Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LannTheStupid]

I just wish that the game had a better AI. Ideally, mobs would have distinct behaviors based on his intelligence.

Are you sure you have this setting enabled?

Spoiler

I mean - it will not do wonders (may be it will do nothing), but it is the first check for anyone who complains about the A.I. in Wrath.

 

[Desiderius]

I may be mistaken but I think they just added pass through. Seelah and Camellia standing on top of one another all through tutorial.

 

[Desiderius]

Playing it straight (six man experience sharing from the get go) this time on Core from the beginning.

I did give Cam a Leopard (via Hunter) to prevent getting outnumbered and he’s pretty tanky with Mage Armor potion but my God didn’t hit level three until Defender’s Heart. It’s like a different game.

MC Seeker (Oracle Archetype) with Waves Mystery for Snowball, Frigid Touch, Ice Storm, Icy Prison, etc... goes great with Divine Nuker Evocation Mythic Focus. Freezing Spells adds Slow to any Cold Spell so I’ll have Holy or Cold Damage with Pranked Curse for Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Confusion, and Insanity.

Should be fun.

 

[jerfdr]

Has anyone here tried building an Oracle? What is the best Mystery (and the best Curse) if I want a battlefield controlling/damage dealing backline caster?

Just trying to figure that out myself right now. They’re all so bad compared to Battle tho.

Life gives Channeling and Nature a Pet. Stone has a thing that gets you to Greater Trip without prereqs but everything else seems pretty meh.

I think you want Seeker for the three Caster Feats so you can pick up Mythic Spell Focus and Spell Pen.

There is also Ancient Lorekeeper on the list (from here). Apparently it's not implemented yet in the beta, but will be in the game upon release? Looks interesting.

Could you explain what is the advantage of Seeker compared to, say, Enlightened Philosopher, in more detail? It seems that for the caster feats which Seeker provides, it's possible to get them just as regular feats, is it not? And Enlightened Philosopher provides bonuses to Int and gives more skill points, which is nice.

 

[TigerKnee]

Has anyone here tried building an Oracle? What is the best Mystery (and the best Curse) if I want a battlefield controlling/damage dealing backline caster?

I pretty much agree with Des on the current Oracle implementation - a lot of trash with some usable ones due to questionable implementation (Bones doesn't even get its mystery that allows it to summon a Skeleton/Zombie, which defined it in P&P)

An Oracle MC will lean very heavily on merging his Angel mythic spellbook - I favor Nature as a mystery just because it has the strongest early game due to the pet mystery.

 

[jerfdr]

I pretty much agree with Des on the current Oracle implementation - a lot of trash with some usable ones due to questionable implementation (Bones doesn't even get its mystery that allows it to summon a Skeleton/Zombie, which defined it in P&P)

An Oracle MC will lean very heavily on merging his Angel mythic spellbook - I favor Nature as a mystery just because it has the strongest early game due to the pet mystery.

Yup, definitely considering an Oracle only when going the Angel path and merging spellbooks. I'm leaning Waves or Nature too. But isn't Nature weak late game? I've seen opinions that animal companions are worse in WotR compared to Kingmaker even despite the fact that they have been buffed up (with the new development options, armor, etc) and get killed pretty fast by mid game. Or those people just don't know how to use them well?

 

[jerfdr]

Divine Nuker Evocation Mythic Focus

What's this focus precisely, by the way?

 

[Tacgnol]

Has anyone here tried building an Oracle? What is the best Mystery (and the best Curse) if I want a battlefield controlling/damage dealing backline caster?

I pretty much agree with Des on the current Oracle implementation - a lot of trash with some usable ones due to questionable implementation (Bones doesn't even get its mystery that allows it to summon a Skeleton/Zombie, which defined it in P&P)

An Oracle MC will lean very heavily on merging his Angel mythic spellbook - I favor Nature as a mystery just because it has the strongest early game due to the pet mystery.

They've not implemented Time either. Time is one of the best base mysteries, it gets access to some neat wizard spells (including Time Stop) and gets some neato revelations like all purpose rerolls.

 

[Xamenos]

They've not implemented Time either. Time is one of the best base mysteries, it gets access to some neat wizard spells (including Time Stop) and gets some neato revelations like all purpose rerolls.

