Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[santino27]

Fair enough! My Kingmaker MC doesn't use a monk splash (chaotic neuitral) or crane style , but makes up the difference with uncanny dodge (archaeologist 2) and mirror image (dd 4), so i definitely get that it's not always a necessity.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Desiderius]

Fair enough! My Kingmaker MC doesn't use a monk splash (chaotic neuitral) or crane style , but makes up the difference with uncanny dodge (archaeologist 2) and mirror image (dd 4), so i definitely get that it's not always a necessity.

Yeah, my only purpose is to counter the idea that it's somehow required to take those splashes and to get people to try out just playing the classes. I end up with some amalgamations, but each one is new and thus fun instead of rote and/or forced (even only in the imagination).

My favorite thing about that Amiri pic is the two crits from Linzi who I think was just Bard 14 at that point. Destructive Aura doing some work there.

 

[Cryomancer]

Are kineticists the strongest class on wotr like they are on kingmaker?

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Are kineticists the strongest class on wotr like they are on kingmaker?

Pretty sure Vivisectionist is stronger than Kineticist

 

[Desiderius]

Are kineticists the strongest class on wotr like they are on kingmaker?

They aren’t the strongest class in P:K. Persistent effects are just broken and Kin has some good ones and I think Whirlwind costs have been off.

Kin is solid early/midgame but nothing spectacular.

 

[Xamenos]

Are kineticists the strongest class on wotr like they are on kingmaker?

They aren’t the strongest class in P:K. Persistent effects are just broken and Kin has some good ones and I think Whirlwind costs have been off.

Kin is solid early/midgame but nothing spectacular.

They may be merely solid at early and midgame, but at lategame after they unlock the AoE blasts they become utterly busted. Provided you build them correctly, of course. They are very easy to use if you have, and I think this is the reason they are widely considered the strongest class. After all, you can just follow a guide on how to build a kineticist and then point, click and delete things. There are no guides to correct positioning, how to buff, or even what spells to prepare on a cleric.

 

[Yosharian]

The game system is complex enough and the game does a shit job explaining the system to the player.

Agreed. The rest I disagree. The only problem I had with the early game in P:K was the fact that the ingame manual was shit. I made a sorc but couldn't find a source for character creation info that I needed. Where's my spells known table? Where is the comprehensive feat list? My casts/day? The table showing how my casting stat modifed both (or one, or neither)? I ended up having to use the Pathfinder SRD, which sucked because I didn't have a second monitor to put it on. I had to read practically the first four fucking chapters before going back into the game.

This is just an example but I think it proves your point. Where's the entry on different monster types? On Special Qualities? On Summon Monster limits? And so on and so forth. It's a real failure especially considering they have a "manual" ingame... it just doesn't give me the information I need/want.

Absolutely a big problem, this an AI they really need to work on for WotR

 

[Cryomancer]

Persistent effects are just broken and Kin has some good ones and I think Whirlwind costs have been off.

Persistent effects aren't broken on kingmaker nor in any other game. What happens is that a lot of devs have the idea that mages should be only about "hur dur fireballs" and nerf most persistent spells/spell like abilities. What make this abilities """""broken""""" is the poor AI of the enemies.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Absolutely a big problem, this an AI they really need to work on for WotR

AI seems way better in the alpha than in KM.

 

[Desiderius]

Are kineticists the strongest class on wotr like they are on kingmaker?

They aren’t the strongest class in P:K. Persistent effects are just broken and Kin has some good ones and I think Whirlwind costs have been off.

Kin is solid early/midgame but nothing spectacular.

They may be merely solid at early and midgame, but at lategame after they unlock the AoE blasts they become utterly busted. Provided you build them correctly, of course. They are very easy to use if you have, and I think this is the reason they are widely considered the strongest class. After all, you can just follow a guide on how to build a kineticist and then point, click and delete things. There are no guides to correct positioning, how to buff, or even what spells to prepare on a cleric.

Cleric doesn’t get persistent effects. Sirocco Sorcs are same shit.

The problem is persistent AoE, not Kins. On anything other than persistent AoE the double Saves make Kins kind of annoying.

 

[Desiderius]

What make this abilities """""broken""""" is the poor AI of the enemies.

So in other words they’re broken, which means Kin isn’t strongest class since other classes can do it too.

Kin’s don’t get Weapon Bonuses, have no feats to boost their abilities (and a lot that should work don’t), you often have to beat Saves on Form and Infusion with limited ways to boost DCs, and Blasts are 3/4 with no iteratives.

On the other hand, rest is largely irrelevant and/or they can do big burst damage and you’ve got things like Celerity, Slick, the Water Shield, and Whirlwind which work well (Blade Form
does get iteratives as well).

 

[Cryomancer]

WoTR should add more cool spells. Black Tentacles/Greater black tentacles for eg( BTW on P&P Wild Hunt Archers casts that spell ) https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/wild-hunt/wild-hunt-archer/

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/black-tentacles/

"This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to swell into Gargantuan vines and tendrils that erupt from the ground, reaching for any structure or any creature of evil alignment, functioning like black tentacles except as noted. When you are determining the tendrils’ CMB, the tendrils use your caster level as their base attack bonus and have a +13 bonus due to their Strength. Any tendril that succeeds in grappling a foe deals 4d6+13 points of damage to the grappled creature. Additionally, the tendrils created by this spell can detect evil auras, as if they had spent 3 rounds observing all creatures and objects within the spell’s area using detect evil, and attack and impede the movement of only evil creatures, though they also attack any structures in their area. Each structure suffers a single attack each round; your caster level acts as the base attack bonus for these attacks, and the tendrils deal 4d6+13 points of damage on each successful attack. Creatures that lack evil auras are not attacked or impeded by this spell."

