KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cael]

Anything that has a roll can be used for sneak attack. Acid Splash qualifies, and has the added bonus of being a touch attack rather than an ordinary one?

yeah except she never, ever uses anything else, including if you give her melee stuff; she'll deliberately stay away and use acid spray instead.

That is not a bad thing. She is a Rogue/Mage, yes, with higher Dex than Str? That is really too squishy to get into melee combat. Given how they fucked up sneak attack, she is better off staying at range and plink anyone that is being attacked by someone else and claim sneak attack damage that way.

 

[glass blackbird]

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

 

[Cael]

Sure, but it does what 1-3 damage (+ sneak attack)? vs. <weapon damage, which could be 1-10 plus elemental dmg> + sneak attack. I'd like to be able to at least remove abilities from their AI by taking them off the hotbar.

The difference between touch attack and normal attack can be stark, and a rogue/mage has very poor BAB to begin with. At the higher extreme end of the difference, we have colossal dragons, which has a normal AC of about 40 and a touch AC of <8.

That said, I don't know what the algorithm of the AI is, and so can't really judge how retarded it is. From what I have read of the game in general, though, I am of the opinion that it is so retarded it makes SJWs look like flaming geniuses.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

RTwP is trash.

This is well established. Now imagine Kangmaker with hand crafted combat encouters in a TB environment similar to ToEE. You know the environment where stuffies like AoOs where designed to work with.

 

[santino27]

Sure, but it does what 1-3 damage (+ sneak attack)? vs. <weapon damage, which could be 1-10 plus elemental dmg> + sneak attack. I'd like to be able to at least remove abilities from their AI by taking them off the hotbar.

The difference between touch attack and normal attack can be stark, and a rogue/mage has very poor BAB to begin with. At the higher extreme end of the difference, we have colossal dragons, which has a normal AC of about 40 and a touch AC of <8.

That said, I don't know what the algorithm of the AI is, and so can't really judge how retarded it is. From what I have read of the game in general, though, I am of the opinion that it is so retarded it makes SJWs look like flaming geniuses.

It is extremely retarded. Regardless of the better chance to hit that acid splash may have as a ranged touch attack, AI that consistently spams it instead of literally anything else makes me question the I part of AI.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

any RTwP without a 'programmable' AI is going to disappoint.

Yeah, even some basic scripts would be nice, but it's either on or off. Ack.

 

[glass blackbird]

Autocast is also pretty ridiculous, since if you set it to a debuff they'll continue to cast even after everyone's hit, and if you set it to, say, charge, they'll run up, hit osmeone, and then stand stock still because they can't charge anyone and there's no failsafe for if there's no available targets.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Autocast is also pretty ridiculous, since if you set it to a debuff they'll continue to cast even after everyone's hit, and if you set it to, say, charge, they'll run up, hit osmeone, and then stand stock still because they can't charge anyone and there's no failsafe for if there's no available targets.

haven't found a use for autocast yet tbh, seems worthless

 

[Herethos]

any RTwP without a 'programmable' AI is going to disappoint.

Yeah, even some basic scripts would be nice, but it's either on or off. Ack.

Thats why games like Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate, Divinity Original Sin, and others had a bunch of ingame options and scripts to choose from to tweak the AI.

 

[Cael]

Sure, but it does what 1-3 damage (+ sneak attack)? vs. <weapon damage, which could be 1-10 plus elemental dmg> + sneak attack. I'd like to be able to at least remove abilities from their AI by taking them off the hotbar.

The difference between touch attack and normal attack can be stark, and a rogue/mage has very poor BAB to begin with. At the higher extreme end of the difference, we have colossal dragons, which has a normal AC of about 40 and a touch AC of <8.

That said, I don't know what the algorithm of the AI is, and so can't really judge how retarded it is. From what I have read of the game in general, though, I am of the opinion that it is so retarded it makes SJWs look like flaming geniuses.

It is extremely retarded. Regardless of the better chance to hit that acid splash may have as a ranged touch attack, AI that consistently spams it instead of literally anything else makes me question the I part of AI.

Yeah. To be honest, the thing I love about Dragon Age is the programmable AI. That lets you set situations where the toon will do something automatically, which is great for emergencies (your mage getting surrounded and you weren't look at her because you were busy elsewhere, and she automatically casts that area stun because you set it that way, giving you time to react), and you can prioritise the actions, too. It makes a chaotic RT battle far more fluid, less abuse of the pause button and requires less micro. It also makes the Tactics skill something I prioritise to get more lines of programming in.

AI that comes prepackaged with games tend to be horribly dumb. BG is a good example. The scripts there are horrible and frequently fail to fight even with a modicum of intelligence. Take the archer one. It will keep attacking the nearest target, which is frequently what you do NOT want it to do. The toon is a freaking archer. Shoot the bloody mage, not the frontliners!

 

[Zero Credibility]

I've set autocast to Touch of Fatigue on my magus. Two attacks at -2 are better than one normal, and the fatigue effect is just a bonus.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

Maybe the spell is set to autocast?

 

[Agame]

The big question: should one play this now because it is , or wait for serious patching so as not to ruin the experience with bugs?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

Maybe the spell is set to autocast?

Just so we're clear, what's her int score? Maybe the AI works within the scope of the INT score.

By the way, what the hell is a ranged touch attack? I've been seeing that since ToEE and it's confused me to no end. How is it ranged if it's a touch attack?

 

[Cael]

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

Maybe the spell is set to autocast?

Just so we're clear, what's her int score? Maybe the AI works within the scope of the INT score.

By the way, what the hell is a ranged touch attack? I've been seeing that since ToEE and it's confused me to no end. How is it ranged if it's a touch attack?

Touch attack in DnD doesn't mean you have to physically touch the guy. It means the AC of the guy as if you only need to touch him instead of having to bash through layers of armour. Therefore, a touch AC takes out things like natural armour, shield and armour bonuses. You only get deflection, dex, dodge, size and sacred/profane bonuses to your touch AC.

Touch attacks can be both melee and ranged.

To use an example I used above, a colossal dragon has dex 10 and a TON of natural AC. That makes his normal AC in the 40 range. If you use a sword on him, you have to bash through his scales and so the 40 takes effect.

But, if you only need to touch him and let magic do the rest, then his hardened scales mean nothing. And his size actually makes it easier for you to target him. Therefore, you take out all his natural bonus to AC and he also takes a penalty for his size (which is also present in normal AC but far overshadowed by his natural AC). That drops his AC to less than 8 (more like the 4-6 range, IIRC).

 

[santino27]

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

Maybe the spell is set to autocast?

Just so we're clear, what's her int score? Maybe the AI works within the scope of the INT score.

Her int is 19, (21 since I gave her a hat) so... probably not.

Regardless, the bow I have equipped on her would be much better as an auto-attack, and would obviously still trigger sneak attacks when possible.

Maybe the spell is set to autocast?

Doesn't seem to be... there's a glowing border around the icon if it is set to autocast.

The trick I've found is to keep her within bow range but out of acid splash range. It wastes point blank shot, but is still preferable. Dragon Age's or POE2's customizable AI scripting would be a huge incline.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Played a bunch of this today and I just have to say Eldritch Scion/Dragon Disciple is the shit. Patches have made the game less of a pain (I still think it's unbelievable that they shipped with a bug that made it impossible to select characters with hotkeys. Fucking ruskies.)

I'm also annoyed as fuck by Octavia's AI. She really does love some acid splash.

 

[glass blackbird]

and damn, I love Valerie as a tank when all the enemy has to do to get sneak attacks with guaranteed damage is have two people next to her attack her at once, definitely makes sense with that design to have a dedicated tank character

 

[Grunker]

Jaedar Shadenuat just checked my old Kingmaker pdfs. The bear in the adventure is actually a Grizzly Bear (CR4) but cursed (so CR3). Not at all what you seem to have faced

 

[Yosharian]

Hideous Laughter:

This spell afflicts the subject with uncontrollable laughter. It collapses into gales of manic laughter, falling prone. The subject can take no actions while laughing, but is not considered helpless. After the spell ends, it can act normally. On the creature’s next turn, it may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If this save is successful, the effect ends. If not, the creature continues laughing for the entire duration. A creature with an Intelligence score of 2 or lower is not affected. A creature whose type is different from the caster’s receives a +4 bonus on its saving throw, because humor doesn’t “translate” well.

- 1 round per level duration
- Subject gets a new save every turn
- +4 bonus for not being humanoid

Seems balanced to me.

Hold Person:

The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.

- 1 round per level duration
- Subject gets a new save every turn
- Trolls are humanoid

Again, seems fine to me.

Both of these spells seem more or less identical to their D&D counterparts, even 2nd Edition Hold Person states that it works on humanoids. Maybe Trolls weren't classed as humanoids in 2nd Edition. In any case 2nd Edition Hold Person worked on groups of creatures and, if I remember correctly, didn't include a new save each turn.

Trolls are not humanoid except in shape. Never have been. They are classed as giants. Again, unless Paizo screwed the pooch.

A troll is a humanoid. 'Giant' and 'humanoid' are not mutually exclusive.

Trolls have hands, arms, legs, a human-like body, they have intelligence, etc. It's not at all unreasonable to classify them as humanoids.

If you want to argue that Trolls shouldn't be targetable by the Hold Person spell for gameplay balance reasons, then that's fine, but arguing that they aren't humanoid by definition is ridiculous.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Wow I member POE2 and at day 3 there was like 50% drop in players.... this game lost like 1k from 15.5 peak...
PS still no reviews from jurnos... PC gamer writes about wow addons (Oh my god)
RPS writes about some card retarded games, mmo taunts and shit....

on my steam it still has the game as the number #1 selling game, Does that mean in the US? In any case it seems to be doing well despite all the whining.

 

[Elex]

Wow I member POE2 and at day 3 there was like 50% drop in players.... this game lost like 1k from 15.5 peak...
PS still no reviews from jurnos... PC gamer writes about wow addons (Oh my god)
RPS writes about some card retarded games, mmo taunts and shit....

on my steam it still has the game as the number #1 selling game, Does that mean in the US? In any case it seems to be doing well despite all the whining.

the game is doing well still top 5 and 10-15k player +gog

and that with no promotion, 1 review and 1 streamer

 

[Cael]

Hideous Laughter:

This spell afflicts the subject with uncontrollable laughter. It collapses into gales of manic laughter, falling prone. The subject can take no actions while laughing, but is not considered helpless. After the spell ends, it can act normally. On the creature’s next turn, it may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If this save is successful, the effect ends. If not, the creature continues laughing for the entire duration. A creature with an Intelligence score of 2 or lower is not affected. A creature whose type is different from the caster’s receives a +4 bonus on its saving throw, because humor doesn’t “translate” well.

- 1 round per level duration
- Subject gets a new save every turn
- +4 bonus for not being humanoid

Seems balanced to me.

Hold Person:

The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.

- 1 round per level duration
- Subject gets a new save every turn
- Trolls are humanoid

Again, seems fine to me.

Both of these spells seem more or less identical to their D&D counterparts, even 2nd Edition Hold Person states that it works on humanoids. Maybe Trolls weren't classed as humanoids in 2nd Edition. In any case 2nd Edition Hold Person worked on groups of creatures and, if I remember correctly, didn't include a new save each turn.

Trolls are not humanoid except in shape. Never have been. They are classed as giants. Again, unless Paizo screwed the pooch.

A troll is a humanoid. 'Giant' and 'humanoid' are not mutually exclusive.

Trolls have hands, arms, legs, a human-like body, they have intelligence, etc. It's not at all unreasonable to classify them as humanoids.

If you want to argue that Trolls shouldn't be targetable by the Hold Person spell for gameplay balance reasons, then that's fine, but arguing that they aren't humanoid by definition is ridiculous.

Humanoid is a creature type in DnD games. It does NOT refer to its body shape. For purposes of spells and other effects, we refer to creature type, not body shape.

Have you even played DnD before???

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Have you even played DnD before???

this isn't DnD though

 

[yes plz]

So, does the kingdom management sim part really have any effect on anything outside of its own stats? It's like some sort of weird uroborus that exists only to feed its own existence. I recently upgraded my capital into a city and there was no reference to it anywhere and nothing changed at all. In fact, I had built a hospital in the capital and some time later a character was whining about how there aren't any hospitals in the capital.

I've been thinking about switching it over to auto since it all seems to be pointless and you only seem to deal with the same handful of generic events, making it all just tedious now some 30 hours into the game. Yet I'm worried that it might maybe have some impact on the story or quests at some point, and I also don't know how it'd handle the 'someone wants an audience, go talk to them' events, which are about the only interesting part of it.