Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shinros]

Is the Angel any good? Narratively I mean.

Angel is very vanilla narrative wise as you expect but it has cool characters, plus you have two ways to RP it which is good. You can be either deus vult or be more merciful. Gameplay wise it's great because it can work with almost any build and class.

For example, lets say you're a wizard? At a certain mythic level you can upgrade angel buff which converts all your damage spells to holy damage. You can upgrade your halo to debuff surrounding spell resistance. The upgrade has a great second part to it but I can't exactly remember what it does.

 

[Salvo]

Is the Angel any good? Narratively I mean.

I believe Angel actually is the guy that gets most shit done other than Aeon. For example Angel is the only one that can

Spoiler

permanently kill Baphomet in his own realm, something only Nocticula was able to do. Obviously, this scares the shit out of all the demons, Succ included.

 

[Xamenos]

I believe Angel actually is the guy that gets most shit done other than Aeon. For example Angel is the only one that can

Spoiler

permanently kill Baphomet in his own realm, something only Nocticula was able to do. Obviously, this scares the shit out of all the demons, Succ included.

Is this yet more datamined dialogue someone supposedly machine-translated from Russian on 4chan?

 

[Lord of Riva]

Well, I know that this another pointless comment, but anyway.

Time limits are gameplay. They press the player to save time, to rest less and to manage resources better. Corruption (at least as it is now in beta) is too weak comparing to hard 90 days limit in Chapter 1 or to imminent Bald Hilltop events in other chapters. Surely, to experience this part of gameplay in full the Kingdom Management should be enabled at least on easy.

If someone does not understand that it is not the problem of the game design.

Two things to that: Time-limits may be resources but it is just one of many, there simply is no reason to have such a focus on time management and there is no objective truth to your statement. In short you like time limits, which is fine, but it is clearly not mandatory not to have a good game nor a hard game.

Also game-design isn't a mythical unicorn that can't be wrong I have seen some shitty games in my life you certainly have too, I would think so claiming that it is always the user, instead of the game-design who has "a Problem" is pretty retarded.

The time limits in KM both lacked transparency and due to the game being an absolute bugfest (EDIT: early on, mind you) were more of a pointless hindrance than an interesting resource to manage. Having C&C due to time-limits like someone here described in chapter 1 is obviously the better solution but even then, there is no inherent reason to have time-limits at all and games can be pretty hard and challenging without them.

 

[Desiderius]

If you dick around Demons will own your shit.

Life itself has a timer. Use it or lose it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere

Alpha had a nice system. People who paid into the Crusade Kickstarter wanted regular reports of your progress. If you didn't produce any they'd bail, if you did they'd kick in some more and morale would improve.

They shouldn't have abandoned it for the Beta.

 

[Testownia]

Is the Angel any good? Narratively I mean.

Angel is very vanilla narrative wise as you expect but it has cool characters, plus you have two ways to RP it which is good. You can be either deus vult or be more merciful. Gameplay wise it's great because it can work with almost any build and class.

For example, lets say you're a wizard? At a certain mythic level you can upgrade angel buff which converts all your damage spells to holy damage. You can upgrade your halo to debuff surrounding spell resistance. The upgrade has a great second part to it but I can't exactly remember what it does.

A dev on Discord claimed that every Path will have two such routes. So far the confirmed/datamined ones are:
- Angel of Mercy/Angel of Retribution (that's how said dev called it),
- Gold Dragon/Tarnished Gold Dragon,
- Swarm-That-Walks that is fully monstrous/retains some of its humanity,

I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

 

[Testownia]

Spoiler

trickster can fucking destroy camelia's life

Care to elaborate?

Spoiler

The lie about her being haunted by a spirit? You make it a reality, and make it really haunt her. The lie about her needing to perform rituals? Also come true. And, to say it mildly, it freaks her out.

Generally, in many ways, the Aeon and Trickster paths are surprisingly similar. Both bend and warp reality according to their whims.

I was bored and went looking for the source of your "leaks". And look what I found:

Spoiler

View attachment 18545

Nah, someone actually posted a data-mined conversation with a key. Basically, it's a conversation between an Aeon and someone else (can't remember the name) where he makes decrees concerning Dresen.

Nah, someone actually posted a data-mined conversation with a key.

pics or gtfo

Go dig through the archives yourself. I have better things to do. It's also someone's machine translation from Russian, so good luck.

I haven't been in this cesspool for a year which means i can't give ratings, but i would just like to let you know that you're retarded.

"The Cunny Commander" - another fucking coomer.

 

[Desiderius]

I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

Pimp/ho

 

[Testownia]

I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

Pimp/ho

Ha ha... but seriously, still have no idea how you can introduce different routes to such a random, nonsensical Path. Maybe they'll finally introduce some punishment if you try to be fully Chaotic Good? After all, not a single one of the Elders is.

