Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
Early unfair is a bitch. I nearly lost my sanity after wasting over one hundred hours of my life on Unfair Iron Man.

Bro if you even tried that you need to reevaluate some things


Unfortunately the info needed to follow the game closely is Opt In for P:K, so many have the impression that it is hard to follow in RTwP. If you turn on those settings and use the V key/Autopause sets it's easier to follow than PoE/BG2.

With rotating camera from mod/WotR even easier.

Here's the thing, the slowdown feature in Kingmaker requires you to hold the key down, which is incredibly annoying. I even looked for mods to turn it into a toggle and never found one. What other settings are you talking about? There's also just the sheer level of visual pollution caused by some skills. Like I mentioned in the other thread, Dreadful Carnage is absurdly offensive in this regard.

PoE is a far more polished experience for RtwP because the entire system was build from the ground up for it. And they had the benefit of iterating on it for a second instalment, which is where those AI scripts came in and they did a lot of additional work in terms of visual clarity. And BG2 greatly benefits from the fact that AD&D rogues and fighters (and even clerics to some extent) are pretty much auto attack bots.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,365
Pathfinder: Wrath
https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/505773273
Someone posted six mythic paths and mythic feats screenshot.
SioJXNl.png

y2NsdGV.png

GJfxTQJ.png

TjhuDa8.png

3Rr5JLw.png

I0DY3an.png

HCijSrT.png

fW9tDkj.png

Honestly, I was expecting that Mythic Path choice to be handled through story choice instead of menu-based. Guess I am wrong.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,468
Location
Frostfell
Not only that certain things are missing from the original companions. Eg : Wanna a full caster? Create your own merc. Octavia has a rogue level and is a specialized wizard. Wanna a druid? Create your own companion. The fact that you have 2 clerics but ZERO pure arcane casters bugs me. Mainly when on prologue, there are a dragon disciple temporary companion(not sure).

It is not a problem for me, but for someone who don't enjoy playing as a arcane caster, having no pure arcane force is really bad...

I really wish AT LEAST a single arcane caster companion and looks like Witch is confirmed (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2762359 )
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,793
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
>Bro if you even tried that you need to reevaluate some things
Originally it was impossible. Until I was made aware of some cheese you can do with the fog wall at chapter 1. The hard part was surviving to even be able to get to that point. You can potentially cheese the fog wall. Rush to Varnhold. Pick up the amulet. Go to lonely barrow. Then cheese the lich. You should be able to easily reach 10 levels from it, all at chapter 1. Of course you need to abuse exp settings, and cheese the AI a bit. But it's doable.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Toggle is the Space key with Autopauses set, but holding V down is fine too since you use it when you want the ability to react in a fine-grained manner, not all the time.

If you want a "full" caster then use your MC. All companions are quirky, but end up being stronger then a merc, both in a vacuum (higher point buy, and no they aren't misapplied if you understand the game) but especially if tuned for specific chapters which you can do since there are so many, due to both the way they're built and the unique rewards of their companion quests. Much of the game involves the process of figuring this out.

Also missing as Trashos has noted is the archetypal male hero, but again that leaves the space open for the MC. Companions are for getting out of the cookie-cutter comfort zone.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Not only that certain things are missing from the original companions. Eg : Wanna a full caster? Create your own merc. Octavia has a rogue level and is a specialized wizard. Wanna a druid? Create your own companion. The fact that you have 2 clerics but ZERO pure arcane casters bugs me. Mainly when on prologue, there are a dragon disciple temporary companion(not sure).

It is not a problem for me, but for someone who don't enjoy playing as a arcane caster, having no pure arcane force is really bad...

I really wish AT LEAST a single arcane caster companion and looks like Witch is confirmed (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2762359 )

If you want a pure caster you've got one with decent action economy in Octavia Arcane Trickster so you don't end up trying to rest spam the game and tanking your kingdom. Evidently there were plenty of people who didn't take the hint and did so anyway. Harrim, Val, and Amiri all make fine Druids for different purposes, with their splash filling holes in the pure Druid build. The only class that is completely missing among companions is Paladin.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I don't see how companions can be superior to a properly optimized fully custom built party at all aside from Ekundayo and Nok-Nok, who have ridiculous stats. How is Jubilost better than a merc Grenadier with muchkined stats? Amiri as a Barbarian with no archetype, 16 starting STR? Valerie with Bastard Sword proficency?

Again, the answers to those questions are all in game. How can you complain about stat bloat then in the same breath claim that builds are gimped because the stats are one or two from max? You're making no sense. One of the strengths of the game is how it makes all the stats matter (yes even CHR with all the Intimidation effects), but Jewb's already pretty Munchkined.

