Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sweeper]

On one hand yes, I liked the timers. On the other, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I swear they're gonna go from being my most beloved dev to being more despised than Larian.
The timers are what make D&D difficult. If you can rest after every encounter and use your best abilities every time, what's the fucking point?

 

[The_Mask]

There are ways to work around that. MotB allowed you to rest as much as your heart desired... if you could keep your spirit tummy full.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Seems like they're intending the direct threat of on-map enemy armies to supplement Kingmaker's timers.

 

[Lawntoilet]

If you can rest after every encounter and use your best abilities every time, what's the fucking point?

I also liked the timers, but the early access areas have lots of restrictions on when/where you can rest.

 

[Sweeper]

I also liked the timers, but the early access areas have lots of restrictions on when/where you can rest.

I mean, I guess so long as you can't rest all willy nilly.
The timers added a sense of pressure though, they were a good thing.
Caving in to crybabies in order to increase sales is the first step on the road to decline.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I also liked the timers, but the early access areas have lots of restrictions on when/where you can rest.

I mean, I guess so long as you can't rest all willy nilly.
The timers added a sense of pressure though, they were a good thing.
Caving in to crybabies in order to increase sales is the first step on the road to decline.

I actually found the timers to be an artificial pain in the ass. Not because I didn't have enough time to do everything, but because I'd go around and do whatever, then have to make my way back to the capital, etc. It was that sort of scheduling busy work that made the timers more irritating than challenging. If I wanted to get bitched at for not paying attention to schedules, I'd listen to my wife.

 

[Delterius]

you have like over a hundred days you can just waste at some point

like, jesus are you just hunting+camping for a couple of days every time people get fatigued

 

[mediocrepoet]

you have like over a hundred days you can just waste at some point

like, jesus are you just hunting+camping for a couple of days every time people get fatigued

Like I say, it's not about the time to do things, it's about interrupting whatever I'm doing or waiting on it to get back to the capital or bald hill, etc. It's probably my sole complaint, or at least most memorable one, out of an otherwise great game. You could have 6,000 days to kill, but it'd still piss me off having to stop what I'm doing to get back to the capital area to do the RTWP version of a quick time event and then head back to wherever I wanted to be in the first place.

 

[The_Mask]

I believe those Bald Hill sequences act as hard gates. It is very important for a game designer to know where the player is at, in specific moments of the game. BG 2 had them too, for example, they were just less obvious.

 

[Sweeper]

I actually found the timers to be an artificial pain in the ass. Not because I didn't have enough time to do everything, but because I'd go around and do whatever, then have to make my way back to the capital, etc. It was that sort of scheduling busy work that made the timers more irritating than challenging. If I wanted to get bitched at for not paying attention to schedules, I'd listen to my wife.

I agree, the time limits should have been way more strict.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I believe those Bald Hill sequences act as hard gates. It is very important for a game designer to know where the player is at, in specific moments of the game. BG 2 had them too, for example, they were just less obvious.

Yeah, that's possibly a reasonable point. I think there are far better ways to introduce them if you're meaning challenges to test a party.

 

[Delterius]

the only time you HAVE to go back to the capital is when the bald hilltop curse starts hitting and even so you still have a week to go, provided you can contact the capital and tell them to move against the monsters that are pouring out of it

in every other instance, the game is waiting at your convenience and just letting you know there's gonna be content at the capital when you return

 

[The_Mask]

No. I meant, as a game designer it is very helpful to know exactly where the player is at a certain moment in space and time. Having a hot spot a click away from their hub, makes it considerably easier.

I'm not defending Owlcat here. If anything, it's obvious that it is their first game. Just saying the method is very convenient.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I feel like people are overstating the importance of time limit vs rest in Kingmaker.

While the time limit does limit rest somewhat, post the first 2 chapters where your lack of numerical advantage and short buff duration necessitating more rest, I truly feel under no pressure to reduce resting due to the moving time. After buffs last for 6+ minutes you can probably clear an area in 3 - 4 rests top which is more than enough time given by the game.

Edit: I usually finish an area in 2 rest tops. But I can see needing 3 or 4 I guess that would probably more than enough rest for a single area

 

[The_Mask]

The purpose of the time limit is to snap newbies out of their stupor of casually doing a full rest for +1 attribute heal. It also keeps early game harder if you pack less than 3 party members (meaning 2 or solo). Essentially, the idea is to not disrespect the game and have fun. And if you solo (or MC + Jaethal) after you get the Heart of Ira, you don't really need to rest anymore.

 

[Xamenos]

I feel like people are overstating the importance of time limit vs rest in Kingmaker.

While the time limit does limit rest somewhat, post the first 2 chapters where your lack of numerical advantage and short buff duration necessitating more rest, I truly feel under no pressure to reduce resting due to the moving time. After buffs last for 6+ minutes you can probably clear an area in 3 - 4 rests top which is more than enough time given by the game.

