KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Supermedo]

Whats up with cRPG made with Unity and shit loading times

 

[santino27]

So what's the Kredible Kodex Konsensus?

Comparing it to Deadfire (the most recent isometric RTwP RPG), these are my personal feelings...

Details behind spoilers, so autists don't rage.

Spoiler

Technical Proficiency: Giving the nod to POE2 here, as I feel like a lot of their systems (UI, and underlying mechanics) are more polished. The graphics and special effects are also better. Generally, Deadfire feels like a second game in a series, with all the resulting technical improvements therein (even if the writing failed to hold up its end of the bargain). Kingmaker has a lot going on, but could have done with a second pass in some areas, especially given the complexity of Pathfinder rules. (Right-clicking a feat and showing a tree of what other feats depend on that feat as a pre-requisite would be nice. Showing basic weapon stats when choosing things like weapon focus would too.) Graphics in Pathfinder are good, but not quite as nice as Deadfire.
Winner: Deadfire

Art Style: Depends on preference in my opinion. I think POE2 is a very good looking game. Kingmaker is a pretty good looking game, but the art style is a more cartoony. I actually kind of prefer the latter, to my own surprise.
Winner: Kingmaker

Combat: POE2's combat feels more complex and weighty than Kingmaker, but I think that's because Kingmaker does a better job of hiding the complexity under the hood. Things like shooting into combat, proper concealment, etc. Both have weather effects/terrain that matter, but I feel the impact of them more in Kingmaker.
Winner: Tie. I enjoy Kingmaker combat more but am not sure if that's more because of encounter design and recognizable D&Dish monsters/spells/feats than the actual combat systems.

Encounter design: I keep restarting in Kingmaker, so I'm not very far into it, but so far, trash mobs aside, the encounters have been way more memorable than all but a few in POE2. (Note: I haven't played the two DLCs for POE2) It's nice to see monsters I actually recognize rather than the Deadfire pseudo-versions of them too.
Winner: Kingmaker

Main story: Given that Deadfire's story was basically an afterthought, Kingmaker wins this one hands-down. I'm only a little of the way into the kingdom building stuff, but I do like the political power struggle as described far more tahn the faux colonialism situation in Deadfire.
Winner: Kingmaker

General Writing: Neither game has writing to write home about, in my opinion. Deadfire's companions are dumpsterfire bad, its introduction was awful, and the individual pieces throughout the game vary wildly in quality. Pathfinder has an unbelievable number of typos and that's-not-english text.
Winner: Non-native English speakers.

Companions: I don't like most of the companions in either game. In Deadfire, I was fine with Eder, Maia and (occasionally) Serafen, hated Xoti and Tekehu, and didn't care about the rest. In Kingmaker, I like Linzi and Amiri (a stereotypical dumb barbarian but also someone who is constantly making shit up when boasting of her explots to Linzi), don't know wtf the devs were thinking with Valerie, don't much like the Octavia/Regongar polyamorous couple, and don't care about the rest. I haven't seen Nok-Nok yet, so maybe Chris Avellone 's contribution here will settle the score.
Winner: Solo players or those who cheat to give themselves gold and buy mercenaries as soon as they reach Oleg's.

World: Deadfire was more interesting than the Dyrwood region covered in POE1, but all the factions often felt (to me) like mere window dressing for the underlying <we're here to give you quests> mechanics. Both games have some serious lore dumps, but (perhaps unsurprisingly, given the wealth of history behind it), Kingmaker's world is more interesting to me.
Winner: Kingmaker

RPG-ness: Neither is TB, which probably disqualifies both games in some people's mind, but POE2 seemed like a very clinical affair (when dopey companions weren't constantly propositioning you on the ship), while Kingmaker does a really great job of feeling like a D&D adventure module.
Winner: Kingmaker

Bugs: Both games had significant bugs on release. Deadfire's seemed more about performance and issues with their scripting (scripts firing at the wrong time, etc.), while Kingmaker's were more about mechanics, stability, and specific story points.
Winner: My ISP, who gets to laugh as I download multiple gigs of patches

Fun factor: I still haven't finished Deadfire. I've been playing Kingmaker non-stop since release. Warts, RTwP, and questionable companions notwithstanding, I'm having way more fun with it than I did Deadfire.

Overall: Kingmaker wins. I hope the devs at Owlcat get to make a sequel, because I think there is some room for improvement and the result could be amazing.

Just my $0.02. I reserve the right to change opinion once I'm done.

 

[lophiaspis]

So what's the Kredible Kodex Konsensus?

