Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Saravan]

I get mad at the DM and I immediately take out my folder that has 20 pictures of my character in different encounters and go through each one step by step explaining in detail why I got mad skills.

It's Russia, so the DM takes a bottle of vodka and breaks it on your head with full of his strength. (You can check Owlcat Games streams for some guys who are working there as designers).

Other people at the table shrug and continue to play.

Roll for fortitude versus knock down.

I roll a natural 1 and incoherently scream about the DM being shit and he would understand if he just looked at my pictures.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I roll a natural 1 and incoherently scream about the DM being shit and he would understand if he just looked at my pictures.

A player who plays Amiri reaches out to you, helps you to your feet and says: "Andrey was in traffic jam for 2 hours today, don't take it personally". He gives you a napkin to wipe out blood and advises to put the pictures back and continue to play. Or to go home if you are not well.

Meanwhile, the DM says that in Moscow they play DnD with dice, not with pictures. He is not particularly sorry for his outburst. Also, he has another glass bottle on the table, but this time it's beer.

Will you continue to play?

 

[Saravan]

I roll a natural 1 and incoherently scream about the DM being shit and he would understand if he just looked at my pictures.

A player who plays Amiri reaches out to you, helps you to your feet and says: "Andrey was in traffic jam for 2 hours today, don't take it personally". He gives you a napkin to wipe out blood and advises to put the pictures back and continue to play. Or to go home if you are not well.

Meanwhile, the DM says that in Moscow they play DnD with dice, not with pictures. He is not particularly sorry for his outburst. Also, he has another glass bottle on the table, but this time it's beer.

Will you continue to play?

I say it's okay I'm used to being violated by Russians after my last campaign set in Kingmaker.

 

[LannTheStupid]

OK, fair enough. Well played.

But I'd like to point out that even with their best intentions Owlcat Games could have tried to emulate a table-top experience that is enjoyable for their group (well, may be without breaking heads), but could be strange, alien, or even abhorrent for the Western players.

Also, people at Owlcat Games are very intelligent and experienced in games and game development - many of them are from Nival, after all. Imagine being invited into such a group, when some people - even on this forum! - cannot refer to D20 for details.

In conclusion: even in the best case scenarion "table-top emulation" in a CRPG can be vastly different from what one expects in his regular sessions. And I think that this "best case scenario" is impossible to pull off.

 

[The_Mask]

And as soon as it had reached that state, I bought the game. If we're lucky, Wrath will be perfectly fine on launch but if it isn't, I and everyone else with a modicum of sense left in their videogame addled brain will hold out for a bit.

I've invested some resources in this project, and even though I hope it's the perfect game on the 2nd of Sept, it is highly likely that it won't be. Simply because the people that have been beta testing right now, have only been beta testing half the game. Meaning there's another half that Owlcat has to do the work for, and... yeah... indie studio yada yada... you get the drift.

It'll be sad to see, but the debate will probably go just like it did with Kingmaker.

And maybe Porky will play this one too, on the hardest mode... to completion... only to spitefully say he spent 300h of his life on something he *absolutely* hates. :p

 

[LannTheStupid]

Simply because the people that have been beta testing right now, have only been beta testing half the game. Meaning there's another half that Owlcat has to do the work for, and... yeah... indie studio yada yada... you get the drift.

If they implement their more modular structure that they were writing about in updates on Kickstarter, then it might be possible to add new content to the game without adding new bugs. But this is one tremendous IF.

 

[Desiderius]

Ok, facepalm. Where are the four encounters? You finally came down to earth on the specifics. Defend them, or admit they're wrong. Stop defaming the best part of the game because you're too retarded to give up your cutting edge strategy of having four characters stand around picking their asses while your MC gets nat 20ed to death over 11 unnecessary rounds.

 

[Humbaba]

Thats not a wrong approach, but neither is giving them credit based on their past work.

Which was a buggy mess when it first released, hence my expecting to have to wait for a bit until the game's been polished.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Which was a buggy mess when it first released, hence my expecting to have to wait for a bit until the game's been polished.

I am of the firm belief that post-launch support is more important than smooth release. Despite all the possible ratings.

The former is the sign of the game that is there to stay. The latter might be the sign of a well polished cash grab for 2-3 years.

I'd say that the support of Kingmaker from Owlcat Games is one of the best.

 

[Mortmal]

Maybe the point is precisely that it should at least make a better attempt to be closer, you fucking mentally challenged prick?

How about no? And you will suffer and eventually die?