Too bad they haven't implemented Time Stop either. I really miss it.

 

[Tacgnol]

They've not implemented Time either. Time is one of the best base mysteries, it gets access to some neat wizard spells (including Time Stop) and gets some neato revelations like all purpose rerolls.

Too bad they haven't implemented Time Stop either. I really miss it.

Yep, been one of the strongest spells in Pathfinder and every edition of D&D. Really an iconic of the high level arcane caster.

I've no idea why Owlcat didn't implement it. I'm guessing they struggled from a rules/engine perspective.

 

[Xamenos]

Yep, been one of the strongest spells in Pathfinder and every edition of D&D. Really an iconic of the high level arcane caster.

I've no idea why Owlcat didn't implement it. I'm guessing they struggled from a rules/engine perspective.

Spaghetti code probably exploded when they tried. Nothing else would make sense.

 

[ChildInTime]

How do you kill that?

Spoiler

 

[Polanski]

I just wish that the game had a better AI. Ideally, mobs would have distinct behaviors based on his intelligence.

• MINDLESS -> This creatures just walk and try to hit PC's. If you cast 666 maximized/empowered Sirrocos in a area, they just walk in that area. Eg - Zombies/Skeletons
• BESTIAL -> Avoid "death zones", but still is engaged on "kill, kill, kill", most beasts with bellow 3 INT like Dire wolves are in that category.
• NORMAL -> Try to flank, fight in cover, prioritize divine and arcane casters eg -> bandits, and creatures with human like intelligence like ghouls(13 INT)
• GENIUS -> Obviously, no computer can act as a genius mastermind. But at least try. The computer can have a lot of "ifs" to counter spell, and deal with the most commonly used PC tactics. Eg - A Lich with 22 INT

For example, imagine that the PC is casting Sirroco, a mindless creature will act like every mob already act. A bestial creature will be easily hit but if make the save, try to escape and "flank". a "normal" creature would see that a spell is being cast and try to interrupt with a crossbow, throwing a spear, or etc. A lich would for example, cast dimensional door and move him out or his minions directly into the caster. In fact, he would have probably already have casted fire resist and freedom of movement on his most important minions. Since PC's can pre buff, highly intelligent casters should start the encounters with pre buffs too.

It would be interesting to make a simple Utility AI (or behavior trees) for selecting strategies and have that actually include current INT as a factor. So they only select advanced actions if they have high int and if the intelligence score changes during the fight their behavior would change accordingly

I could make you such a system easily, if you’re listening Owlcat just pm.

 

[Riddler]

I was a teacher. I saw it every day. It was my job.

My experience has been different. Some retards are indeed willing to improve themselves and are capable of making slow progress. But some (most?) are perfectly happy to stay a retard forever and will stubbornly refuse to make the effort or accept help.

It's a matter of motivation more so than capability.

Humans are learning machines. If they’re not learning what you’re teaching the problem’s on your end. Usually vanity (see Soyer) sometimes more nefarious (Gamergate suits/wokels).

Make your game for people like yourselves. You’ll make a better game because you care more about it and people will enjoy being among friends.

You said you were a teacher. How do you motivate someone who is unwilling to help himself? I am genuinely curious. Maybe over pms, if you want to share and not derail the thread?

Pain.

 

[TigerKnee]

Could you explain what is the advantage of Seeker compared to, say, Enlightened Philosopher, in more detail? It seems that for the caster feats which Seeker provides, it's possible to get them just as regular feats, is it not?

You can see the class archetype comparisons by clicking details on the chargen screen, which shows you what you lose and what you gain. You can certainly pick the feats normally but the point of Seeker is that it trades out some Revelations for additional caster related feats instead - that's in addition to the normal ones you get leveling up. This is usually a good trade because there's way more Revelation gains than actual useful ones but this could change once Owlcat finally bugfixes Second Mystery.

And Enlightened Philosopher provides bonuses to Int and gives more skill points, which is nice.

Enlightened Philosopher is trying to add some skill monkey flavor to the class but I feel like you might as well use an actual INT class for that since Oracle doesn't really use INT otherwise.

