Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Yeah the early game companion options lack a bit in the DPS-optimization role.

Amiri slays.



Unfair Bog Cave (ch1):

 

[Average Manatee]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

 

[Haplo]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

Ah, its not that bad... just a poor starter weapon, when you need every point of accuracy you can get.

 

[Average Manatee]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

Ah, its not that bad... just a poor starter weapon, when you need every point of accuracy you can get.

Yeah it's eventually fine. But it feels sort of like the devs set up new players to fail with it.

 

[Cael]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

Ah, its not that bad... just a poor starter weapon, when you need every point of accuracy you can get.

Yeah it's eventually fine. But it feels sort of like the devs set up new players to fail with it.

The same can be said for much of the game. If a DM does what Owlcat does at the table, he'd be rightly hit with the DMG, PHB and MM before being tossed out the window.

 

[Desiderius]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

If you're too lazy to read and use all her other abilities that give you infinite AB (see helpful pic for first fight out of tutorial with her decidedly NOT missing on… Unfair) then yeah, *you’re* going to miss because:

(a) you suck

(b) you seem to think pointing this out repeatedly somehow owns other people instead of yourself.

I legitimately don't get the appeal of this.

Her starting weapon is both oversized and Magic. So if it hits it hits very hard (and even harder with Lead Blades and Enlarge) and it’s a Bastard Sword so has 19-20 crit range and big dice to start with.

Haplo taught us how that works.

Whether you stay Barb or go Freebooter you combine that with a ton of AB bonuses. I like Reckless Stance/Inspire Ferocity to share with team. Reckless stacks with Inspire Courage unlike Lethal. Animal Totem makes up the AC malus.

 

[Desiderius]

Does Enlarging her cancel the Oversized malus? Obv Enlarge has its own malus but that’s canceled by extra STR. She uses Troll Reaper in CH2, good Reach weapons for Cleaving, and anti-Undead vs Undead (the benefit of *not* specializing) so somewhat moot.

 

[Max Damage]

Enlarging doesn't cancel Oversized accuracy penalty.

 

[Desiderius]

Ah yes, the Ginormous sword. What a great weap-*miss* *miss* *miss*

Ah, its not that bad... just a poor starter weapon, when you need every point of accuracy you can get.

Yeah it's eventually fine. But it feels sort of like the devs set up new players to fail with it.

The same can be said for much of the game. If a DM does what Owlcat does at the table, he'd be rightly hit with the DMG, PHB and MM before being tossed out the window.

Ffs she’s full BAB, comes with an ability that gives her another +2, and can pick up another that gives + 1 kicking up to +2 at lvl 4. they made flanking comically easy and Charge a Standard Action. They gave the Bard double action econ to buff you some more while debuffing enemies at same time.

All of phaggots are living in some fantasy land you got from some clickbait journo who couldn’t even find the on button. It’s all wrong. Play the fucking game.

Unbelievable to me that Owlcat makes a game that mildly weans people away from the faceroll phone games they were corrupted by in their youth (so does Larian BTW -sells great!) and your answer is “nerf it more, Owlcat, the poor dears cant handle it.”

BTW, there’s a quote from Soyer to this effect, and that led directly to the faceroll of Deadfire on release and that to disappointing initial sales. They tightened that up and it’s recovered somewhat but they blew their shot at an era-defining game.

No way you miserable fucks ever DMed shit. Nobody would show. Talking completely out of your asses.

 

[Max Damage]

If people are missing with her sword, that's on them for playing above their difficulty and not adjusting, yes. If you're missing every hit just because of 2 AB missing from your bonus to D20, you must be trying to kill Crag Linnorm before you're ready or some shit.

 

[thesheeep]

I kill Crag Linnorm at lvl 0 before character creation, you plebs.

 

[Desiderius]

Why kill him when you can just take his stuff?

You guys act like I’m flexing my obscure skillz or something.

All I did was turn on Rage, turn on my Bard song, and Charge. Seriously are people not even using basic abilities any more? Don’t get it.

 

[Average Manatee]

I mean if you are resting literally every fight or two then sure, you can spam rage and other limited use abilities (bard song thankfully is spammable for multiple battles thanks to lingering song). I realize that I did just recommend literally resting for every battle if need be to clear out all chapter 1 areas though. Charge is spotty as fuck in realtime and only works on your opening attack.

Bear in mind that the boggard champion has like 30 AC on unfair so even with every AB buff stacked together your chance to hit is a "maybe".

 

[Desiderius]

I mean if you are resting literally every fight or two then sure, you can spam rage and other limited use abilities (bard song thankfully is spammable for multiple battles thanks to lingering song). I realize that I did just recommend literally resting for every battle if need be to clear out all chapter 1 areas though. Charge is spotty as fuck in realtime and only works on your opening attack.

Bear in mind that the boggard champion has like 30 AC on unfair so even with every AB buff stacked together your chance to hit is a "maybe".

The fight in the pic you’ve got a forced rest right after so no reason not to, but pure Barb Amiri can keep Rage up for every fight that matters and several additional ones that people complain about being tedious (too hard).

Are people literally Grease kiting every fight? Is that why they’re taking so long? Is it (bad) MMOitis where the “DPS” does all the damage while the “buffers” and “healers” stand around and pick their noses and the “tank” tries to hold aggro with no taunts? You dont have to play that way.

I used to worry about running out of Rage but it does a better job of cutting off immediately as soon as combat ends (songs tend to stick around if you forget to turn them off). She starts with eight rounds then by lvl 5 its 18. That should be plenty.

I took her Freebooter for Unfair so at lvl 5 that’s +2 for everyone unlimited (Bond pre-combat) and unlimited +2 for team on designated target at lvl 6 (Booter 5 Bane, Move Action so good with Standard Charge/Cleave). Still have 8 rounds of +2 Rage for hard fights. You can start taking Barb levels after Booter 10.

Opened Bane + Charge on pretty much every fight of that playthrough with little issue. Charge + Bane on easier fights. Maybe because I use Feather Step, Mass when I get it? They put stuff on the ground in Wrath to make Charging harder but never had an issue in P:K RTwP. Also tended to Charge casters and stuff where path was more open? Then Move + Cleave from there.

Yeah Bog Champ is only thing close to that in ch1 so kind of dumb to design your team around and he can be debuffed in any case. I think I just Caco Called him until adds were done then let Smilo wear him down 18 on 28 or something. Dazzling + Glitterdust pretty good there IIRC.

Amiri on +1 Longspear for Cleave radius and another +2 to hit those bastards. Both Harrim and Tristian for double Archon’s.

Whole area is garbage though. Zero Perception checks or artifact/relic pieces. Drops are bad too. Guess you can make a little coin selling MW weapons.

Ch 1 does have +2 Dueling Sword (-5 vs own team) if you do it under 30 days which goes well with fixed Necklace of Double-Crosses which CotW has.

 

[Desiderius]

You get +4 Stat items earlier in PK than Wrath which takes some of the burden off of min/lvl buffs. Good Hope likewise can just be extended instead of six Heroism casts which frees up a lot of slots. Relic Dorf Helm casts it if you want to give Linzi a break. Barkskin is 10 min/lvl so can keep on melee with Jub while ranged use necklaces.

That just leaves Shield of Faith and a Shield spell or Image here and there.

 

[Max Damage]

Are people literally Grease kiting every fight? Is that why they’re taking so long? Is it (bad) MMOitis where the “DPS” does all the damage while the “buffers” and “healers” stand around and pick their noses and the “tank” tries to hold aggro with no taunts?

It must be nice being senile and making up retarded shit without a shadow of embarrasement.

 

[Desiderius]

Does anyone know if Haze of Dreams is a single target Slow (does it stagger the creature?) or does it just decrease movement? It gives the creature the Slow icon but doesnt seem to Stagger (which would prevent full attax).

 

[Nano]

Does anyone know if Haze of Dreams is a single target Slow (does it stagger the creature?) or does it just decrease movement? It gives the creature the Slow icon but doesnt seem to Stagger (which would prevent full attax).

Decreases movement only. So it's not a spell I find myself using often, even though I still took it on my Bard because I care about RP more than powergaming.

 

[Haplo]

Enlarging doesn't cancel Oversized accuracy penalty.

Correct. Because it makes the Large sword Huge sized - still one size above the character.

 

[Haplo]

they made flanking comically easy and Charge a Standard Action.

The latter doesn't sound correct.

 

[Cael]

I mean if you are resting literally every fight or two then sure, you can spam rage and other limited use abilities (bard song thankfully is spammable for multiple battles thanks to lingering song). I realize that I did just recommend literally resting for every battle if need be to clear out all chapter 1 areas though. Charge is spotty as fuck in realtime and only works on your opening attack.

Bear in mind that the boggard champion has like 30 AC on unfair so even with every AB buff stacked together your chance to hit is a "maybe".

Web and Grease is a double whammy that helps a lot. Just stay back with ranged weapons.

 

[Desiderius]

they made flanking comically easy and Charge a Standard Action.

The latter doesn't sound correct.

It was for a long time to the complaints of PnPers and I think Holic? It shows as Full Attack now in CotW TB. So may have been changed in base game or Holic changed it.

TB is weird. If you try to open with Zerg Charge it gets confused and sometimes you’ll lose turn entirely, but you can use it in surprise round if you open with something else on another character.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean if you are resting literally every fight or two then sure, you can spam rage and other limited use abilities (bard song thankfully is spammable for multiple battles thanks to lingering song). I realize that I did just recommend literally resting for every battle if need be to clear out all chapter 1 areas though. Charge is spotty as fuck in realtime and only works on your opening attack.

Bear in mind that the boggard champion has like 30 AC on unfair so even with every AB buff stacked together your chance to hit is a "maybe".

Web and Grease is a double whammy that helps a lot. Just stay back with ranged weapons.

Grease is -4 malus to ranged and with Proper Flanking your own guys will have to stand in the effected area, which can eventually be managed but not until later. Those spells are a more finite resource than Rage in any case.

Ranged will be lower AB than melee already since it doesn’t get flanking so even tougher to hit that high AC. All that gets better later but tough at lvl four.

 

[Desiderius]

Does anyone know if Haze of Dreams is a single target Slow (does it stagger the creature?) or does it just decrease movement? It gives the creature the Slow icon but doesnt seem to Stagger (which would prevent full attax).

Decreases movement only. So it's not a spell I find myself using often, even though I still took it on my Bard because I care about RP more than powergaming.

That’s what drives me nuts about the conventional P:K wisdom. It’s even what got me on Codex in the first place.

I tend toward the RP on these games naturally - always playing Bards even if they suck (BG cough, cough), always using the songs, always covering my skills (even if most are pointless), using the unique spells and abilities of each class, versatility over hyperfocus on one spell/ability, team synergies, etc, and here’s a game where all that is great.

I’ve been using Vanish and Hypnotism on Bard for first time and its really effective. Always discovering new things each playthrough.

Then the people used to rolling games with one-weird-trick or clickbait memes (or moreso here 3.5 stuff that doesn't always translate to PF) have trouble with something where that doesn’t work (by design I think) and instead of updating their approach/having fun with the RP complain about difficulty and get things nerfed.

Which is how it affects both my experience and the general enjoyment of the game and thus its popularity/appeal - which is how more games like that get made, or not if they’re nerfed into oblivion and people find them pointless/boring.

 

[Nano]

Y'know, I think this is one of the more retarded things I've heard. He doesn't want their light to fade, so he decides to not tell anyone about them until the day he finally croaks. What a selfish prick.

Edit: Hey, 1000 pages.