Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Desiderius]

How is there anything left standing for them to hit?

If you just want to buff yourself play a Barb.

The stuff that I care about killing doesn’t run back, it turns around and nukes my shit. Fear is good combo with Ranged.

 

[Average Manatee]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

Was wondering when that was going to be fixed. Probably not much worth it now considering the requirements.

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

Check out the new skald inciter. While giving up 2 rage powers is indeed painful (nothing that a few feats can't fix), getting 4d6 sneak and the ability to share 3d6 sneak with everyone (including rogue talents!!! Dispel strikes for EVERYONE) is kinda nutters.

The free debuff that you inflict on all enemies is just the cherry on top.

You're basically trading your skald talents (which would be combat tricks->some melee combat feat) for sneak attacks. I think that's probably a bad trade in most cases.

Being two rage powers behind is big, that's two less feats you have to spend on things. Basically all your feats are going to be stuck in rage powers and other support stuff, so you won't be hitting or dealing much damage in melee yourself. This is fine but being pure support is generally bad for an MC. +3d6 sneak to your party is 10.5 damage. That's not bad, but it comes *really* late, only getting your first 1d6 at level 8.

The "free" debuff is the usual "relevant enemies will save against this 95% of the time" thing. Things need equipment/feat/mythic support to reach good DCs in this game. Ditto for dispelling attack, doesn't it cap at character level? I don't think that's sufficient to dispel bosses much. Good dispelling requires much higher checks somehow.

Maybe at level 20 (or 40) you'll be ahead but I think the leveling experience will be much worse and you'll feel incredibly feat starved.

 

[Mauman]

You're basically trading your skald talents (which would be combat tricks->some melee combat feat) for sneak attacks. I think that's probably a bad trade in most cases.

Being two rage powers behind is big, that's two less feats you have to spend on things. Basically all your feats are going to be stuck in rage powers and other support stuff, so you won't be hitting or dealing much damage in melee yourself. This is fine but being pure support is generally bad for an MC. +3d6 sneak to your party is 10.5 damage. That's not bad, but it comes *really* late, only getting your first 1d6 at level 8.

The "free" debuff is the usual "relevant enemies will save against this 95% of the time" thing. Things need equipment/feat/mythic support to reach good DCs in this game. Ditto for dispelling attack, doesn't it cap at character level? I don't think that's sufficient to dispel bosses much. Good dispelling requires much higher checks somehow.

Maybe at level 20 (or 40) you'll be ahead but I think the leveling experience will be much worse and you'll feel incredibly feat starved.

You don't lose the skald talents. The progression starts two levels later, but you get the same amount. You can just choose between combat feats and the rogue talents this time around. Don't want to take dispelling/whatever strike? Then don't.

I do agree that 2 rage powers is a big deal, but I recently respecced my melee skald at level 16 and even though I had to take extra rage a few extra times I was still at the point where I was like "I guess I can take weapon focus now, I don't know what else to really take".

As for the sneak attack bonus, I guess it comes down to your party makeup. If you have lots of melee/archers/ray casters and animal companions, even 1d6 is going to add a lot over time. It also stacks with pre-existing sneak attack (as long as you don't go over the half-level max).

Finally, I agree about the debuff. However, it's free action economy wise (besides using your incite rage) and the capstone makes it work even if it doesn't. So yeah, like I said, cherry on top.

edit - oh, and they get an up to +4 extra bonus on will saves towards most effects, because why the hell not, I guess?

 

[Average Manatee]

You don't lose the skald talents. The progression starts two levels later, but you get the same amount. You can just choose between combat feats and the rogue talents this time around. Don't want to take dispelling/whatever strike? Then don't.

Ahh, the game confused me with how its laid out. Definitely a lot better then.

I do agree that 2 rage powers is a big deal, but I recently respecced my melee skald at level 16 and even though I had to take extra rage a few extra times I was still at the point where I was like "I guess I can take weapon focus now, I don't know what else to really take".

I mean I generally build skald as a two handed melee character and between the melee feats and the rage powers I end up with only like 1 extra feat by level 20 I can do without.

As for the sneak attack bonus, I guess it comes down to your party makeup. If you have lots of melee/archers/ray casters and animal companions, even 1d6 is going to add a lot over time. It also stacks with pre-existing sneak attack (as long as you don't go over the half-level max).

Ehh, by the lategame when you're dealing like 50 damage minimum per attack, and the sneak isn't multiplied on crits (which are between 50% and 100% of the hits you land), I think its not that great.

So, losing two feats for the sneak stuff. I'd say its probably slightly better than base skald but not significantly. Personally I still need to do a Mad Dog 19/Skald 1.

 

[Mauman]

I mean I generally build skald as a two handed melee character and between the melee feats and the rage powers I end up with only like 1 extra feat by level 20 I can do without.