By the way, Desiderius, your thought on making Harrim a Sacred Fist in Kingmaker?

 

[Salvo]

I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

Pimp/ho

Ha ha... but seriously, still have no idea how you can introduce different routes to such a random, nonsensical Path. Maybe they'll finally introduce some punishment if you try to be fully Chaotic Good? After all, not a single one of the Elders is.

Fey/Shyka path vs your own thing Path

 

[Testownia]

I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

Pimp/ho

Ha ha... but seriously, still have no idea how you can introduce different routes to such a random, nonsensical Path. Maybe they'll finally introduce some punishment if you try to be fully Chaotic Good? After all, not a single one of the Elders is.

Fey/Shyka path vs your own thing Path

The problem is that all the choices you make are so "lol random" that making proper routes out of them seems impossible, whilst only making a difference at the ultimate choice is hardly what I'd call a "route", especially when compared to the Angel Path, where the two approaches are different from the get-go.

Some of the others are no-brainers:
- Demon - Full Evil Psychopath vs. Fight Fire with Fire
- Lich - Full Evil Overlord vs "Mortal" Lawful Neutral Lich

Also - any ideas on what are the two different Azata routes?

 

[CaesarCzech]

Well, I know that this another pointless comment, but anyway.

Time limits are gameplay. They press the player to save time, to rest less and to manage resources better. Corruption (at least as it is now in beta) is too weak comparing to hard 90 days limit in Chapter 1 or to imminent Bald Hilltop events in other chapters. Surely, to experience this part of gameplay in full the Kingdom Management should be enabled at least on easy.

If someone does not understand that it is not the problem of the game design.

Two things to that: Time-limits may be resources but it is just one of many, there simply is no reason to have such a focus on time management and there is no objective truth to your statement. In short you like time limits, which is fine, but it is clearly not mandatory not to have a good game nor a hard game.

Also game-design isn't a mythical unicorn that can't be wrong I have seen some shitty games in my life you certainly have too, I would think so claiming that it is always the user, instead of the game-design who has "a Problem" is pretty retarded.

The time limits in KM both lacked transparency and due to the game being an absolute bugfest were more of a pointless hindrance than an interesting resource to manage. Having C&C due to time-limits like someone here described in chapter 1 is obviously the better solution but even then, there is no inherent reason to have time-limits at all and games can be pretty hard and challenging without them.

The problem with time limits in KM was they were absolute, Like if im Baron there is no reason i cant hire couple of mercenaries for trollhunting which will extend time limit I still have to deal with it myself but i get more time because it slows them down, allow me to trade resources for time or allow my decisions to influence the time, like if managed to get Trolls as vassals Barbarian invasion should have higher time limit because dont tell me that trolls wont slow them down for while. The problem was that time limit didnt feel natural and wasnt integrated seamlessly.

 

[CaesarCzech]

If you dick around Demons will own your shit.

Life itself has a timer. Use it or lose it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere

Alpha had a nice system. People who paid into the Crusade Kickstarter wanted regular reports of your progress. If you didn't produce any they'd bail, if you did they'd kick in some more and morale would improve.

They shouldn't have abandoned it for the Beta.

The problem was if you were doing TOO WELL you run out of enemies to kill.

Is the Angel any good? Narratively I mean.

Angel is very vanilla narrative wise as you expect but it has cool characters, plus you have two ways to RP it which is good. You can be either deus vult or be more merciful. Gameplay wise it's great because it can work with almost any build and class.

For example, lets say you're a wizard? At a certain mythic level you can upgrade angel buff which converts all your damage spells to holy damage. You can upgrade your halo to debuff surrounding spell resistance. The upgrade has a great second part to it but I can't exactly remember what it does.

A dev on Discord claimed that every Path will have two such routes. So far the confirmed/datamined ones are:
- Angel of Mercy/Angel of Retribution (that's how said dev called it),
- Gold Dragon/Tarnished Gold Dragon,
- Swarm-That-Walks that is fully monstrous/retains some of its humanity,



I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.

Tricker could be Joker/Loki. chaos being the goal and chaos being the means, ie Doing shit for lulz, or doing utterly insane batshit crazy things to reach your goal and making it work because you are just that crazy to make it work.

 

[Desiderius]

Maybe they'll finally introduce some punishment if you try to be fully Chaotic Good?

Lol, bring it Foucault. Second Law already has you by the short hairs.

By the way, Desiderius, your thought on making Harrim a Sacred Fist in Kingmaker?

