KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[vazha]

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

 

[Yosharian]

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

Are you talking about the big patch? None of those things are going to be fixed in the new patch, seriously?

 

[vazha]

According to the beta notes posted earlier, no. Well, its fine, I am burnt out already, the engame (past Pitax though it declines earlier) is a complete and utter chore I am willing to postpone indefinitely. Also that nymph is probably the least symphatetic villain I ve seen struck in an otherwise good game. If I decide to endure the machinations of a devious harpy suffering from perpetual pms, I ll go pay a visit to my gf's mom for gods sake. All this fey business I couldnt give two craps about.

 

[Yosharian]

Wow that sucks. I thought at least they would fix the worst problems.

Wait til 2019 then, I guess

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

*go to work, spend most of day writing up bug reports*

*go home, install kingmaker beta patch, spend most of night writing up bug reports*

fuck i turned into a german

 

[Alienman]

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

What's the problem with sneak attacks?

 

[Yosharian]

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

What's the problem with sneak attacks?

Applies to almost everything.

 

[Sykar]

Does it apply to non-touch/ranged attack spells without the AT class feature atm?

Wow that sucks. I thought at least they would fix the worst problems.

Wait til 2019 then, I guess

Yes I too will wait until this miss is done with its unofficial beta.

 

[Cael]

Everything about sneak attack is pretty much about making it overpowered.

Ranged sneak attack on anyone who is next to two people.
Calculation of damage applying SA damage twice or more per attack.
SA damage triggering for multiple simultaneous attacks (e.g., certain ray spells).
SA applying to a ton of things that it shouldn't.

It is ridiculous how crazy Owlcat has made SA, and all through a series of bugs or lazy "features".

 

[Sykar]

The best part about SA though is that fans defend multiple applications by for example Hellfire Ray to the death, regardless how you try to explain that this breaks the game and makes these spells far superior to any other. It does not help that every instance of developers of the P&P game explained that SA is ever only applied once per spell. Meanwhile these retards are like "but u maek tre attackz zo tre snaek attackz DEEEERRRRRPPPPPP!!!!!!"

Edit: Let's make a comparison between Hellfire Ray and Disintegrate. Both do essentially the same thing, dealing high single target damage, both ignore resistances either fully or partial, both are RTA and both are single target. Yet currently Hellfire Ray gets triple the amount of SA so there is no real reason to use Disintegrate over Hellfire Ray.
I mean a theoretical AT with 10d6 SA would get 30d6! extra damage on HR compared to Disintegrate. Full damage 75d6 vs 50d6 a whopping 50% damage difference. HR is already ahead of Disintegrate in terms of damage output against anything but fire immune enemies. What is more that you make 3 ranged attacks means that it is not nearly as binary. You will rarely deal no damage at all compared to Disintegrate though you will slightly less often get full damage. In essence the base spell deals somewhat higher damage and has more stable damage output due to it being less binary. Even if you miss one you still the same damage, 50d6. Only if you miss two which on any well build AT will be exceedingly rare will you deal less damage and missing all 3 is probably as likely to happen as winning the lottery.

Edit 2: Scorching Ray would be another great example to show how utterly broken it would be to apply 3 instances of SA. The base spell does 6d6 damage. Adding 30d6 would give you 36d6 in other words six times the damage of the original spell. This is utterly insane there are no level 3,4 or 5 spells which deal that much damage inherently. Add empower metamagic feat and 36d6 effectively becomes 54d6, more than fucking Disintegrate as a level 4 spell.
How anyone can defend this nonsense is beyond me.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Ctrl+f: type Shout ...
... no results

Might not be in the notes but greater shout did get nerfed. Stuns for only 1 round now and save negates the stun.

 

[Cael]

The best part about SA though is that fans defend multiple applications by for example Hellfire Ray to the death, regardless how you try to explain that this breaks the game and makes these spells far superior to any other. It does not help that every instance of developers of the P&P game explained that SA is ever only applied once per spell. Meanwhile these retards are like "but u maek tre attackz zo tre snaek attackz DEEEERRRRRPPPPPP!!!!!!"

I mean make a comparison of Hellfire Ray and Disintigrate. Both do essentially the same thing, dealing high single target damage, both ignore resistances either fully or partial, both are RTA and both are single target. Yet currently Hellfire Ray gets triple the amoung of SA so there is no real reason to use it over Hellfire Ray. Even against fire immunes the triple SA and getting half the damage through still makes it superior.

Yes. Kingmaker should have been a far better game without the fanbois echo-chambering their "ITZ NOT A BUG!!!!! ITZ A FEATURE!!!!!!!!" shit. As I have said before, with games like VtM, it is not the game itself that is bad, but the fanbois generating hatred towards the game because of their loud, obnoxious fanboism and pack attacks.

