weapon (or just best two-hander, they show up earlier than Bows) with Enlarge to do a lot more damage. And she's got the Freebooter's Bane (and Bond at Ranger 4 if you wait until lvl 5) for even more AB if you go that way. Or you can take her Sacred Huntmaster for full Pet and Solo Tactics, tho the 12 WIS will bite eventually.

Val TSS has Dazzling (loses her AB Malus at 5), Val Feyspeaker has better pet and Image, Val Bard tanks with her own save or dies (or frees up Linzi for Fascinate if you wait for lvl 6, which you can reach before Fort) and Image at lvl 5, Val KinKnight whales with Touch attax.

Love me some ES but how many Sneaks are you landing at a reasonable difficulty with the TWF malus, 3/4 BAB, and no abilities that help your AB?