Great thematically but class was lackluster. Doesn’t fit well at all with starting level and stats.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dodo1610]

Another orchestra upload

Thanks to your support during the Kickstarter campaign, we were able to record a number of tracks for Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous OST live with Baltic Symphony Orchestra. We hope you will love the way it sounds as much as we do! It is a full version of the Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Mythic Power theme (composed by Mikhail Kotov) performed by the Baltic Symphony Orchestra. Don't forget to check out the first Developer Diary with the story of the recording process: https://youtu.be/3PoBpJdtG44

 

[Delterius]

Ha ha... but seriously, still have no idea how you can introduce different routes to such a random, nonsensical Path.

It could be degrees of nonsense. Trickster who loses themselves in the joke =/= Trickster who retains some level of rationale and self interests behind their tricksting. Its good enough that you keep people guessing what you're thinking. But it could also be there's no master plan behind the curtain. No different from swarm retaining some humanity, really.

 

[Desiderius]

Killing too many enemies is bad = trivially easy problem to fix.

Loki is Joker. Maggots/Fungi make nutrients for new life.

 

[Lord of Riva]

If you dick around Demons will own your shit.

Life itself has a timer. Use it or lose it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere

Alpha had a nice system. People who paid into the Crusade Kickstarter wanted regular reports of your progress. If you didn't produce any they'd bail, if you did they'd kick in some more and morale would improve.

They shouldn't have abandoned it for the Beta.

The problem with that was that had to limit yourself to two battles per time interval lest you loose noble support. This was damning if you were efficient enough to clear the map before the story events triggered as you had no battles left to win, you lost moral. My guess is it would have lead to a game over.

So not only were people punished for being shit, but also for being too fast. There was a reason why they get rid of it.

EDIT: Yes I am serious, I ended on I believe 20 Noble Moral in Alpha due to this shit, could have lost the campaign because of this not thought through system.

 

[Desiderius]

a) this was easily managed playerside

b) its also trivial to tweak the design to avoid the issue altogether

Trashing the whole thing has massive downsides.

 

[Lord of Riva]

a) this was easily managed playerside

b) its also trivial to tweak the design to avoid the issue altogether

Trashing the whole thing has massive downsides.

Sure you could manage this on the player side, you just had to force yourself to skip two weeks after every two battles, what a great design it's a reverse time-limit and not all kinds of ass.

The system was a mess and look I am not suggesting that the crusade mechanics should not be challenging (I would however prefer a strengthening of the enemies over time instead of some arbitrary timeframe).
It seems to be evident that it was not "easy" to avoid the issue altogether, my guess is that it both needs to be a limiting factor while not being ass for those who are not too stupid to use archers.

 

[Desiderius]

I didn't have that experience until maybe late chapter 3 but by then it didn't matter. Can you really not think of any number of ways to fine tune things so that doesn't matter? Would we really abandon a Kickstarter for doing too much ahead of schedule?

There is nothing arbitrary about neglected threats becoming stronger over time. It is merely real.

Fixing the original problem is easy. They've left all sorts of trivially easy things undone for whatever reason. I mean it would be trivially easy to clean my office as well.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I didn't have that experience until maybe late chapter 3 but by then it didn't matter. Can you really not think of any number of ways to fine tune things so that doesn't matter? Would we really abandon a Kickstarter for doing too much ahead of schedule?

Sure you could just have counted upwards and set a threshoold instead of a two battle limit per week, which is what i suggested in their survey btw. But this system was actually not really challenging at all, unless you look at those who have never played a HoMaM game or are retarded.

There is nothing arbitrary about neglected threats becoming stronger over time. It is merely real.

Which is what I would prefer, the attacking army should scale until its dangerous enough to topple yours, give the players one automatic defence as a warning and then let the city burn.

Fixing the original problem is easy. They've left all sorts of trivially easy things undone for whatever reason. I mean it would be trivially easy to clean my office as well.

Well they work quite fast, but there are still loads of issues in the game, espcecially in the UI department i hope they learned their lesson from KM. And I would say that the whole crusade mechanics is pretty barebones anyways which is most likely the factor why some people find it too hard (... in discord...) and others way to easy because it is.

 

[LannTheStupid]

So there are two kinds of players: those who can deduce the game mechanics by trial and error and those who want everything to be presented in the MS Office-like UI ("Tell me what you want to do"). The former adapt to new mechanics, the latter complain about bugs, most of them happen to be in the UI.

Those two approaches are not compatible, so no discussion between those two makes sense.

 

[Desiderius]

The approaches aren't but the players are. Just a matter of converting the latter to the former (with tutorial help). Those who still want the latter can play Candy Crush.

 

[Xamenos]

Some people are beyond hope. Some people can, and have, been helped to enjoy the game. It is usually not hard to tell them apart after a while.