 

[Yosharian]

Ctrl+f: type Shout ...
... no results

Might not be in the notes but greater shout did get nerfed. Stuns for only 1 round now and save negates the stun.

Oh, well that's good, then.

 

[Reinhardt]

Ctrl+f: type Shout ...
... no results

Might not be in the notes but greater shout did get nerfed. Stuns for only 1 round now and save negates the stun.

And it's right after i've finally killed that lich...

 

[Lawntoilet]

Ctrl+f: type Shout ...
... no results

Might not be in the notes but greater shout did get nerfed. Stuns for only 1 round now and save negates the stun.

And it's right after i've finally killed that lich...

Me too, damn that stunlock + Wail was annoying.

 

[hell bovine]

Minor buggyness with Ranger bear familiar - I picked boon companion at level 5 and the bear went from level 2 to 5, then 6, but has now stayed at 6 as I leveled to 7. It still got all all the level up stats and attributes though...I think.

Animal companions don't level 1:1, though.

If I remember right, didn't it say they gain the large attribute at level 7? 'Cause my bear is level 6 and he just got gigantic. So do you mean they should be a level lower? As I mentioned though it was my level from 5>6, so questionable stuff either way.

Human companion level 7, and yes, my druid's boar is also lower in levels than him.

 

[Yosharian]

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

What's the problem with sneak attacks?

Applies to almost everything.

To elaborate, now that I have time: Sneak Attack dice is getting added to practically every damage instance that exists. There don't seem to be any checks to ensure it obeys the once-per-round/once-per-attack limitations of Pathfinder

So, when you pick up a set of gloves that adds 1d6 to your attacks, you get extra Sneak Attack on that damage.

Another example: when you cast a spell that flings several bolts towards the enemy, you get Sneak Attack dice on every projectile, instead of once per spell.

It makes Scorching Ray, Hellfire Ray, etc absurdly overpowered. They're powerful as it is even with one SA blast, but with one per projectile, it gets ridiculous fast.

 

[ArchAngel]

The best part about SA though is that fans defend multiple applications by for example Hellfire Ray to the death, regardless how you try to explain that this breaks the game and makes these spells far superior to any other. It does not help that every instance of developers of the P&P game explained that SA is ever only applied once per spell. Meanwhile these retards are like "but u maek tre attackz zo tre snaek attackz DEEEERRRRRPPPPPP!!!!!!"

Edit: Let's make a comparison between Hellfire Ray and Disintegrate. Both do essentially the same thing, dealing high single target damage, both ignore resistances either fully or partial, both are RTA and both are single target. Yet currently Hellfire Ray gets triple the amount of SA so there is no real reason to use Disintegrate over Hellfire Ray.
I mean a theoretical AT with 10d6 SA would get 30d6! extra damage on HR compared to Disintegrate. Full damage 75d6 vs 50d6 a whopping 50% damage difference. HR is already ahead of Disintegrate in terms of damage output against anything but fire immune enemies. What is more that you make 3 ranged attacks means that it is not nearly as binary. You will rarely deal no damage at all compared to Disintegrate though you will slightly less often get full damage. In essence the base spell deals somewhat higher damage and has more stable damage output due to it being less binary. Even if you miss one you still the same damage, 50d6. Only if you miss two which on any well build AT will be exceedingly rare will you deal less damage and missing all 3 is probably as likely to happen as winning the lottery.

Edit 2: Scorching Ray would be another great example to show how utterly broken it would be to apply 3 instances of SA. The base spell does 6d6 damage. Adding 30d6 would give you 36d6 in other words six times the damage of the original spell. This is utterly insane there are no level 3,4 or 5 spells which deal that much damage inherently. Add empower metamagic feat and 36d6 effectively becomes 54d6, more than fucking Disintegrate as a level 4 spell.
How anyone can defend this nonsense is beyond me.

Scorching Ray does 4d6 per ray and when you empower it you only empower the spell part, it does nothing for the sneak attack part. But since Scorching Ray is a low level spell you can Quicken it and as such cast two Scorching Ray in one round while to quicken Hellfire Ray you need a maga super expensive Rod.

 

[Jenkem]

sneak attack isn't going anywhere, on the stream the devs did with paizo (the one after the one w/ avellone) the paizo guys said they really enjoyed how they made sneak attack work in the computer game. it was mentioned unprompted by anything just watching the game being played.

 

[Cael]

sneak attack isn't going anywhere, on the stream the devs did with paizo (the one after the one w/ avellone) the paizo guys said they really enjoyed how they made sneak attack work in the computer game. it was mentioned unprompted by anything just watching the game being played.

Not surprised, Paizo is being Paizo:

"3.5 was too munchkin! It was too powergamey! So let's make our game based on 3.5 but with 100000000x more power! Woohoo! Hypocrisy? Who? Not us!"