Have a look there for guidelines

Why? Because of a piece of (obviously) false advertising presented both by Owlcat Games and Larian?

The best approximation to a table-top experience is something that creates a virtual TT game over network. I think there is Tabletop Simulator in Steam or something. You cannot have any kind of table-top experience in a strictly single player game without any coop mode, and with fixed and quite sadistic DM. There is no one to complain to or persuade in such a game. You can either tweak the difficulty or drop it.

It's funny how many beer-and-pizza "gamers" took this bait.

You can still be much closer to it, like TOE did almost 20 years ago, or kotc , 3.0 system but thats not so different. But its my fault anyway when you go on rpgwatch and say BG3 and larian are maybe not completely perfect you soon hear autistic screeching and people jump at your throat . Here on the codex when you say owlcat games are maybe not perfect and can be improved, you hear same autistic screeching and people jumping at your throat.

OK, let's play a game. I guess some people here do not understand that Russian TT experience in the centre of Moscow can be very different from some NYC Queens or Milan.

You are in your Western table top group with your (presumably) friends. Your party just took the side quest for berries from Bokken and went to the cave. There are 4 of you, including obligatory Amiri. You are all of level 2 (I guess). Imagine it is before the nerf, so you encounter the spider swarms. Also, to take the berries you need to pass the skill check.

What do you tell to the DM who constructed such an encounter?

Think everyone will say its fine, then proceed to ghost him and never be available each time he offers to DM another session. One of the 4 people will probably write something on r/rpghorrorstories " Been raped by abusive russian Dm" or something like that.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Thats not a wrong approach, but neither is giving them credit based on their past work.

Giving a company credit for their past work is a poor way to spend your money. You aren't buying their reputation, you're buying a product. Buy a product if it's good. Don't buy it until it's good. Their past work is the best modern RPG and an all time great, but it was also extremely buggy and borderline unplayable to some on release. I played it late so I've only heard that, but it's still pretty goddamn buggy now. Waiting for stability is just a sound decision if you don't think of yourself as a fan but as a consumer.

I am a fan, but one shouldn't spend one's money like a fan. It doesn't tend to make the thing you're a fan of better. It doesn't incentivize high standards of quality or responsiveness to demand. Because they know they've got you by the balls then, no need to listen to whining. Cyberpunk 2077 is what you get when you give a company credit for its past work.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Think everyone will say its fine, then proceed to ghost him and never be available each time he offers to DM another session. One of the 4 people will probably write something on r/rpghorrorstories " Been raped by abusive russian Dm" or something like that.

Now imagine a group where such DM's are cherished, and where the players expect such encounter design.

Those are the people who made Kingmaker for us.

 

[Saravan]

Thats not a wrong approach, but neither is giving them credit based on their past work.

Giving a company credit for their past work is a poor way to spend your money. You aren't buying their reputation, you're buying a product. Buy a product if it's good. Don't buy it until it's good. Their past work is the best modern RPG and an all time great, but it was also extremely buggy and borderline unplayable to some on release. I played it late so I've only heard that, but it's still pretty goddamn buggy now. Waiting for stability is just a sound decision if you don't think of yourself as a fan but as a consumer.

I am a fan, but one shouldn't spend one's money like a fan. It doesn't tend to make the thing you're a fan of better. It doesn't incentivize high standards of quality or responsiveness to demand. Because they know they've got you by the balls then, no need to listen to whining. Cyberpunk 2077 is what you get when you give a company credit for its past work.

I mean just look at modern Blizzard or Bioware.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I mean just look at modern Blizzard or Bioware.

Well, I consider Bioware dead from the day they were acquired by the EA, and Blizzard... I think I have played none of their games.

I see no such a drastic turn for Owlcat Games so far.

 

[Saravan]

I mean just look at modern Blizzard or Bioware.

Well, I consider Bioware dead from the day they were acquired by the EA, and Blizzard... I think I have played none of their games.

I see no such a drastic turn for Owlcat Games so far.

Me neither, that would be an overaction to say the least but I agree with his overall point.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I prefer a case-by-case approach. Bioware is EA, Activision Blizzard will be lead by Andrew Cuomo, and Owlcat Games are Owlcat Games. If this changes I will review my attitude. However, so far I am quite happy being a backer of WotR.

 

[Humbaba]

I am of the firm belief that post-launch support is more important than smooth release. Despite all the possible ratings.

The former is the sign of the game that is there to stay. The latter might be the sign of a well polished cash grab for 2-3 years.

I'd say that the support of Kingmaker from Owlcat Games is one of the best.

On the other hand, a smooth release eliminates the need for post-launch support as far as bug fixes are concerned.

Giving a company credit for their past work is a poor way to spend your money. You aren't buying their reputation, you're buying a product. Buy a product if it's good. Don't buy it until it's good. Their past work is the best modern RPG and an all time great, but it was also extremely buggy and borderline unplayable to some on release. I played it late so I've only heard that, but it's still pretty goddamn buggy now. Waiting for stability is just a sound decision if you don't think of yourself as a fan but as a consumer.

I am a fan, but one shouldn't spend one's money like a fan. It doesn't tend to make the thing you're a fan of better. It doesn't incentivize high standards of quality or responsiveness to demand. Because they know they've got you by the balls then, no need to listen to whining. Cyberpunk 2077 is what you get when you give a company credit for its past work.

Ok, now this is

 

[zapotec]

i'll wait for the "enhanced edition" as you should do

 

[santino27]

Bro... now *I* want a d20 cake for my bday. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Imagine baking a d20 cake and having it roll a fucking 5. Even at parties, Owlcat is making sure we fail our rolls.

 

[Desiderius]

Looks like Vulpine Pounce (the Kitsune Feat with prereq BAB 10 that just gives you Pounce in Kitsune Form) doesn't work with Disciple of the Pike ability Pike Charge.

Doesn't work as in doesn't Pounce at all. Usually you activate the Charge button and if you have Pounce it executes a Full Attack. Here you just get the regular one (with the Pike Charge Bonus), so the Feat does nothing.

So 11 levels for nothing (although did learn a great deal about playing Cavalier - I'm a fan - and this particular subclass - it's solid if unspectacular). This is what I mean about not choosing a new class for first playthrough at launch.

 

[The_Mask]

(although did learn a great deal about playing Cavalier - I'm a fan - and this particular subclass - it's solid if unspectacular)

Is it the same as regular where the mount gets attacked first, then the rider?

 

[Desiderius]

(although did learn a great deal about playing Cavalier - I'm a fan - and this particular subclass - it's solid if unspectacular)

Is it the same as regular where the mount gets attacked first, then the rider?

Disciple is the Mountless one that gets defensive abilities (Dodge bonus depending on relative size, so I was building toward fighting Reduced, which works well with Cav because of the big Challenge damage bonus), Arcana and Nature Lore Bonus per lvl/2, and Weapon Training instead. I was hoping to use it with the Azata Dragon and it's reasonably solid as long as you're not playing with anyone else who can use the Weapon Training gloves. Anyway For the King is a great one, but that's available to any Cavalier so might try a different one next time. Definitely will be playing the Halfling one at some point but it has it's own Order and whole point was playing Order of the Lion to get the +3 Shield Bonus to adjacent characters on the Dragon, so we'll see. Azata's probably better for caster in any event.

 

[Shadenuat]

Have a look there for guidelines GM's Guide to Creating Challenging Encounters - Google Docs

I’m a part-time Wargamer (Warhammer Fantasy, if you must know), and one of the reasons I got bored with the game has absolutely nothing to do with the rules or the lack of perfect balance or the expense associated with the hobby. It was the games I was playing. Basically, my friends would set up our armies perfectly aligned from one another and we would fight head-to-head to the last man until someone had been completely destroyed. And that someone was ALWAYS me. Why? Because I couldn’t out-tactics my friends.

You either lose enough at wargames to learn to win, or become a Pathfinder DM.

 

[Desiderius]

Have a look there for guidelines GM's Guide to Creating Challenging Encounters - Google Docs

I’m a part-time Wargamer (Warhammer Fantasy, if you must know), and one of the reasons I got bored with the game has absolutely nothing to do with the rules or the lack of perfect balance or the expense associated with the hobby. It was the games I was playing. Basically, my friends would set up our armies perfectly aligned from one another and we would fight head-to-head to the last man until someone had been completely destroyed. And that someone was ALWAYS me. Why? Because I couldn’t out-tactics my friends.

You either lose enough at wargames to learn to win, or become a Pathfinder DM.

Yeah it seems like this inordinate concern with Core Difficulty isn't just a thing with PnPers it's with specifically PnP DMs. Are these the Cool Moms of the DM world?



Heed this wisdom, helicopter DMs!

 

[Reinhardt]

This is Russia, so the DM takes a bottle of vodka and breaks it on your head with full of his strength.

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