Mercs get a lower point buy and don't get Jewb's huge Companion quest reward. Grenadier looks great and unfortunately is strictly better since Poison doesn't matter, but all the cool abilities don't really amount to much (I've played one MC). Bombs don't care about Martial Proficiency.

No Archetype Barb (like the other Unchained classes) has one of the strongest first two levels in the game. You'd want to splash them if she didn't have them.

Val's Bastard Sword proficiency fits perfect with Oppressor if you're using her high CHR (which you should be, as it gets boosted by her companion quest).

C'mon man, we've all figured this all out already. Why haven't you?
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,468
Location
Frostfell
If you want a pure caster you've got one with decent action economy in Octavia Arcane Trickster so you don't end up trying to rest spam the game and tanking your kingdom

You don't need to rest spam with a PURE caster. Just don't go nuking EVERY encounter with high tier spells. I an at chapter 3 at moment and my lv 10 main sorcerer has 8 uses of tier 1 spell, 8 uses of tier 2 spell, 7 uses of tier 3 spells, 6 uses of tier 4 spells and 4 uses if tier 5 spells. Considering that one or two fireballs + some autoattacks can end most encounters, i can fight around 5 encounters not being very economic about my spell slots without resting. And using my wands, i can fight probably 10 encounters if i need to. Even with magic missile 5(d4+1), i can deal a little of damage every round. Some classes gain powers that can be used a lot of times per day. Being quick enough means that a animate dead can last 3 encounters.

Octavia rely on the BROKEN sneak attack to be useful. And since she is a specialized wizard, she can't learn all spells.

I recently defended my capital on season of bloom without resting a single time, except before the Great Primal Owlbear. With just 3 party members(Sorc/Cleric/Kineticist). If i had used my wands/scrolls, i could end up this encounter without resting even before him.
 

Seari

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
849
Pathfinder: Wrath
Those mythic paths look underwhelming so far. But it's just the first level I guess.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
11,468
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Well the Devs were saying something about discovering the mythic paths, so there may be a real story element to it in the final release. They may have also given some access to abilities for testing that you wouldn't have in the same way or by the same time in the final release.

It's an alpha test, not a sneak preview of the final build.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,513
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
trickster casts mirror image...
such mythic, much wow!
That's the first mythic rank out of ten, it seems more than appropriate to me. They can't immediately give you game breaking abilities (well, they could, but it wouldn't be that fun).

Also, in Kingmaker I would kill to be able to use Mirror Image with my melee characters. When I go Paladin/Sorcerer/EK, Mirror Image is easily my most used spell during the entire playthrough.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
How can you complain about stat bloat then in the same breath claim that builds are gimped because the stats are one or two from max? You're making no sense.

What is the relation between the two? Optimization means taking every edge you can get. It's specially relevant when enemies are getting boosts to saves and AC due to higher stats on Unfair and Hard. One point in spell DC and attack bonus can be difference between hitting or not hitting.

One of the strengths of the game is how it makes all the stats matter (yes even CHR with all the Intimidation effects), but Jewb's already pretty Munchkined.

Flat out untrue. You CAN make CERTAIN stats matter by investing precious feats into your build. What use does Amiri have for intelligence? What use does she have for charisma? Charisma you can salvage by giving her cornugon smash and other intimidation feats, but, again, you could've built a custom merc with higher Cha and Str from the ground up for this. Again, U N O P T I M I Z E D.

Mercs get a lower point buy

Factually incorrect, with a few exceptions. Amiri, in fact, has a 5 POINT LOWER stat buy than normal and so does Jubilost. If you've played the game and theorycrafted as much as you seem to, you're either being disingenous or making egregious mistakes. Also, higher point buy means squat if they're tied up to the wrong stats.

and don't get Jewb's huge Companion quest reward.

Most of them are decent and just barely cover up the poor stat buys and class choices, others are borderline meaningless. Case in point, Amiri's swords are superseded by a ton of weapons in the game, even at the point where you get them. Jubilost's reviving on first world ability is nice, but ideally you want to be not dying in the first place and his +10 do knowledge checks are laughable.

But the main point to be made here is that these bonuses from companion quests come in at about 3/4 of the way through the game and the context of our discussion was whether I was giving myself a harder time in the beginning, which we've both agreed is BY FAR the biggest difficulty hurdle in the game, specially on Unfair and Hard - so much so that you yourself increase the difficulty gradually as the game goes on. Yay Valerie gets +2 STR and +2 CHA at a point where the game is already a cakewalk. Whoop-de-whoo.

Grenadier looks great and unfortunately is strictly better

Oh, so it's strictly better to make a Grenadier than a regular Alch? So Jubilost is strictly worse than a merc based on his class alone, while also having a 5 point lower stat buy than normal, suboptimal stat allocation AND a crappy companion quest reward?

