Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

The item design is very well thought out.

A Keen +1 Sickle that serves as a Short Sword usable by non-martial two-weapon classes like Vivi.

+1 Longspear is only magic Reach weapon available before Fort where there’s +1 Glaive behind Athletics/Trickery check. Useful with Amiri to get Cleave radius out there or MC Bard or Cleric to keep you out of heaviest combat but in good position for songs/auras/Channeling. Enemy Bards are often equipped with one.

+1 Composite Shortbow also good fit for Bard. Spell-casting Bard can start 14/14 on STR/DEX with 19 CHR and use Longspear/Comp Shortbow depending on foes without spending any combat Feats. Saving spells for hardest fights and key buffs.

 

[Desiderius]

Hi, my name is Desiderius, I'm 14. I like loot and exp.

Why are you here? Yes we like loot and EXP. The place is called RPGCodex.

The trash in trash fight means insignificant loot. You claimed there’s no EXP - I explained where it is.

Do you often expose yourself in public?

 

[Arthandas]

Why are you here?

Isn't it obvious? You're very entertaining.

 

[Ninjerk]

I hate games that make me play them to experience them.

 

[Desiderius]

Average Manatee you were right about Rage rounds I think, at least trying to get the Dueling Sword for doing Ch. 1 in 30 days.

Trying to rely on Inspire Ferocity since CotW Jae is immune to Inspire Courage (playing MC Court Bard which has debuff songs) and yeah it does run out faster than I'd like at least early on.

Are there any items that give extra Rage rounds? Can't remember. I think it does get better by midgame but it's got me curious.

 

[Nano]

Trying to rely on Inspire Ferocity since CotW Jae is immune to Inspire Courage (playing MC Court Bard which has debuff songs) and yeah it does run out faster than I'd like at least early on.

Go Dirge Bard and this isn't a problem. Dirge Bard FTW.

Unfortunately this also makes her vulnerable to my Babble spells. Oh well.

 

[Desiderius]

Dirge is no bueno in Cotw. Versatile Performance is what I’m here for.

Court Bard lvl bonus to both Persuasion (not just Intimidate) and Knowledge World. A lot of ways in CotW to get things Shaken without burning your Song on it.

Court Bard has a flat-footed song to cut out the middleman (and Shatter Defenses is the PnP version where you have to hit first to apply it each round).

Main thing it has is an AB debuffing song that goes well with Inspire Ferocity and CMs. Figure Vindictive Bastard Val has to have some Dirty Tricks up her sleeve.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Arthandas have you tried Disco Elysium?

 

[Arthandas]

Arthandas have you tried Disco Elysium?

I have. I liked the story and dialogs, too bad it's not an rpg.

 

[Cael]

Yes, the exact shit you’re too lazy to look for. Why do you bother even playing? Really don’t get it.

I'm not, like I said, I reached the stag lord and I'm bored to death. I asked if there's anything more to this game apart from boring trash combat and now that I know there isn't I'm done with it.

You said the EXP wasn’t there. I explained where it is.

No, I said the non-combat exp is pitiful and it is. You did nothing to disprove it. If you collect ALL non-combat exp in chapter 1, how many levels will you get?

This game has literally nothing going for it:
the story is dumb and characters are boring
quests come down to a) go there and kill something or b) go there and bring me something
combat is weak - enemy AI is super dumb, there's no encounter design and most maps are filled with trash mobs like in PoE1

You clearly have problems

so I'm just gonna leave you and your Amiri pillow alone

Just a note: The fanbois love to cheese the game by turning skill XP sharing on and off to maximise their levels. That is why the claim reaching level 20 is possible in Pitax because of this exploit. It is retarded as batshit that they have to use exploits, poor interpretation of rules, outright made-up-by-Owlcat OP shit just so that they can beat the lazy bloated stat encounters. They think that is fun. That is the level of psychosis you are arguing with.

 

[Nano]

Just saved the Stefano guy from Pitax from trolls. He showed me how grateful he was by declaring that they want to vassalize me, so I decided to murder him.

I expected it to be a tough fight, but he and his bodyguards didn't even manage to get one hit in because they all failed their save against Fascinate, which I already had up because of the trolls. Executed the bodyguards one by one, then hit Stefano with a Cacophonous Call before my party pummeled him to death.

This is a reminder that bards are wicked fucking strong in this game. That was so fucking cool.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, the exact shit you’re too lazy to look for. Why do you bother even playing? Really don’t get it.

I'm not, like I said, I reached the stag lord and I'm bored to death. I asked if there's anything more to this game apart from boring trash combat and now that I know there isn't I'm done with it.

You said the EXP wasn’t there. I explained where it is.

No, I said the non-combat exp is pitiful and it is. You did nothing to disprove it. If you collect ALL non-combat exp in chapter 1, how many levels will you get?

This game has literally nothing going for it:
the story is dumb and characters are boring
quests come down to a) go there and kill something or b) go there and bring me something
combat is weak - enemy AI is super dumb, there's no encounter design and most maps are filled with trash mobs like in PoE1

You clearly have problems

so I'm just gonna leave you and your Amiri pillow alone

Just a note: The fanbois love to cheese the game by turning skill XP sharing on and off to maximise their levels. That is why the claim reaching level 20 is possible in Pitax because of this exploit. It is retarded as batshit that they have to use exploits, poor interpretation of rules, outright made-up-by-Owlcat OP shit just so that they can beat the lazy bloated stat encounters. They think that is fun. That is the level of psychosis you are arguing with.

It’s a simple matter off turning off XP sharing of skill checks with group and leaving it there. How does the group get EXP from somebody else picking a lock? Same amount of EXP, just a question of how its divided. You can monkey around with the other toggle very early but you’re only getting a couple thousand EXP at most out of that before you hit six companions and its moot.

I’m using Paizo’s normally powered shit that they wrote into the rules instead of nerfing myself into oblivion like you do splashing DD like you’re still playing 3.5 and playing the whole game underleveled.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I’m level seven dumbass.

I thought you were a level 5 at best.

 

[Blackmill]

In terms of combat, Pitax proved the most fun area of the game so far. I brought Octavia to do her companion quest, not realizing how much combat there would be, so it was effectively a 5 player party (Octavia was level 6).

The golden golem room was the first tough fight. I started by summoning a purple wurm with my druid, but two turns later the wurm was caught by a prismatic surge, went insane, and swallowed whole the druid who had just summoned it. The same turn, my duelist went insane. I managed to salvage the fight by running my occultist through the horde of constructs to cast heal on the wurm, then summon spamming from a corner. But it cost all my summoning resources.

The hallway before encountering Irovetti was also super close. Two consecutive 20s and a high roll killed my duelist on the first turn. My druid's animal companion was knocked out, so suddenly, there was no frontline to speak of. Soon, my occultist was the only character left alive. I used a scroll of time stop, retreated to the previous room, and raised a small horde of undead. I went back to clear the hallway with a combination of slow spells and zombies. That marked the first time I've finished a fight with only one character left alive, and against roughly a dozen enemies too.

Then there was Irovetti. I was expecting him to be in his quarters, so the encounter took me by surprise, and I had no buffs prepared. Irovetti initiated with overwhelming pressence, and my party rolled very poorly, but crucially my cleric resisted the spell. On her turn, she cast cast joyful rapture and freed everyone else to act (note: the game is bugged, and joyful rapture doesn't remove harmful emotion effects as it should, so I used Toy Box to remove the overwhelming presence effect). On her next turn, my cleric cast holy word and was able to blind or paralyze every enemy but Irovetti. After killing his minions, my occultist raised the dead troll, and got very lucky when Irovetti failed his save against hold monster. Seizing the opportunity, my occultist commanded the reanimated troll guard to coup de grâce Irovetti, finishing what was definitely the most satisfying combat encounter so far in Kingmaker.

Spoiler

Overall, I managed to clear (nearly) the whole area with no rests and no meta knowledge. Now I just need to deal with that crazed wizard in the basement, but I'll need a few items that I didn't have on me...

 

[Desiderius]

I’m level seven dumbass.

I thought you were a level 5 at best.

No, I can Disarm Traps and pass skill checks.

And in fact I’m still a little short of 7 since I’ve run out of time to get the Dueling Sword I want because the CotW Necklace of Double Crosses actually has the downside implemented.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Spoiler

Yes, the exact shit you’re too lazy to look for. Why do you bother even playing? Really don’t get it.

Spoiler

I'm not, like I said, I reached the stag lord and I'm bored to death. I asked if there's anything more to this game apart from boring trash combat and now that I know there isn't I'm done with it.

You said the EXP wasn’t there. I explained where it is.

No, I said the non-combat exp is pitiful and it is. You did nothing to disprove it. If you collect ALL non-combat exp in chapter 1, how many levels will you get?

This game has literally nothing going for it:
the story is dumb and characters are boring
quests come down to a) go there and kill something or b) go there and bring me something
combat is weak - enemy AI is super dumb, there's no encounter design and most maps are filled with trash mobs like in PoE1

You clearly have problems

so I'm just gonna leave you and your Amiri pillow alone

Just a note: The fanbois love to cheese the game by turning skill XP sharing on and off to maximise their levels. That is why the claim reaching level 20 is possible in Pitax because of this exploit. It is retarded as batshit that they have to use exploits, poor interpretation of rules, outright made-up-by-Owlcat OP shit just so that they can beat the lazy bloated stat encounters. They think that is fun. That is the level of psychosis you are arguing with.

I do that for the beginning of Wrath to get an early levelling boost which is swallowed up by the total XP you earn before chapter 3 starts. It's a bit cheesy, but hardly breaks the game as you have to play through the most difficult part of the game with only 4 party members.

I wouldn't do it for Kingmaker, though. It's inefficient and you're better off building a MC with good ranks in trickery and persuasion (and if you have spare, then Knowledge: Arcana/World, Mobility, or Athletics) then keeping 'skill check user gets XP' switched on; it's far more efficient.

 

[Drunken Irishman]

Been playing this game for the past month. It really doesn't give you a good first impression, doesn't it? The characters feel weird and stupid w weird sexual kinks, the dialogue boring, the first two chapters are annoying... and then something clicks...

I really really enjoyed chapter 3 and chapter 4. I'm in chapter 5 at the moment.

Vordokai's Tomb was unfair and nasty... c'mon, I just barely survived the first battle with soul eaters and now you throw some more at me?! and I had limited resources.... but what a satisfying feeling it is to complete it.

And I've started to like some of the characters - even Tristian seems kinda cool now.

I wouldn't have said it after chapter 2, but I'm fairly confident to say it now - this is better than PoE.

It's not a game I can recommend, cause it takes some 10-15 hours to become good, but so far it's been a very satisfying experience.

 

[volklore]

How are shadow spells working in this? I remember them being broken in it and wotr, but i admitedly played KM last a long time ago. Are the shadow conjured versions mind-affecting? How is the DC calculated both for the will save to disbelieve and the save for the actual effect (do both take into account mind-affecting/illusion DC buffs )?

 

[Desiderius]

How are shadow spells working in this? I remember them being broken in it and wotr, but i admitedly played KM last a long time ago. Are the shadow conjured versions mind-affecting? How is the DC calculated both for the will save to disbelieve and the save for the actual effect (do both take into account mind-affecting/illusion DC buffs )?

CotW fixes this for P:K. There's a github mod (Tabletop Tweaks) that fixes it for Wrath and a very good race-specific Arcanist that makes good use of them - Phantasmal Mage. The run I have on hold until game gets fixed has one as MC with Azata.

Whoever Wrath has fixing bugs now has already implemented some of the things from that github mod so assuming he's aware of it.

 

[Average Manatee]

re: skill check user gets XP, you can turn it on/off mid-conversation and there's basically only like 3 instances in the game in which you need to do it to get ~2-3 levels ahead of the rest of the party for meeting really high persuasion checks. Plus its close to the end of the game where your party is about to be re-leveled up to your MC's level in HatEoT, or you can start messing around with whatever meme multiclass merc build that would suck to actually level but rapes face at level 20.

 

[Desiderius]

multiclass merc build that would suck to actually level but rapes face at level 20.

This isn't a thing.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

It’s a simple matter off turning off XP sharing of skill checks with group and leaving it there.

The XP guides tell you to have skill XP sharing turned off for the checks your MC makes, but turn sharing back on for the checks other party members make. They also tell you to play with "only active companions receive xp" on, but turn it off temporarily right before picking up new members.

I am open to a fair amount of in-game cheese, but at this point you're just playing the options screen, not the game. If this is your style, have fun. I hear you can beat the game on unfair by playing through it in story mode, then turning the difficulty to unfair when the last boss is at 5% HP.

 

[Stoned Ape]

It’s a simple matter off turning off XP sharing of skill checks with group and leaving it there.

The XP guides tell you to have skill XP sharing turned off for the checks your MC makes, but turn sharing back on for the checks other party members make. They also tell you to play with "only active companions receive xp" on, but turn it off temporarily right before picking up new members.

I am open to a fair amount of in-game cheese, but at this point you're just playing the options screen, not the game. If this is your style, have fun. I hear you can beat the game on unfair by playing through it in story mode, then turning the difficulty to unfair when the last boss is at 5% HP.

Whoever writes the XP guides are idiots, then.

Toggling the only active companions receive XP only works if you're running a smaller than usual party.

It's really not worth doing that in Kingmaker unless you're intending to complete the game solo, or with a two to three character party*. If that's the case, there's no point toggling the active companion XP button when picking up new companions as you're not going to use them.

90%+ of the skill check XP is gained from persuasion or trickery checks, so as long as the MC has those skills there's no need to mess about with switching the toggle off if other party members get to make the odd skill check here or there.

*aside from certain builds, this will make the game more difficult than playing it normally with a 6 character party, anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

It’s a simple matter off turning off XP sharing of skill checks with group and leaving it there.

The XP guides tell you to have skill XP sharing turned off for the checks your MC makes, but turn sharing back on for the checks other party members make. They also tell you to play with "only active companions receive xp" on, but turn it off temporarily right before picking up new members.

I am open to a fair amount of in-game cheese, but at this point you're just playing the options screen, not the game. If this is your style, have fun. I hear you can beat the game on unfair by playing through it in story mode, then turning the difficulty to unfair when the last boss is at 5% HP.

I wrote the original guide. But all of that only matters very early before you have six companions.

Turning the skill check sharing off and leaving it off isn’t cheese, it just makes sense. There are some pretty fat Athletics checks MC misses out on but them’s the breaks.

 

[Average Manatee]

multiclass merc build that would suck to actually level but rapes face at level 20.

This isn't a thing.

Jesus christ just stop posting. It's obviously a thing that you can create a build that has a weak point at low levels but is stronger at higher levels. Classes have level 20 capstone abilities that you can make a whole build around from level 1-19 but not actually use until you hit the level cap. It's not hard to come up with something that you'd rather not spend 95% of the game leveling with but want to play around with at level 20. If you want to do this then you want to hit level 20 in Pitax or even pre-Pitax, not halfway through HatEoT.