Edit: I usually finish an area in 2 rest tops. But I can see needing 3 or 4 I guess that would probably more than enough rest for a single area

Unless you are a complete and total imbecile you are never in any danger of outright failing a chapter due to the time limits. The true cost is kingdom management. The more time you spend clearing areas, the less time you have to upgrade your kingdom stats and get the good artisan gear.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I feel like people are overstating the importance of time limit vs rest in Kingmaker.

While the time limit does limit rest somewhat, post the first 2 chapters where your lack of numerical advantage and short buff duration necessitating more rest, I truly feel under no pressure to reduce resting due to the moving time. After buffs last for 6+ minutes you can probably clear an area in 3 - 4 rests top which is more than enough time given by the game.

Edit: I usually finish an area in 2 rest tops. But I can see needing 3 or 4 I guess that would probably more than enough rest for a single area

Unless you are a complete and total imbecile you are never in any danger of outright failing a chapter due to the time limits. The true cost is kingdom management. The more time you spend clearing areas, the less time you have to upgrade your kingdom stats and get the good artisan gear.

Yeah I do agree somewhat the more rest = less time in Kingdom Management, but at that point it's already in optimization and optional objective territory. The game is in noway require you to have heavily advanced kingdom to be finished and you can survive by doing just enough. Artisan is nice but once again their items are not really needed to finish the game normally. People are talking the rest limitation is on Swordflight level or something which it isn't.

The purpose of the time limit is to snap newbies out of their stupor of casually doing a full rest for +1 attribute heal. It also keeps early game harder if you pack less than 3 party members (meaning 2 or solo). Essentially, the idea is to not disrespect the game and have fun. And if you solo (or MC + Jaethal) after you get the Heart of Ira, you don't really need to rest anymore.

I guess yeah resting for any number of small damage is discouraged. And if you start playing solo/duo/trio whatever, turning off exp sharing off etc, it is already outside how the "normal game balance" is designed for (the game is designed with exp sharing on and full party) then all discussion is out of the window.

Within paramter of normal gameplay the rest is more than enough for you to dilly dally.

 

[Xamenos]

Yeah I do agree somewhat the more rest = less time in Kingdom Management, but at that point it's already in optimization and optional objective territory. The game is in noway require you to have heavily advanced kingdom to be finished and you can survive by doing just enough. Artisan is nice but once again their items are not really needed to finish the game normally. People are talking the rest limitation is on Swordflight level or something which it isn't.

Well, yes. That's what's great about KM's timers, they're almost wholly carrot. The stick is in people's heads. And this always amuses me when people complain about them.

 

[Desiderius]

If you try to "finish" the game without Artisan gear/upgrades the game will feel shitty because so much of the design is gated behind it. That's where all the "X weapon type isn't supported!" stuff is coming from.

At the end of the day the intended play pattern was to sit in the capital ranking stuff up until you accumulate enough quests in an area to justify an excursion. You do your exploring naturally as part of that process. Not open world not intended to be. Game goes a lot faster that way too. Gimped items + aimless wandering = game feels too long.

The rewards that other games give for exploration are given here for developing the Kingdom and that was by design at cross purposes with randomly wandering around. People who never figured that out Plus never figured out how to manage travel/fatigue are the ones complaining about timers. The change in Wrath will be making these sorts of trade-offs more explicit since people raised on faceroll aren't familiar with making them.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah I do agree somewhat the more rest = less time in Kingdom Management, but at that point it's already in optimization and optional objective territory. The game is in noway require you to have heavily advanced kingdom to be finished and you can survive by doing just enough. Artisan is nice but once again their items are not really needed to finish the game normally. People are talking the rest limitation is on Swordflight level or something which it isn't.

Well, yes. That's what's great about KM's timers, they're almost wholly carrot. The stick is in people's heads. And this always amuses me when people complain about them.

At least part of that is on the design. Given how lenient/upside oriented they were people complaining about them didn't so much suck at the game as not even understand what game they were playing.

Having just beaten my head against the Dungeon of Secrets (M&M IX) last night I can sympathize.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Infinitron Citation provided.

The Timers in first game were fine. I just thought it was bullshit that some quests doesn't have timers so you don't know if you can do mainquest and leave side before last part of chapter or it's better to do side stuff first. IIRC i lost one or two quests by this. They just need to make more clear that some quest are locked to chapter.

Also i'm still salty that i lost a good two hours trying enter varnhold but i couldn't because i had to wait a certain event (a letter) but no info when would happen..

 

[Tyrr]

I like the way Persona games do it.
Free time = reward for being good in combat/dungeon running. You feel rewarded for not having to rest all the time and doing stuff in an optimal manner. Time is a valuable resource.

 

[Nm6k]

I thought that is game's version of the timer would be the demon army's that would come after your main base

 

[Lawntoilet]

I thought that is game's version of the timer would be the demon army's that would come after your main base

You do have to achieve a number of Crusade objectives every week to keep your Crusade stats from tanking. Obviously the game isn't complete enough to fully know what the consequences are yet for having good or bad Crusade stats, but it's reasonable to assume that good stats will give you better outcomes.

 

[Desiderius]

Has direct effect on morale of combat troops similar to HoMM (extra atk for high fleeing for low).