Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Pink Eye]

Yeah. The game comes out in a day. Just wait till then.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius , K, then before this thread ends and for someone who hasn't been paying attention:

Which companions do you feel are the best mix of good writing and build potential?

So far, I've heard Regil and Arueshla-whatever are interesting, but any else to round out a party?

For a first time play before running with mercs...

As far as build they all do interesting and unique things. And even Sosiel's story is way more about his brother the HK than him (who you can evidently eventually recruit even), with a theme the edgelords would love if they weren't ideologically committed to the butthurt.

Spoiler

Cam you get Fencing Grace and Iceplant (plus the ring that doubles the bonus) right away and fight Reduced and she slays, tanks, and buffs with fast spell progression. By lvl 8 Hampering Hex is -4AC no save nothing immune.
Seelah's stats are solid for a Pal and all of Pal's narrow abilities get turned on in this setting so she's a powerhouse.
Lann + Cleaving Shot just randomly nukes groups. Improved Crit + Perfect Strike + Cleaving also triggers whenever he kills anything which is often.
Wenduag gets to Seize the Moment + Greater Snap Shot + Fighters Tactics reasonably early as a Fighter so gets an AoO whenever anyone within 15 feet crits, and she'll have 24 DEX so that's a lot of AoOs.
Wolj is a blender and Scoundrel has all the defense Vivi doesn't and with his Vitals he ends up with more Sneaks too.
Nenio's scrolls that she makes have higher DCs than her regular spells for some reason so you can just give them to other companions who can cast them and go off. Plus her Illusion spells are enemies only AoE control that works great midgame.
Ember is a strange one but you can pre-buff with Protective Luck + Fortune + Cackle at level 8 if you're patient. I don't think I will be. At lvl 10 she gets an ability that can give each of your other characters a bite attack for ten minutes each plus she nukes pretty well and gets a rez (no mats required) at 16.
Sosiel has four relevant Domain abilities that go off with Domain Zealot to make them Swift Actions. Even better if you add an Impossible domain.
Daeran can nuke stuff with Holy Damage they can't resist and that comes with conditions like Blind, Daze, and Stun
Greybor is Dual Wield Strength Slayer with the ability that reduces DR with each hit.
Reg's weapon goes perfect with Leading Strike and his AoE buff gives Morale AC to group which is rare. And his writing is great.
Aru is the perfect scout and also does a lot of damage with Cleaving while also buffing the team.

All playable and interesting to mix and match like you can go all non-good party to dodge Smite Good or non-human because some things have fav enemy Human.

 

[Shadenuat]

Ugh...is it so hard to acknowledge Chris nowadays?

Owlcats were the only studio that didn't outright cancel him (maybe also Vavra?). They basically said "we're sad. but we're gonna wait and see how it goes".

Of course, that is not what they should have said. What they should have said: "It would be inhuman to instantly cancel that guy who, as we said ourselves before, given us so much support and read our shitty writing and tried to fix it; he should bring it to the Court and Court decide who is rong."
A "we stand with Chris" and "fuck your cancel culture" would be too much to ask I guess, although one popular dev said second once (some survival game?).

there's one thing I'm still sad didn't make it to the final game

sadly we had to cut romances in Wrath

Hehe, very sad.

as for SJWism: fix your own failed countries, then 2d world wouldn't have to pander to you to get all the money from twatter.

Now give Russians all your lesbian money.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

sadly we had to cut romances in Wrath

What's the source on that? The wiki is still listing companions as romanceable or not

 

[Fredward]

If I lean storyfag would this be worth playing?

I heard you can gay kiss in this game so nevermind the story lol, day 1 purchase (well, piracy for I am but a poor postgrad).

Though I thought if you promoted the homoglobo agenda in the Motherland Putin would personally escort you to the gulag he keeps Navalny? Stay strong martyr-patriots, your sacrifice will be remembered in the coming empire.

 

[Black_Willow]

read a book?

Because the books which you read gives knowledge about how to do things like :

You should let the book lead the crusade then.

Yeah, let's do it by the book.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

When in reality it's the opposite. As it has recently come to light that they were going to add some tranny into Kingmaker

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

So for the people who have played the game. How well does an evil characters fit into the narrative? Afaik the game is about leading a holy crusade against demons, which feels somewhat weird for an evil/chaotic character.

The side fighting against the demons is led by a tranny and his orc "lesbian" wife. Pretty sure the demons aren't the evil ones in this setting.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I forgot, lich can have some (three?) other undead companions, but I don't remember their classes... I think one is an archer? Anyway, about a good lich, a dev answered this today:
https://old.reddit.com/r/OwlcatGame...e_anything_session_with_owlcat_games/hb2r1tx/

Lich had 4 graveguards in beta. Archer one is slayer. Other ones are melee mostly. 1 warpriest, 1 cavalier and 1 multiclassed warrior (kinda spoilery) Also there should be 5th one on new acts.

But if you try to be a "good" lich you cannot have them. Reanimating them (or killing them then reanimating them) is an evil act.

 

[Saravan]

So for the people who have played the game. How well does an evil characters fit into the narrative? Afaik the game is about leading a holy crusade against demons, which feels somewhat weird for an evil/chaotic character.

The side fighting against the demons is led by a tranny and his orc "lesbian" wife. Pretty sure the demons aren't the evil ones in this setting.

This flaw is miniscule because it's overshadowed by excellent buildfag combat.

The real issue is Desiderius and the Russian gang being absolutely incapable to accept it's flawed and have to resort to gold-medalist level of mental gymnastics to try explain how "ASHKULLY Owlcat are story geniuses because if you read Dostojevskij you would know this is Russian master IQ500 subversion". Just stop the cope please and celebrate the game's real strengths instead, it's pathetic.

 

[Tacgnol]

So for the people who have played the game. How well does an evil characters fit into the narrative? Afaik the game is about leading a holy crusade against demons, which feels somewhat weird for an evil/chaotic character.

I think a key point to remember with evil characters in "good" campaigns, is that just because they're evil doesn't mean they want the potentially global consequences of whatever the big bads are planning.

Evil characters have wants and desires, whether that's hedonistic pleasure, domination of others or any other twisted desires. The big bad's plans will often conflict with their desires, so working with the forces of good may be the best way of ensuring they can meet their own objectives in the long term.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Speaking for myself, and myself only, as I'm not the one who calls the shots: I really want to make Iron Gods, aka Pathfinder: Fallout. This is NOT an announcement of a next game

From AMA

edit: C&C stuff

 

[Shadenuat]

What's the source on that? The wiki is still listing companions as romanceable or not

all the shitposting on previous pages; cat-romance pro wanted more complex romances (polyamour) but it was cut.

 

[Swen]

Well, well, well...seems Owlcuck games will be releasing their sh*t tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see how hard this one will flop and if DOS2 will remain king of CRPG's.

 

[Jaedar]

Evil characters have wants and desires, whether that's hedonistic pleasure, domination of others or any other twisted desires. The big bad's plans will often conflict with their desires, so working with the forces of good may be the best way of ensuring they can meet their own objectives in the long term.

Well yes, but that tends to be a good reason to let the goody two shoes exhaust themselves stopping the big bad (perhaps helping a bit from the sidelines if it looks like they might lose or if you can extract grievous concessions in exchange for your aid), not lead the charge yourself.

So for the people who have played the game. How well does an evil characters fit into the narrative? Afaik the game is about leading a holy crusade against demons, which feels somewhat weird for an evil/chaotic character.

This cannot be answered without horribly spoiling quite a big chunk of the game. You're forcing us to spoil at least 1/3 of the game's narrative.

I think you don't want that to happen, and just play the game and find out for yourself.

I assume that this means that there are *unknown* reasons an evil character makes sense. That's good, thanks for hinting instead of spoiling.

 

[smaug]

Don't rate me 'What?' ever again, Sarkile Here's an instance of Desi stating, as authoritatively as possible, that Kingmaker's poz is a caricature of SJWsm; and how it somehow subverts the trope - because the developers are russians. When in reality it's the opposite. As it has recently come to light that they were going to add some tranny into Kingmaker; however due to time constraints, they cut it out. Whom, I might add, was going to have some intimate relationship with Linzi.

You may not be interested in the Poz, but the Poz is very interested in you. This game subverts it. You can take refuge in classical archetypes or you can take the fight to the enemy. Given the enemy the latter seems the manlier option.

Of course they're not sexy. That's the whole point of the Poz. Birth rates aren't going to reduce themselves.

You added a bunch of shit to what I said. Realty itself subverts SJWism which is why it sucks. A writer who seeks to accurately reflect reality - Val getting her comeuppance, Amiri's stonk wamen getting owned, whatever - is going to subvert SJWism just by doing her job well. Pretty much each of the companion quest arcs in P:K subvert SJW tropes one way or another. Less so here and Ekun -> Seelah is a step down and the buckbroken Cleric even further. Lann reconciling with his family is miles ahead of Eder's abortion of a quest in Deadfire so a mixed bag.

The Poz is weak-willed acceptance/half-hearted celebration of base nature (and perversions thereof) and the ignorance of any alternative or why anyone would want one as well as an effort to (sometimes passive-aggressively) drag everyone else down to that level. Lurv is lurv. As LannTheStupid has said some of that here is just Russian fatalism, some a hangover of trendy Western libertarianism/libertinism. Yeah, it's there, it sux, I avoid it, the game makes the perversions relatively easy to avoid.

That said, most of you phaggots have personal issues you've evidently decided to work out at my expense by making shit up about me or what I meant or have written or whatever. Life's too short for your nihilist horseshit. You're on ignore.

For the new thread I'm just sticking to game mechanics stuff and all y'all can fuck right off.

You’re such a crybaby and a simp that you’ll go above and beyond to defend “le based owlcat”

I am excited to play this mostly cause I am doing it alongside with my dad and friends, but I also acknowledge I have shit taste in games but seeing this hailed as the the second coming especially on the codex of all places is hilarious

 

[Tacgnol]

Well yes, but that tends to be a good reason to let the goody two shoes exhaust themselves stopping the big bad (perhaps helping a bit from the sidelines if it looks like they might lose or if you can extract grievous concessions in exchange for your aid), not lead the charge yourself.

Depends on the type of evil, it's a big spectrum. A lawful evil character may actually be so deluded with their self righteousness that they believe themselves and all their actions to be good (or at least the greater good).

They may believe themselves the best to lead the charge.

You could also be someone who reluctantly takes the mantle because your evil outlook makes you realise ruthlessness is required to win, and that you can't afford to let the goodies fuck it up.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

As alignments are meta-properties, it's reasonable to assume your own character(which is separate from you) is not aware of their alignment.
Heck, showing your companion's alignment in cRPGs on their character page is doing it completely wrong.

This is what Gygax had to say on the matter:

When players began to announce their character’s alignment to other participants I shuddered. I suggested that such information was not for broadcast, that the PCs might not actually think of themselves as categorized thus, and the alignment categories were meant more to guide the player in playing his character in the game.

 

[Jaedar]

As alignments are meta-properties, it's reasonable to assume your own character(which is separate from you) is not aware of their alignment.

Afaik alignments are easily checked with level 2 spells. A random peasant might be unaware, anyone important would not be.

 

[Tacgnol]

As alignments are meta-properties, it's reasonable to assume your own character(which is separate from you) is not aware of their alignment.

Afaik alignments are easily checked with level 2 spells. A random peasant might be unaware, anyone important would not be.

It's made pretty clear in various Pathfinder APs, that it is not considered polite or normal to go around casting detect evil all the time.

It's a spell with somatic and verbal components, most people will not act favourably to a caster randomly starting to do somatic and verbal casting in their presence without explanation.

Besides, most characters are going to be pretty sure of what they are, and aren't going to care about the reality. The point is made in many APs where pointing out an NPC's alignment via detection spells will just be met with outright denial or even accusations of falsehood against the caster.

 

[Shadenuat]

When players began to announce their character’s alignment to other participants I shuddered. I suggested that such information was not for broadcast, that the PCs might not actually think of themselves as categorized thus, and the alignment categories were meant more to guide the player in playing his character in the game.

always played/DMd it like that and never could understand how one could treat them otherwise.
detect/slay evil, I ruled it affects mythological creatures/outsiders and those that serve them or gain power of them (very fanatical priests & sorcerers succumbing to their bloodline).

 

[CaesarCzech]

Is it moral to abortt Orcs?

https://www.enworld.org/threads/q-a-with-gary-gygax.22566/page-336#post-3341757

Sorry, but Gary is still wrong here. Orcs are monsters. They're listed as monsters. There is nothing wrong with a Paladin or anyone else killing them without hesitation, be it for research, sport or righteous genocide.

I mean isnt the Orc baby only moral dilema because it does offer opportunity(throught not guranteed) to basically have nurture overcome nature ? as in only baby can be non evil and even then its not guranteed and you need to really work for it ?

 

[CaesarCzech]

Don't rate me 'What?' ever again, Sarkile Here's an instance of Desi stating, as authoritatively as possible, that Kingmaker's poz is a caricature of SJWsm; and how it somehow subverts the trope - because the developers are russians. When in reality it's the opposite. As it has recently come to light that they were going to add some tranny into Kingmaker; however due to time constraints, they cut it out. Whom, I might add, was going to have some intimate relationship with Linzi.

You may not be interested in the Poz, but the Poz is very interested in you. This game subverts it. You can take refuge in classical archetypes or you can take the fight to the enemy. Given the enemy the latter seems the manlier option.

Of course they're not sexy. That's the whole point of the Poz. Birth rates aren't going to reduce themselves.

nooooooo not my heckin based slavarinos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they are not based lol, they are not even Navalny.

LannTheStupid Would you say Owlcat fits Yablko ?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I am excited to play this mostly cause I am doing it alongside with my dad and friends

That's the healthy attitude! Good man! I'm dropping off the kid at his grandma's and will be starting the playthrough alongside the wife, who is both a BG/IWD/PK fan and a HoMM3 expert :D

 

[Shadenuat]

I mean isnt the Orc baby only moral dilema because it does offer opportunity(throught not guranteed) to basically have nurture overcome nature ?

the orc dilemma is trying to drag modern morality on a world which is based on medieval one + magic. medieval citizen would probably throw orc into fire no thinking because this is spawn of devil; same as they would leave sick/lame/unwanted children in the forest for fey to raise them instead, while their ok healthy children would still die to diseases cause medicine sucked; and women would also die lot more. and generally, people would die more and earlier. magic is what throws a sort of a wrench into all of this tho.

the variations on resolution of that narrative would depend heavily on the setting (maybe in your setting growing monsters into slaves is normal) and characters playing, their cultures and backgrounds (neutral druid would give baby 1 knife 1 set of matches and tell them to survive themselves etc.). so even 3 different Paladins would resolve this differently.