KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cael]

Can you quote that text?

Just for these that didn't pirate that game.

Here, it's timestamped:


I think it fits the general tone of the writing and this is much ado about nothing, as is the whole drama around the writing right now, coming from "critics" who have played for a couple of hours and are questioning people for "not having played".

"I am undead" in fantasy terms, especially DnD type fantasy, means planting a bullseye on your chest.

You just have narrow imagination. This is your friendly shopkeeper Lich for tonight.

The first thing I said after her response, as I was watching it together with someone, was "Alright, the Evangeline Lilly-deadringer is an elven litch. Cool."

...Oh god. That writing... Whoever that wrote it doesn't realise what media he is in. He is writing as if it was a novel.

 

[AwesomeButton]

...Oh god. That writing... Whoever that wrote it doesn't realise what media he is in. He is writing as if it was a novel.

Keep in mind I've been playing Deadfire a lot lately, my standards are as low as they can possibly be. I've also played TToN(!)

Still, the tone and style is not much different than, say, Jaheira's reaction to Khalid's dead body, except this is completely voiced, and Jaheria's lines were only partially voiced. I think the narration is a large part of the problem. Long sentences sound much more awkward than they would if you were reading them without actually hearing the words being narrated by someone. Probably the reason why I hate listening to let's players narrating unvoiced dialogue in an attempt to help the viewers.

 

[Infinitron]

Stuff I'm interested in:

1) How linear is the game?
2) How small are its areas?
3) Are there segments of the game that feel like they're "abridged", like say in Storm of Zehir where you can visit a big city but only get to see a small portion of it?
4) Do any of the above become more true later in the game, particularly after the beta content?

Basically I'm really curious to know how well they tackled having to implement a seven chapter tabletop adventure in a single game.

 

[Luckmann]

It's in her best interest to tell you she's undead, otherwise you'd gib her with the first healing spell you cast on her.

Only if she joins your party. If that is the case, she may trust you enough to reveal that she is undead.

You do not say "I am undead" to a total stranger as the first thing out of your mouth (or even close to that). It is bad writing. Perhaps the writer had a block or derped, but it is still bad writing.

You are not a total stranger, you were both at the gathering that evening, one assumes you at least noticed each other. So you are obviously more an ally than an assassin.

Yeah, but it is also very obvious that when you were at that gathering, you had no idea she was undead. Don't brush this off as some minor point. It's a big fucking deal in most settings, including Golarion, and judging by the possible reactions to the reveal (if it can even be referred to as such), the circumstance in which we find ourselves is no exception.

It's in her best interest to tell you she's undead, otherwise you'd gib her with the first healing spell you cast on her.

The fact that the game pulls no punches in terms of other mechanics just makes the spoonfeeding of the narrative aspects of this character's mechanical interaction worse, not better.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's right. Small areas are a big downer in Deadfire (and PoE) for me, so I sure want to know these things.

 

[Cael]

...Oh god. That writing... Whoever that wrote it doesn't realise what media he is in. He is writing as if it was a novel.

Keep in mind I've been playing Deadfire a lot lately, my standards are as low as they can possibly be. I've also played TToN(!)

Still, the tone and style is not much different than, say, Jaheira's reaction to Khalid's dead body, except this is completely voiced. I think the narration is a large part of the problem. Long sentences sound much more awkward than they would if you were reading them without actually hearing the words being narrated by someone. Probably the reason why I hate listening to let's players narrating unvoiced dialogue in an attempt to help the viewers.

Not only the long sentences, but the whole "She looks at her as if she was an irritating fly" type of writing. You don't do that in a visual medium.

Let's take an example of Dragon Age Origins. There is a part in Ostegar where you and Alistair basically have a hilarious conversation in front of Duncan. When it got to the totally absurd (Alistair refusing to dance the Rheimigold down the darkspawn lines), Duncan just gave a most put upon sigh and changed the subject. No narration of what any of the characters were doing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

"She looks at her as if she was an irritating fly"

I totally agree, no need to convince me. This descriptive text was a mistake that began with PoE. As RPG players we know these things should be left to the imagination, but we live in an age where RPG writers haven't played RPGs and there's no one to explain it to them, probably for fear of this getting classified as "mansplaining" or whatever.

 

[Urthor]

Owlcat had a quarter of the Kickstarter funding than Obsidian did with Pillars but is more of an IE successor? And Obsidian has employees that worked on the IE games. And this is more fun. I don't even...

Software development is a fuck of a lot easier when literally every single game mechanic of your game is handily supplied for you in a bunch of documents by Paizo called the core rule set.

 

[Luckmann]

Ways like? Do explain.

Like what?

"Let's discuss that later, if we live that long. You remember me from the meeting, yes? We need to hurry. Take care up ahead, there are numerous traps."


At least *try* to deflect first, then lie, and *then*, if pressed further, do the whole "Try to contain yourself and hold your sword, but I'm of the reincarnationally disinclined, or as others would put it, a conscientious objector to the living state."


Again, there's a million different ways to write this other than "I'm undead. I'll tell you later."

Yes, but is it worse than: "Hi! I'm a tranny!"

Honestly, it's pretty equal. It's shitty pretty much for the exact same reasons. The issue in Siege of Dragqueenspear was never really that there *was* a tranny, but the way it was written, and this is exactly the same type of awful, awful writing.

I'm sure it is just a (((coincidence))) that it seems to be written by the same subset of people.

 

[AwesomeButton]

At least *try* to deflect first, then lie, and *then*, if pressed further, do the whole "Try to contain yourself and hold your sword, but I'm of the reincarnationally disinclined, or as others would put it, a conscientious objector to the living state."

I disagree. This kind of trying to imitate realistic characters in an isometric fantasy RPG is much of what made Deadfire's writing so boring.

 

[Shadenuat]

It gets a lot easier if you know how to build characters as the game goes on as you can repair and work around their bad decisions

Agreed. Although it was very true for BG series as well (Khalid, Aerie with low CON, Keldorn with low DEX, etc.)
For me it was interesting to develop and turn them into power houses with items back then, and it is interesting to do so with multiclassing and feats and equipment and potions here too.

I already want to respec out of Shield Bash though, what a trainwreck of a trait lol.

if only there was an offensive caster in the whole game.

Pathfinder has no penalties for multiclassing so you can multi whoever has some stats into one.

Stuff I'm interested in:

1) How linear is the game?
2) How small are its areas?
3) Are there segments of the game that feel like they're "abridged", like say in Storm of Zehir where you can visit a big city but only get to see a small portion of it?
4) Do any of the above become more true later in the game, particularly after the beta content?

Basically I'm really curious to know how well they tackled having to implement a seven chapter tabletop adventure in a single game.

1) Even prologue basically drops you on map and you can go and kill yourself over everything and proceed for different objectives
2) Some are small, while others are very big with multiple layers of dungeons underneath and multiple exits and entrances
3 4) Come on dude most people probably arent even through act 1 yet lolz.

 

[Luckmann]

At least *try* to deflect first, then lie, and *then*, if pressed further, do the whole "Try to contain yourself and hold your sword, but I'm of the reincarnationally disinclined, or as others would put it, a conscientious objector to the living state."

I disagree. This kind of trying to imitate realistic characters in an isometric fantasy RPG is much of what made Deadfire's writing so boring.

I haven't played Deadfire, so I can't comment, but if the only alternative is characters flat-out speaking like retards in-character, I'll take it any day.

 

[Cael]

I'm sure it is just a (((coincidence))) that it seems to be written by the same subset of people.

When dealing with virtue signallers, the term "people" must be used... judiciously...

 

[AwesomeButton]

At least *try* to deflect first, then lie, and *then*, if pressed further, do the whole "Try to contain yourself and hold your sword, but I'm of the reincarnationally disinclined, or as others would put it, a conscientious objector to the living state."

I disagree. This kind of trying to imitate realistic characters in an isometric fantasy RPG is much of what made Deadfire's writing so boring.

I haven't played Deadfire, so I can't comment, but if the only alternative is characters flat-out speaking like retards in-character, I'll take it any day.

EN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXaXZbJCK8

 

[jf8350143]

runs into a floating skeleton head with 31 ac, while my team is only level 3.

I need to roll natural 20 to hit him, and half of the time it didn't even do any damage.

 

[Tytus]

The more I read about this game, the more I want to play it.

 

[jf8350143]

Stuff I'm interested in:

1) How linear is the game?
2) How small are its areas?
3) Are there segments of the game that feel like they're "abridged", like say in Storm of Zehir where you can visit a big city but only get to see a small portion of it?
4) Do any of the above become more true later in the game, particularly after the beta content?

Basically I'm really curious to know how well they tackled having to implement a seven chapter tabletop adventure in a single game.

1) The early story is pretty linear but you can messing around and do other shit.

2) Most of the areas are pretty small but the first major dungeon is a two level big ass area, thanks to the slow walking animation it took me hours to finish it.

3) no idea yet, haven't going that far in the game.

 

[Luckmann]

At least *try* to deflect first, then lie, and *then*, if pressed further, do the whole "Try to contain yourself and hold your sword, but I'm of the reincarnationally disinclined, or as others would put it, a conscientious objector to the living state."

I disagree. This kind of trying to imitate realistic characters in an isometric fantasy RPG is much of what made Deadfire's writing so boring.

I haven't played Deadfire, so I can't comment, but if the only alternative is characters flat-out speaking like retards in-character, I'll take it any day.

EN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXaXZbJCK8

I may hate Jan Jansen, but at least he was written as a retarded character acting like a retard, sounding like a retard, and he still had the good sense to be more circumspect considering his nature and dealings. Hell, you actually had to help him *first* (after it had been implied that he was up to no good, thus informing him that you were no legal teetotaler, before he revealed anything to you at all.

 

[Infinitron]

3 4) Come on dude most people probably arent even through act 1 yet lolz.

Hey, I didn't say I was demanding an answer now. Just keep an eye on these things.

 

[fantadomat]

while others are very big with multiple layers of dungeons underneath and multiple exits and entrances

Yeah i am at the caves,it is really big and filled with trash units,it remands me of the ork mountains.

 

[Alienman]

Phew. Made it out of the tutorial. Just wondering though. Are mages supposed to miss that much with spells? I know mages have a rough time in the beginning but dear lord. My guy is as useful as a stick in the eye at the moment. Very demoralizing game when it comes to combat. I do enjoy a challenge but damn, everyone regardless of place I explore wtfpwns my little party of idiots.

 

[Fedora Master]

Those spider swarms sure are fucked up. Even when you defeat them, the ability damage is crippling. And what do you get out of that quest? One-hunnad-fiddy XP. How did nobody notice this in the beta?

 

[Infinitron]

Phew. Made it out of the tutorial. Just wondering though. Are mages supposed to miss that much with spells? I know mages have a rough time in the beginning but dear lord. My guy is as useful as a stick in the eye at the moment. Very demoralizing game when it comes to combat. I do enjoy a challenge but damn, everyone regardless of place I explore wtfpwns my little party of idiots.

What do you mean by missing with spells? Enemy saving throws?

 

[Roguey]

Getting the impression a lot of people here say it's hard because they're playing on the stat-bloat/dice-bloat difficulties i.e. not the Rules as Written.

That's why your Deadfire is tanking now, and not in the MMO sense!

Might want to wait until Kingmaker surpasses Deadfire's concurrent players to say a thing like this.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I may hate Jan Jansen, but at least he was written as a retarded character acting like a retard, sounding like a retard, and he still had the good sense to be more circumspect considering his nature and dealings. Hell, you actually had to help him *first* (after it had been implied that he was up to no good, thus informing him that you were no legal teetotaler, before he revealed anything to you at all.

I think he is representative of the general BG2 style. At least the way I remember it - my wife finished BG2/ToB a couple of months ago. If you think he is not representative, show me what you think is.