 

[santino27]

Also, this is my custom portrait for Kingmaker. Yes, dudes do sometimes play female characters.

Spoiler

 

[toro]

... too much shit ...

If you cannot see that Pathfinder's combat and systems are leaps and bounds above PoE2's ones then you are probably either retarded or technically blind.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[santino27]

I am getting hard raped by tartuccio's mercenaries. What do? party - me (wiz), valerie, amiri and jaheira (jaethal)

Take out the enemy wizard before he can enlarge his bros. Have your wizard and Linzi do crowd control.

What crowd control? everyone is lvl2 and also I don't have Linzi.

Have valerie move into the center of the room to get attention. Have Amiri charge the mage to get free attacks of opportunity when he tries to cast a spell. Have your wiz stay the hell out of the way. Have Jaethal take the archer. Also, next time get Linzi instead of jaethal.

 

[Xeon]

Also try and convince one of the companions with Tartuccio to join your side, they'll take some of the heat for a little bit.

 

[fantadomat]

Fuck,now this is quite the dilemma.....

Choosing between a ork cuck and a nigger is hard.......yeah who need a warden anyway.

 

[santino27]

... too much shit ...

If you cannot see that Pathfinder's combat and systems are leaps and bounds above PoE2's ones then you are probably either retarded or technically blind.

Stay friendly.

I was going to give the nod to Kingmaker, but I know a lot of people who really liked the combat in POE2. As I said, I'm enjoying Kingmaker more, but I feel like POE2 does a better job of presenting how those systems work to the player. People familiar with Pathfinder are jumping right in, no doubt. For me, it's more a matter of slowly peeling an onion. Oh, that works? Cool. There are some advantages with POE2 making its own system, in that some of the stuff Kingmaker brought in from Pathfinder doesn't seem to work as well in a non-RTwP system. Hard to tell if things like charges randomly not working, etc. are bugs or a result of some rule interpretation I don't know.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I am getting hard raped by tartuccio's mercenaries. What do? party - me (wiz), valerie, amiri and jaheira (jaethal)

Take out the enemy wizard before he can enlarge his bros. Have your wizard and Linzi do crowd control.

What crowd control? everyone is lvl2 and also I don't have Linzi.

You have a wizard! Keep casting daze if that’s all you have. But you should really have color spray.

 

[Ezeekiel]

... too much shit ...

If you cannot see that Pathfinder's combat and systems are leaps and bounds above PoE2's ones then you are probably either retarded or technically blind.

Hell you can even make a fighter with a two handed weapon in Pathfinder who actually does huge damage, can get multiple attacks per round as he levels up (not doomed to forever hit once an hour like in POE) even with heavy armor on etc. That alone makes it better for me already. Sawyer-style balancing ruins everything.

The rest of his points seem fair enough imo. Except the art one. Objectively false :D

 

[Shadenuat]

Fuck,now this is quite the dilemma

That's new counselor right? How do you open new position? Level up low stats like Arcane by building things?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Whats up with cRPG made with Unity and shit loading times

Lazy, lazy devs. And that's the best case scenario.

 

[Abu Antar]

Still no key, and every attempt to contact anyone from Owlcat has yielded zero response. The hilarity keeps on going.

 

[ItsChon]

Still no key, and every attempt to contact anyone from Owlcat has yielded zero response. The hilarity keeps on going.

Oh, you need a key? I got you bro, just give me a sec.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Anyone know if you can assign people to kingdom stuff while taking them with you in party?

 

[Great Deceiver]

Whats up with cRPG made with Unity and shit loading times

 

[Roguey]

Lets be honest here,there is no fucking way we will see journo's review about this game. For that they must be able to finish at least the tutorial are.......and even fucking coders are bragging about how they can't finish it!

I imagine they'll get by if they play on story time or easy.

Lazy, lazy devs. And that's the best case scenario.

The more info that needs to be saved, the longer the load.

 

[Hamster]

Fun fact - PUBG peaks at the end of schoolday, Kingmaker peaks at the end of workday.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The more info that needs to be saved, the longer the load.

Right.

 

[Grunker]

Fun fact - PUBG peaks at the end of schoolday, Kingmaker peaks at the end of workday.

View attachment 9762

 

[Echo Mirage]

Any advice for building a pure Magus?

I'm not sure on what I should be focusing on, or what spells and feats I need.

 

[fantadomat]

Fuck,now this is quite the dilemma

That's new counselor right? How do you open new position? Level up low stats like Arcane by building things?

Nah,finishing main quests.

 

[Jenkem]

jsawyer mod when