Yup, definitely considering an Oracle only when going the Angel path and merging spellbooks. I'm leaning Waves or Nature too. But isn't Nature weak late game? I've seen opinions that animal companions are worse in WotR compared to Kingmaker even despite the fact that they have been buffed up (with the new development options, armor, etc) and get killed pretty fast by mid game. Or those people just don't know how to use them well?

There's some mechanics in WoTR that weakens Animal Companions but ultimately they're still an additional body to toss at the enemy, although certainly they're meant to be off-tanks rather than main ones, so hopefully no one is attempting to use them to solo entire waves.

Nature has a lot more to offer than just the Animal Companion, such as Revelations that allows you to use Cha instead of Dex for the purpose of determining AC and getting the Summon Nature Ally spells along with a save bonus to animals(IIRC).

 

[Desiderius]

Nature Mystery is dece. If you don’t want to give Lann or Cam a pet would probably be best choice to get through early game.

Anyone having trouble keeping their pets alive doesn’t understand how to stack buffs. At all. They should be your tankiest character. Only downside is pathing and pain of buffing them and looks like they may have punted on pass through and have added barding to cut down on at least one piece of buffing (Mage Armor).

 

[Desiderius]

Battle Mystery is INSANE. Definitely a reason to play the class in the first place if you’re doing anything other than Divine Nuking.

Seeker takes care of Trickery once you get the Ring which is pretty huge if you can’t stand Cam. Cam into Aru will probably be a common path but always nice to cover with the main. The three additional Caster Feats are probably the sweet spot to really get there on a dedicated caster since you want Point Blank/Precise for Rays. That leaves Focus/Greater and Spell Pen/Greater that you want by midgame.

Evocation to fire up Archon’s and Nukes (and Icy Prison!) but probably want to lead with Spell Pens since you’ve got Searing Touch which is no Save and SR completely shuts you down.

 

[Desiderius]

Battle and/or Life Purifier with Mythic Display/Channeling and just skipping Abundant Casting altogether would also be very viable. War Sight + Powerless Prophecy + Dazzling Display is a great set up with Angel Display and Archons debuffing enemy saves up to -6 to help Channeling land.

 

[Desiderius]

I was a teacher. I saw it every day. It was my job.

My experience has been different. Some retards are indeed willing to improve themselves and are capable of making slow progress. But some (most?) are perfectly happy to stay a retard forever and will stubbornly refuse to make the effort or accept help.

It's a matter of motivation more so than capability.

Humans are learning machines. If they’re not learning what you’re teaching the problem’s on your end. Usually vanity (see Soyer) sometimes more nefarious (Gamergate suits/wokels).

Make your game for people like yourselves. You’ll make a better game because you care more about it and people will enjoy being among friends.

You said you were a teacher. How do you motivate someone who is unwilling to help himself? I am genuinely curious. Maybe over pms, if you want to share and not derail the thread?

Pain.

Sucking people are already in Pain. Compared to the Cavalry of Woe you’re the Charge of the Light Brigade there Chester.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/55871/to-fight-aloud-is-very-brave-138

 

[LannTheStupid]

Sucking people are already in Pain.

Am I in "Pain" if I don't feel it?

 

[Desiderius]

Divine Nuker Evocation Mythic Focus

What's this focus precisely, by the way?

Mythic Spell Focus. Doubles other two, then later you can copy whole package for another school.

 

[Desiderius]

Sucking people are already in Pain.

Am I in "Pain" if I don't feel it?

In that case your anesthesia will overpower anything a mere teacher tries to provide. Have to work within the pre-existing incentive structure jujitsu style. First step is accurately seeing it as it is.

 

[Desiderius]

How do you kill that?

Spoiler

Something along these lines:

Spoiler

Except in Wrath you can prevent Nat 1s too. And we figured out I had missed an easy +9 so should have hit 100. 104 should be easy with the Mythic stuff stacked on, and that's not even looking at the debuff side with Hampering Hex and what not.

Or just something vs Touch with SR bypass probably.

 

[Sarkile]

Is there any positive to killing the Nabasu in the Market Square after Defender's Heart is attacked? I'm replaying on Core and was wondering if it's worth wasting the money on the Death Ward scrolls for that fight.

 

[Desiderius]

Can always come back later, right? Where is this Nabasu? Never seen it.