 

[Risewild]

Next Paizo move:
Let's give the Sneak Attack feature to every class!

 

[Sykar]

The best part about SA though is that fans defend multiple applications by for example Hellfire Ray to the death, regardless how you try to explain that this breaks the game and makes these spells far superior to any other. It does not help that every instance of developers of the P&P game explained that SA is ever only applied once per spell. Meanwhile these retards are like "but u maek tre attackz zo tre snaek attackz DEEEERRRRRPPPPPP!!!!!!"

Edit: Let's make a comparison between Hellfire Ray and Disintegrate. Both do essentially the same thing, dealing high single target damage, both ignore resistances either fully or partial, both are RTA and both are single target. Yet currently Hellfire Ray gets triple the amount of SA so there is no real reason to use Disintegrate over Hellfire Ray.
I mean a theoretical AT with 10d6 SA would get 30d6! extra damage on HR compared to Disintegrate. Full damage 75d6 vs 50d6 a whopping 50% damage difference. HR is already ahead of Disintegrate in terms of damage output against anything but fire immune enemies. What is more that you make 3 ranged attacks means that it is not nearly as binary. You will rarely deal no damage at all compared to Disintegrate though you will slightly less often get full damage. In essence the base spell deals somewhat higher damage and has more stable damage output due to it being less binary. Even if you miss one you still the same damage, 50d6. Only if you miss two which on any well build AT will be exceedingly rare will you deal less damage and missing all 3 is probably as likely to happen as winning the lottery.

Edit 2: Scorching Ray would be another great example to show how utterly broken it would be to apply 3 instances of SA. The base spell does 6d6 damage. Adding 30d6 would give you 36d6 in other words six times the damage of the original spell. This is utterly insane there are no level 3,4 or 5 spells which deal that much damage inherently. Add empower metamagic feat and 36d6 effectively becomes 54d6, more than fucking Disintegrate as a level 4 spell.
How anyone can defend this nonsense is beyond me.

Scorching Ray does 4d6 per ray and when you empower it you only empower the spell part, it does nothing for the sneak attack part. But since Scorching Ray is a low level spell you can Quicken it and as such cast two Scorching Ray in one round while to quicken Hellfire Ray you need a maga super expensive Rod.

That does not change the sentiment of the post in the slightest. 4d6 per ray would be 12d6 final damage, with 3 instances of SA you would end up at 42d6 damage, and increase of more than four times. Still way over the top. Empower does not affect SA, noted. Still ends up at 48d6 damage as a level 4 spell. Utterly retarded to anyone but the most brain dead fuckwits. Even with my two errors the example clearly shows still that the mere idea of applying SA more than once per spell is a no-go.

 

[Israfael]

Wait, what? That guy was bugged?!?!? You mean to tell me I've shat blood and reloaded over a dozen times trying (and finally managing) to beat a motherfucking bug?!?!?

No, I meant that it was impossible to open the passage in the previous hotfix (even if you passed the DC check, the wall did not disappear). Not sure if they changed stats, but I guess he'd be quite hard to beat for parties without certain buffs and spells. I've juiced up pretty good before killing him, and op spells like blade barrier and sirocco, which basically ignore AC and immunities, helped a lot

 

[Jasede]

This sneak attack thing isn't gonna go away. I know plenty of people that house-rule ray spells to work as they do here. I'm utterly convinced it's working as intended.

 

[Van-d-all]

When it comes to kingdom mangement no one except Jubilost seems to know what they are doing anyway.

Delgado is a fine diplomat. I know for a fact, he has some unique solutions Linzi doesn't. Eg. the border patrol resolution to impose exorbitant fines, doesn't even show with Linzi.

So no artisan fix, no pitax vendor fix, no sneak attack fix, some weapons being still obsolete... Eh, I ll give this one a pass, thanks Owlcat.

What's the problem with sneak attacks?

Applies to almost everything.

To elaborate, now that I have time: Sneak Attack dice is getting added to practically every damage instance that exists. There don't seem to be any checks to ensure it obeys the once-per-round/once-per-attack limitations of Pathfinder

So, when you pick up a set of gloves that adds 1d6 to your attacks, you get extra Sneak Attack on that damage.

Another example: when you cast a spell that flings several bolts towards the enemy, you get Sneak Attack dice on every projectile, instead of once per spell.

It makes Scorching Ray, Hellfire Ray, etc absurdly overpowered. They're powerful as it is even with one SA blast, but with one per projectile, it gets ridiculous fast.

Hahaha. I thought it's coming from the fact they relaxed the flanking requirements, and effectively by trial and error of builds, it came to that everyone in my current party has a vivisectionist level, because it's a free 2d6 damage with accomplished sneak attacker almost with every hit.