And incendiary cloud https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/incendiary-cloud/

 

[Yosharian]

I actually think there should be fewer spells. They should focus on picking a good suite of spells and making the game work with those spells.

By that I mean, the AI knows how to use them properly, and each spell that exists in the game is a viable pick instead of being straight up worse than other spells of the same level.

(Also, there should be enough spells that specialists of a school can pick a bonus spell at each level, like this seems obvious but hello Divination)

For example, they added Cloudkill, which is cool, but what's the point if the AI is not smart enough to not get cheesed by the spell? Congrats you added a spell that breaks the game. It's fun and all, but not a good way to spend resources to produce a truly great game.

 

[Cryomancer]

Sorc Casting cloudkill + sirroco + acid fog + kin casting deadly earth + cloud >

On P&P > Any intelligent foe will just retreat and wait until the effects dispel or teleport to behind the party or try to dispel, but only the dumbest constructs/undeads would walk to this death zone.

On Kingmaker > A Lich with 25+ int walk into the death zone and even on unfair fail in a single save and become stuck on this death zone.

On WoTR > ??

Alphas are saying that the AI is much better on WoTR, so OwlCat can add more cool persistent spells.

 

[Sharpedge]

What make this abilities """""broken""""" is the poor AI of the enemies.

So in other words they’re broken, which means Kin isn’t strongest class since other classes can do it too.

Kin’s don’t get Weapon Bonuses, have no feats to boost their abilities (and a lot that should work don’t), you often have to beat Saves on Form and Infusion with limited ways to boost DCs, and Blasts are 3/4 with no iteratives.

On the other hand, rest is largely irrelevant and/or they can do big burst damage and you’ve got things like Celerity, Slick, the Water Shield, and Whirlwind which work well (Blade Form
does get iteratives as well).

I agree, Kineticists aren't as broken as people make them out to be. Yes, they do a lot of damage eventually, but its pretty much all that they can do. A wizard, sorcerer, druid or cleric on the other hand has a ton of other utility, which they only get more of as they progress throughout the game. They may not do as much damage, but that damage is largely unnecessary and is more than made up for with all the buffs the other casters provide.

 

[Haplo]

What make this abilities """""broken""""" is the poor AI of the enemies.

So in other words they’re broken, which means Kin isn’t strongest class since other classes can do it too.

Kin’s don’t get Weapon Bonuses, have no feats to boost their abilities (and a lot that should work don’t), you often have to beat Saves on Form and Infusion with limited ways to boost DCs, and Blasts are 3/4 with no iteratives.

On the other hand, rest is largely irrelevant and/or they can do big burst damage and you’ve got things like Celerity, Slick, the Water Shield, and Whirlwind which work well (Blade Form
does get iteratives as well).

I agree, Kineticists aren't as broken as people make them out to be. Yes, they do a lot of damage eventually, but its pretty much all that they can do. A wizard, sorcerer, druid or cleric on the other hand has a ton of other utility, which they only get more of as they progress throughout the game. They may not do as much damage, but that damage is largely unnecessary and is more than made up for with all the buffs the other casters provide.

True. And an Arcane Trickster will clean house even faster then a Kin (while providing better party support). Only a limited number of times per rest but... how much do you need to, really?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

so they haven't improved the AI at all(read: actually implemented AI whatsoever) since the first game yet?

 

[Desiderius]

Jesus, Rus, several people have said it is improved.

Do you work for CNN?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

If it's not made by Larian it's shit

~rusty

 

[Pink Eye]

Jesus, Rus, several people have said it is improved.

Do you work for CNN?

Ha. Woke the roommates up from reading that. Good one.

 

[Salvo]

Jesus, Rus, several people have said it is improved.

Do you work for CNN?

Ha. Woke the roommates up from reading that. Good one.

Implying it was your laugh and not the constant "I LOVE MONKS" screaming to wake them

 

[Pink Eye]

Lol, you know me too well.

 

[Xamenos]

Cleric doesn’t get persistent effects. Sirocco Sorcs are same shit.

True, but sirocco sorcerers are not hard to build either. I specifically mentioned clerics because I consider them essential to a well-balanced party, rather like a bard or alchemist, and they are completely antithetical to the "optimize each character as if he's playing solo" school of thought that certain guides espoused.

What make this abilities """""broken""""" is the poor AI of the enemies.

Kin’s don’t get Weapon Bonuses,

Early game no one gets weapon bonuses. Mid-game it's problem, I agree. Late game hybrid blasts are good enough on their own, and there are items to boost the damage.

have no feats to boost their abilities (and a lot that should work don’t),

What abilities are you talking about? There are feats to boost Bowling infusion, and it's the only one that matters.

you often have to beat Saves on Form and Infusion with limited ways to boost DCs,

Wall, Deadly Earth and Cloud have no save. Bowling Infusion is a CMD check. Kineticists can essentially ignore an opponent's saves altogether after a while.

and Blasts are 3/4

Early game is not a big difference. Mid game it's a problem, I agree. Late game it's irrelevant, you never target AC anyway.

with no iteratives.

Does it matter that Sirocco gets no iteratives? Why should it matter that a kinetic blast doesn't either?

 

[Haplo]

Well, Blast accuracy isn't an issue if you pick an energy blast. Much easier to hit Touch Ac with 3/4 BAB then full AC with Full BAB.