KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Yosharian]

Are monk levels worth it as a wildshape druid? do the bonuses to ac and unarmed strikes actually make it through?

Natural attacks (from Wildshaping) are not the same as Unarmed Strikes.

Monk isn't that good for Druid.

Not sure if it's in this game but in PnP you can wear Ironwood Full Plate and enchant it to give you the bonus even when you're Wildshaped.

That is what I thought about the attacks... still might be worth a dip just to get WIS + to AC.. I assume you are considered unarmoured when wild shaped? Not sure it will matter anyhow as I'm not lawfully aligned.

WIS-to-AC won't make enough of a difference. +3 Full Plate + +3 Heavy Shield is 9+3+2+3=17 AC, that's enough to make a difference.

In any case, Wildshape isn't about tanking, it's about grappling with insane Str bonuses, or scouting/infiltrating with tiny animals

 

[Elex]

32 AC in combat with level 1 character from start.

This game is so fun!

apparently this is the “core rule”(no extra stuff on the monster)

so if a character with a decent build can have 32 ac...

it’s clear that not even a perfect AI can kill him or deal damage outside of crits.

core rule are easy, that’s why they don’t put in, see “core rule” as a lower difficulty than normal feel strange.

 

[Solfear]

Hey guys,

I am playing the game for a few days now in Hard/Last Azlanti with a Two-handed warrior. I reached the bandit camp at the south-west of Oleg's trading post. I dealt with the famous spiders swarms before.

I wanted to know if someone else is trying the game in a difficulty superior to Challenging, and in Last Azlanti. Challenging Azlanti seems possible, but I have doubts about Hard Azlanti. (Kingdom Management Hard, Only active companions receive XP, Only skill user receive experience on skills checks, Weight reduces the party's speed, etc.)

What do you think?

 

[fantadomat]

He's an advisor?! I saved him, but I never found the whip when I went to the hideout later.... Huh.

Yeah,the only mage that you get the whole game and he can't be a magic advisor......

 

[Lagole Gon]

Wait, so challenging is not pure CORE rules? Hm, I knew something felt a little bit weird.

 

[Jimmious]

I thought "Normal" critical hits and "normal" enemies would be core rules.

 

[fantadomat]

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

 

[yes plz]

Okay, maybe I'm just retarded but I can't seem to find Flintlock Grasslands anywhere on my map. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[Cael]

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

That happens in most DnD games with lazy DMs because adding AC and HP no longer works as difficulty padding. Your casters get too many alternate means to hold down and get rid of enemies. It requires alternative challenges to keep things interesting.

 

[Cael]

2. Charge is in fact quite broken. In the book version it specifically does not allow you to charge through occupied squares, that is a Bull Rush. In the game's version you can go right through enemies to their back line. Normally that would require several combat manuever checks and possibly special feats or PrC abilities. The delay was likely introduced to try to balance this somewhat.

Bullrush is only if you want to push the guy backwards.

The game doesn't allow you to move through an occupied square except for a couple of instances (a very high Tumble check and, IIRC a special feat in the DMG2).

Even if they allowed it, that charge should trigger AoOs out the wazoo. Everyone and their mothers in the front line should be able to get one on the charger. That usually results in a dead charger long before he gets to the back line.

The AoO:sare in, though, but it seems you're allowed to roll Mobility or something because it's rarely an issue. I think the whole "blocked squares" thing was canned because they couldn't figure out how it would be conveyed to the player and shit.

It's already annying when things block the charge and you can't tell what, where or why, then you move two feet to the left and boom, can charge.

That is something that needs to be conveyed to the players. The great thing about 3.5 type games is that they are very rules oriented. That means that you can always rely on at least an approximation on how things should be. That, in turn, makes things easier to explain to players what they can or cannot do. Unfortunately, it also means that you need to have those rules readily available (effort), something that is usually thrown aside in favour of idiotic, non-core things like voice acting, cutscenes and movies.

 

[Elex]

Fresh review!
https://venturebeat.com/2018/10/01/...ingmaker-shows-the-value-of-a-dungeon-master/
Another case of dead due swarms, but at least he played it and even restarted!

but when dark soul do the same it’s a genial game design.

(btw why he don’t have googled pathfinder ruleset? someone that talk about dungeon master don’t even know how to check a monster stat????)

 

[Cael]

If everyone has AC 38 and an attack bonus in the 18 range, I'd say the game is going to be a case of miss-miss-miss-miss-20! Start the fight and go for a cup of coffee.

Yes and no. There are out-of-depth enemies everywhere who have more class levels than they should, but that Owlbear is a special case. You're really not supposed to fight it.

The owlbear aside, they replaced the CR3 bear with a treant-bear. They jacked up a lot of the enemies that you were supposed to fight. That is basically just bad and lazy design work.

The Monster Manual has an entire section devoted to how to make your own monster. It has a guide to AC, HD, AB and special abilities and how to eyeball the CR of the creature. One of the things it makes VERY clear is what range of AC and AB a monster should have for its CR. It is of such fundamental importance that they devoted much of the section to it. Owlcat basically kicked it to the kerb, and its fanbois are unhappy people are pointing that out.

 

[Cael]

Sweet Zombie Jesus, it's 30 gb, that's going to take half a day on my connection. When did rpgs became this big? Am I just too old?

I would prefer paying extra for a couple of DVDs over such a huge / slow download! Confoundingly, when I registered on the Owlcat forum, and received approval to join, I was somehow immediately banned before ever writing a first message there! I've never heard of such a thing!

Skip it. For something that is supposed to follow the written modules, it did a piss poor job of it.

They had one job. Just one: COPY the written module into a game. They failed.

 

[Solfear]

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

If this comment was addressed to me, in what difficulty are you playing and are you playing in Last Azlanti too?

Thanks.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Someone can suggest some nice builds for Linzi? Since I cannot respec her stats in some way, I need somehow optimize her, because hiring mercs expensive ( fixed my problems with hiring btw) and game does NOT easy forgive party where one member have a bad build.

P.S. Yeah, I know that on first level mercs cost 500g, but still.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Fresh review!
https://venturebeat.com/2018/10/01/...ingmaker-shows-the-value-of-a-dungeon-master/
Another case of dead due swarms, but at least he played it and even restarted!

To be honest, he makes a good argument - "I'm playing a computer game, so I'm not obligated to know the rules, and the game doesn't explain them to me". In the times of Baldur's Gate there weren't that many forums for whiners and people would just read the manual.

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

Now there is an area where Deadfire is superior!

 

[Lagole Gon]

Difficulty

Internet says:

It looks more complicated that it is, but gist is the math works out so that the weak, normal, strengthened, and insane options grant a -2, 0, +2, +4 bonus to the modifiers of various stats. The important distinction to make here is that the bonus is added to the modifier and not the base score. So if a Troll has a Strength of 26 (+8), bumping the difficulty up one notch would turn it into a 26 (+10). Notice that the actual Strength score doesn't increase; just the modifier.

Anyway, it does that for the six core stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha), and then does it again for perception, AC, attack, and saves. The problem here is that the "derivative" stats are double-dipping when the difficulty changes. So a Normal Troll has +8 Strength mod, but a Strengthened Troll will have a +10 and a +2 attack modifier. So end result is a Strengthened Troll effectively has 8 higher strength than normal. If you bump it up to an Insane Troll, it gets a +12 Strength mod and a +4 attack modifier, effectively granting the troll 16 Strength higher than normal.

Ruskies gonna ruskie.

It seems that challenging with normal enemies is the way to go.

This guy also recommends "Weaker enemies" because devs gave random boosts to monsters, but... eh... I'm fine with trolls having different stats than PnP pathfinder.
But crude stat changes like +2 attack from fucking nowhere drive me nuts. Math should be elegant!

 

[fantadomat]

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

If this comment was addressed to me, in what difficulty are you playing and are you playing in Last Azlanti too?

Thanks.

I am doing a custom difficulty with everything on normal and the damage received on 1. And have no idea what "Last Azlanti" is.

 

[fantadomat]

Now there is an area where Deadfire is superior!

Still harder than deadfire.

 

[Cael]

Well the game becomes a lot easier after level 10. Now i frequently check if i am on normal i had lowered the difficulty by mistake.

If this comment was addressed to me, in what difficulty are you playing and are you playing in Last Azlanti too?

Thanks.

I am doing a custom difficulty with everything on normal and the damage received on 1. And have no idea what "Last Azlanti" is.

Azlant is the Paizo Atlantis analog. The Last Azlanti is the hero who became the god of humanity via that silly stone and blew up some time ago causing all sorts of havoc.

In terms of the game, it is probably one of the highest difficulty levels, given what that guy was supposed to have achieved.

Yes, I know a bit about the Pathfinder setting. Probably more than I should, given the paizotard fanbois' reaction to knowledgeable people.

 

[Solfear]

Last Azlanti = Iron man, you have only one save and if your main character dies, the save is erased.

Someone playing in this mode with a higher than Challenging difficulty? To know if someone made it far into the game with this difficulty or if I am the only madman that will die trying.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I wouldn't play this game on ironman without first playing it normally, there's too many surprise difficulty spikes that you wouldn't know to avoid.

 

[ga♥]

Best Linzi build: leave her and take Jaethal.

 

[Cael]

My only bother is that my wizard with spell focus + greater spell focus (enchantment) and Int 20 (so a DC of 10 + 5 +2 +1 or sleep) fails in 90% of cases to enchant enemies with Sleep or hypnotist or daze at *level2*. What gives? Am I making some error?

DC of 18 isn't that high. A level 1 enemy with +0 Will has a 15% chance of resisting it. With bonuses due to extra stats + general bonuses from difficulty or just plain Owlcat fuckery, a much higher chance to resist shouldn't be out of the question.

 

[Cael]

My only bother is that my wizard with spell focus + greater spell focus (enchantment) and Int 20 (so a DC of 10 + 5 +2 +1 or sleep) fails in 90% of cases to enchant enemies with Sleep or hypnotist or daze at *level2*. What gives? Am I making some error?

DC of 18 isn't that high. A level 1 enemy with +0 Will has a 15% chance of resisting it. With bonuses due to extra stats + general bonuses from difficulty or just plain Owlcat fuckery, a much higher chance to resist shouldn't be out of the question.

I think that the latter is the case and enemies have way too many hidden boni. I want a transparent understanding of what a DC 20 Sleep spell is targeting damn it.

There is also that HD limit for Sleep. If they increased the HD of enemies, that basically renders Sleep useless.