No Archetype Barb (like the other Unchained classes) has one of the strongest first two levels in the game. You'd want to splash them if she didn't have them.

Uncanny dodge and Rage for 2+Con modifier is not worth a 2 lvl splash, what? Also if you're going straight barbarian route unkitted barb is worse than just about every other option.

Val's Bastard Sword proficiency fits perfect with Oppressor if you're using her high CHR (which you should be, as it gets boosted by her companion quest).

Yes, you can salvage her build in this way. OR make a main tank with better STR and DEX and leave the bastard sword and intimidation feats to someone else.

C'mon man, we've all figured this all out already. Why haven't you?

Are you capable of having a discussion without sounding so petulant and pedantic?

Last but not least you're missing the biggest point by far in why having mercs is superior: the ability to come up with a specialized party composition with whatever classes and races you want. Make a party of Alchemist + Cleric + 3 rangers + Ekundayo with the grossly overpowered animal companions of the base game and you'll trounce anything in your path 5 times easier than you would with companions.

The point was that making mercs makes the game easier, and that's true everywhere except for this imaginary realm where getting a small reward at fucking Act 6-7 makes up for everything else I mentioned.
 
Last edited:

Xamenos

Magister
Patron
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,256
Pathfinder: Wrath
Octavia rely on the BROKEN sneak attack to be useful. And since she is a specialized wizard, she can't learn all spells.
While true in base 3.5, it's not the case in Pathfinder. Specialist wizards can still learn all spells, those from opposed schools just cost two slots each to prepare. Unless they're Thassilonian specialists, that is. It's true that it's not necessary to rest spam even with a pure caster main though. I finished the game with a main (conj) wizard, and I NEVER had to spam rests.

any news about the different difficulties and what they have to offer? challenging and above is stat bloat again?
They've said higher difficulties will now mean smarter opponents with more abilities and spells instead of stat bloat. It's obviously too early to tell whether it's gonna work well.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Mister Familiar
it doesnt even scale like others, 3 images forever.
its truly minuscule compared to other options

Image was the strongest ability in base game for anyone who wanted to tank. Reduced chance to be hit by orders of magnitude. My guess is they'll move it to later in the progression due to being too strong.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
Gay-Newb mad.

Git gud.

Sure dude, you've spent dozens of hours discussing this game and hundreds more playing it, but can't be arsed to read a semi-long reply to one of your posts. Or you have no real answer, which, considering how much time you've put into the game, is extra embarassing.

People have been real lax with handing out those Dumbfuck tags as of late, it seems.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
Owlcat apologists: GUISE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE REAL-TIME WITH PAUSE IN THIS GAME ITS STILL A TOTALLY STRATEGIC GAEM WITH NO READABILITY ISSUES

The game:

index.php


Screenshot courtesy of resident master theorycrafter and all-around unassailable galaxy brain genius Desiderius. Favorite hobby: posting shots of BIG DAMAGE NUMBARS ON VYDIAGAME.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,131
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
If you want a pure caster you've got one with decent action economy in Octavia Arcane Trickster so you don't end up trying to rest spam the game and tanking your kingdom

You don't need to rest spam with a PURE caster. Just don't go nuking EVERY encounter with high tier spells. I an at chapter 3 at moment and my lv 10 main sorcerer has 8 uses of tier 1 spell, 8 uses of tier 2 spell, 7 uses of tier 3 spells, 6 uses of tier 4 spells and 4 uses if tier 5 spells. Considering that one or two fireballs + some autoattacks can end most encounters, i can fight around 5 encounters not being very economic about my spell slots without resting. And using my wands, i can fight probably 10 encounters if i need to. Even with magic missile 5(d4+1), i can deal a little of damage every round. Some classes gain powers that can be used a lot of times per day. Being quick enough means that a animate dead can last 3 encounters.

Octavia rely on the BROKEN sneak attack to be useful. And since she is a specialized wizard, she can't learn all spells.

I recently defended my capital on season of bloom without resting a single time, except before the Great Primal Owlbear. With just 3 party members(Sorc/Cleric/Kineticist). If i had used my wands/scrolls, i could end up this encounter without resting even before him.

YOU don't, but from what I've seen the average player would. That Sneak Die on Octavia's cantrip ups their DPS by 20%.

Sneaks aren't broken, it makes non-weapon options barely competitive (not really, but at least you get to play the way you enjoy without feeling like you're gimping yourself). AoE nukes/metamagic are another question, but then Sneaks are pretty much just chip damage without Vitals which burns another valuable slot.

IF you dedicate yourself to nuking you don't need to rest spam by mid-game with good play, that's true. Viable if you enjoy that. I like to have some control spells in there too.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom