Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Desiderius]

what if your character specializes in a certain weapon that doesnt have cool artifacts for it?

Don’t

Spoiler

De-emphasizing weapon specialization makes proficiencies actually matter. This is incline.

 

[Desiderius]

pathfinder system sure as hell has a LOT of options

Not as many as it looks.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

By people who can't understand that +2 to damage is a worthless feat.

Some people RP instead of min/maxing.

 

[Delterius]

play a casterino

Meleerino or bust.

play that kinetiwat thing that makes its own sword then

 

[Dodo1610]

I am not sure how this is even an issue most games have a system running in the background that ensures that you get the loot your characters actually need. The same way your DM would unless he hates you.

 

[NJClaw]

By people who can't understand that +2 to damage is a worthless feat.

Some people RP instead of min/maxing.

How the fuck do you roleplay a +2 to damage? Or do you roleplay your feats' names? "Woo hoo, I have WEAPON SPECIALIZATION, now I am a weapon specialist!"

 

[Ghulgothas]

Meleerino or bust.

Gisherino is the only way to go.

 

[Delterius]

By people who can't understand that +2 to damage is a worthless feat.

Some people RP instead of min/maxing.

How the fuck do you roleplay a +2 to damage? Or do you roleplay your feats' names? "Woo hoo, I have WEAPON SPECIALIZATION, now I am a weapon specialist!"

8 wisdom

 

[Heroic Liberator]

play a casterino

Meleerino or bust.

play that kinetiwat thing that makes its own sword then

No.

 

[Shadenuat]

its fake news you cant romance as lich. here, I finally got my waifu.

Why are you playing russian version? I imagine that scrolling through class names and feats is a nightmare: маг, волшебник, колдун, заклинатель, чародей, волхв, жрец... Пиздец.

I have blindsense when it comes to d20 at this point

I wanted to compare writing to english PKM

 

[Desiderius]

I am not sure how this is even an issue most games have a system running in the background that ensures that you get the loot your characters actually need. The same way your DM would unless he hates you.

People who make poor decisions actually need bad loot so they can improve.

Improving is fun. That said, there's loot for everyone, even retards.

 

[Desiderius]

By people who can't understand that +2 to damage is a worthless feat.

Some people RP instead of min/maxing.

How the fuck do you roleplay a +2 to damage? Or do you roleplay your feats' names? "Woo hoo, I have WEAPON SPECIALIZATION, now I am a weapon specialist!"

Troll is trolling. Well.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Whats the best image host these days?

postimages.org/

no bullshit image hosting, also from clipboard or url. imgur is gay as fuck and slow

 

[Xamenos]

most games have a system running in the background that ensures that you get the loot your characters actually need.

Name five.

Hard mode: No Diablo clones or MMOs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

most games have a system running in the background that ensures that you get the loot your characters actually need.

Name five.

Hard mode: No Diablo clones or MMOs.

NWN supposedly does, but I've never seen any evidence of such.

 

[Xamenos]

NWN supposedly does, but I've never seen any evidence of such.

Even if we grant him this, a single twenty-year old game (or even a series if NWN2 does the same thing) is very, very far from "most games".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

NWN supposedly does, but I've never seen any evidence of such.

Even if we grant him this, a single twenty-year old game (or even a series if NWN2 does the same thing) is very, very far from "most games".

DDO gets around it by condensing the weapon types for specialization into five categories(thrown, ranged, bludgeoning, piercing or slashing)
It does a decent enough job without having to fudge the loot tables.

 

[Parabalus]

By people who can't understand that +2 to damage is a worthless feat.

Some people RP instead of min/maxing.

How the fuck do you roleplay a +2 to damage? Or do you roleplay your feats' names? "Woo hoo, I have WEAPON SPECIALIZATION, now I am a weapon specialist!"

Issue is that weapon focus is a pre-req for other interesting feats, and if you take that no reason not to spec.

 

[mediocrepoet]

NWN supposedly does, but I've never seen any evidence of such.

Even if we grant him this, a single twenty-year old game (or even a series if NWN2 does the same thing) is very, very far from "most games".

DDO gets around it by condensing the weapon types for specialization into five categories(thrown, ranged, bludgeoning, piercing or slashing)
It does a decent enough job without having to fudge the loot tables.

BG and IWD did something similar too. I actually think a decent work around would be to group similar weapons into basically the fighter weapon groups in Pathfinder. It'd resolve most itemization issues when you're playing a weapon focused character that pretty much has to specialize like fighter, sword saint, or any class that takes a deity's preferred weapon.

 

[Shadenuat]

Man those weapons that can drop from map encounters do look cool... but what if your character specializes in a certain weapon that doesnt have cool artifacts for it? How do you handle it on a blind playthrough? Because this pathfinder system sure as hell has a LOT of options

So far there aren't weapons which do not have cool artifacts for it. For example traders alone in chapter 3: old trader guy (weapons armor stuff) smith (weapons some armor) exotic weapons trader and unique Mythic trader (for me it's necromancy items) and there are some returning traders and your companion and traders in locations (depends on c&c at least one). Finally there is now magic weapon, magic weapon greater, align weapon (good evil etc) spell, and so on.

The problem of weapon spec itself however does exist, you get all the toys but many companions are set in what they're supposed to be using, and feats of course. You may want to throw Arushalay something else but long bow, or you can pick mythic feat and make her longbow x4 crit.

For some customisation, early party is recommended: Seelah & Wenduag for example start as hybrid viable and can become anything you want. If you are yourself a fighter that's 3 custom characters to try out the weapons through the game.

The good part, of course, has its own flaw: most of the items are just mindless "on hit this happens" instruments. There are of course cool artifacts and stuff, but this sort of "everyone is taken care of" approach with hundreds of magic items takes all romantic part of magical items out completely. They have no cool descriptions, story, placement (what is 2 handed orc axe doing behind some succubus boss in some microlocation?) and that just leaves you with routine checkups on everything to see what's the most effective buy at the moment.

Remember when I said that coolest weapon in PKM was acid two-handed axe, because of how and when you find it? It's not that there aren't any cool weapons to find now, but for every one there exists dozens of mechanical artifacts made to fill the gaps in game's bloated weapon type system, and so you just don't feel that anything is very special or any particular sense of discovery or accomplishment.

imagine this on Hard

Hard seems around +8 AC compared to Core Rules. Normal is /2 of Hard. Most enemies on Chapter 3 on Hard is ~40 AC, although there are funny exceptions like barbarian chargers.
Highest monster difficulty increases it to 50. So for example, Normal or Normal+ insect demon with scorpion tail in sun lady location will have 25-27 AC on Normal, 40 on Hard, and 50 with enemy strength: max slider.

I am not sure why even have this "strongest strong option", because due to universal 25+ SR on all enemies and, often, saving throws in 20+, it would just turn into touch attacks or winning initiative, or whatever. I guess it's there for the lulz of the author.

ATM with Arushalae, I'm at about +35-40 AB when fully set up. Also, compared to PKM's Unfair, there is not that much increase in damage itself. You don't get crit for hundreds of damage. Instead, enemies now seem to have more powerful builds and abilities, or more attacks. There should also be more monsters, but I don't know if it works. So, on average, WOTR is more "fair" while being very demanding to stacking all your modifiers.

But this is the problem with these sort of difficulty modes. Even on "standard" hardest difficulty, your choices are but a fraction of what you should be able to do in this system - mostly non-SR debuffs/cc, summons, and stacking modifiers. Beating enemy AC while having whole party of characters is easy, but beating enemy saves/SR/immunities and utilising any sort of tricky magic requires a lot more trouble than it's really worth: you can one-shot some dumb idiots or bears even with Nenio, but for the most part, there is no reason to change The Winning Formula of prebuffing and rushing.

Well, maybe on higher levels your spells will begin outgrow enemy SR which seems to be consistent, and you'll begin to stack more shit or whatever, and I haven't tried a specialized main character build yet (and I also think stacking everything for 1 school/spell is not how vancian idea is supposed to work, idea is to choose different spells for different challenges). Instead my shamanlich just bonks enemies with +ab per dead enemy staff with same effectiviness as fullbab Regill.

 

[Desiderius]

This Demon?

Spoiler

Good casters will be Penetrating that SR and beating those Saves by midgame. Tools are there. You just haven't found them yet.

On the front end it’s slower to get there than attacking with weapons, but that’s the nature of casters. Don’t forget that other characters can impede those Saves just as well as they can lower that AC. Way more use of reroll mechanics too.

 

[Desiderius]

Issue is that weapon focus is a pre-req for other interesting feats, and if you take that no reason not to spec.

Weapon Focus is only +1, and people rely too much on Shatter Defenses. Hard to say whether Focus -> Fencing/Slashing Grace is better than Mythic Finesse but Rogues don't need it and Deft Strike is there on the way to Shatter Confidence, which should be sneaky good in Wrath.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/swordlord/

Main reason to specialize is Improved Crit, but there are other ways to get that. The +2 from Weapon Specialization is underrated since always on and multiplies, but still not worth wasting Martial Proficiency, whose main value is flexibilty.

If you really want to Specialize go Exotic on a character without Martial.

 

[Shadenuat]

Good casters will be Penetrating that SR and beating those Saves by midgame

Why are you killing that and everything with weapons then?

Magic Missile with that dagger that +2 to force damage ended up being the highest spell damage I have

Does it work for you? Because I seen missile roll 2 damage with it, meaning it doesn't. Or maybe it's some addition after rolls, idk.

The other item which nobody can even equip is "relic" rod crafted from event (supposed to turn any energy damage into unholy).

 

[Riddler]

most games have a system running in the background that ensures that you get the loot your characters actually need.

Name five.

Hard mode: No Diablo clones or MMOs.

NWN supposedly does, but I've never seen any evidence of such.

Supposedly? It's extremely obvious if you play the original campaign and rogueknight333 uses it occasionally in swordflight.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's extremely obvious if you play the original campaign

there is no evidence of anyone doing such