Same actually. I don't feel feat starved though. Do you take extra performance? Because I don't. You only feel like you don't have enough in the very early parts of the game, and then you feel like (with lingering performance) you'll almost never run out. Also, since my skald doesn't have a mount* and is usually the first person out front so others can take advantage of the rage radius I don't have to bother with teamwork feats. Besides power attack, improved initiative, and focused strike I can't really think of any other feats I aboslutely need. Cleaving finish would be nice. Maybe I'll spend my last 3 (2 from level, one from skald talent) on getting those in or something. They don't feel necessary though.

*Ok, that's a lie, he rides Bismuth. Not that it changes anything

As for the sneak attack damage....well...damage is damage is damage. Sure it might not seem like much, but it builds up.

 

[Average Manatee]

My minimum feats would be lingering, 2 or 3 rage powers, power attack, improved critical, lunge, combat reflexes, improved initiative, focused strike, outflank. More feats could go into something like cleaving finish, shatter defenses, back to back, dreadful carnage, blind fight, might be something I'm forgetting.

 

[Mauman]

My minimum feats would be lingering, 2 or 3 rage powers, power attack, improved critical, lunge, combat reflexes, improved initiative, focused strike, outflank. More feats could go into something like cleaving finish, shatter defenses, back to back, dreadful carnage, blind fight, might be something I'm forgetting.

Yeah, I don't use a fair amount of those.

Lunge - meh, I ride Bismuth.

Shatter defenses - not any more

Dreadful carnage - got a different character for that role.

Teamwork feats - as mentioned they're not useful how I use my Skald

Blind fight - echolocation eventually, earlier I just make due with lesser effects.

I'd like to fit in cleaving finish, but it never feels necessary. The other ones I have in my build.

 

[Average Manatee]

Lunge works on mounts just fine, better in fact due to how the area you can attack scales. Outflank is practically essential for melee characters, having your whole team attack on a crit is the strongest move in the game (then they crit and everyone attacks again and everything dies instantly). This is also what lunge helps with (and of course combat reflexes). I don't think I could really fit another 2 feats spent on rage powers.

 

[Desiderius]

Shatter is still fine to land iteratives/Haste attacks. Obv if playing TTT you get a guy with Mythic Shatter and you're good.

AoEs only have to force half of saves to miss if that to be good *especially* when passive (as with Archon's no action econ needed) so the Insult tacked onto Rage which you're going to have up at all times anyway is great.

The scaling ability boosts Initimidate *and* Bluff and Feint Feats are in game now, including Ranged Feint and Final Feint that leaves target flat-footed to all attax. Feint is Move action so can still cast and/or Demoralize.

You have *five* other characters + pets + summons to do damage. Let the Skald use Demoralize and Feint to help all your other toons connect. It's a 3/4 class with no other boosts everyone else isn't also getting. Animal Totem Rage Feats are meh - first one does nothng and Pounce is overrated if you don't have a swift teleport for positioning. All those Sneaks add up, and there's now a Talent that debuffs DEX on Sneak.

And for God's sake use that Shield Proficiency. Game has good Shields, new Shield Focus Mythics, and Shield Wall is a thing on the tank.

 

[Yosharian]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

Oh WOW that's a huge nerf

 

[Desiderius]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

Oh WOW that's a huge nerf

TTT has always been like that. More like rolling back the faceroll slightly.

 

[Average Manatee]

So Magic Fusion is pretty busted.

Don't need Best Jokes when you can make Hideous Laughter AoE at level 4. Ditto for Weird when you can just make Phantasmal Killer AoE at level 13. Then you can make it target whatever save you want it to to (though this only works on the initial application so its still a secondary fort save for PK and will for HL). Being able to select what school of magic the fusion uses also means easy abuse of spell focus feats. Also doubles up on damage spells.

"Peer Into" skills can inflict up to -6 to enemy saves for any save. With no save or spell resistance check. I'm not sure what the spell that says it affects touch AC does exactly. Touch AC isn't a form of AC, it's just a sum of several modifiers, so it doesn't seem... mechanically correct to have something that affects touch AC rather than a factor that goes INTO touch AC. But whatever. Then the last peer into spell reduces spell resistance by up to -10.

I'm unsure how saves work with fusion, if you fuse "peer into mind" to reduce enemy will saves and then fuse it with a will save spell, do they get to save to avoid the will save reduction? If so then you'd have to cast that first with a quickening rod. But since all your spells are fairly low level compared to a level 10 caster you're gonna have lots of those rods to spare.

Making touch attack spells into AoE seems to remove the need to succeed at an attack roll.

Also funny is making Feeblemind into a fort save vs. wiz/sorcs, who already take a -4 to save from the spell, then another -6 to save from peer into.

Downside is that you have basically no ability to buff your party or do any kind of support. It feels kind of like Kineticist in that you're gonna build to hit a specific level that lets you unlock one or two OP combos that you spam for 90% of the game.

 

[Desiderius]

So Magic Fusion is pretty busted.

Don't need Best Jokes when you can make Hideous Laughter AoE at level 4. Ditto for Weird when you can just make Phantasmal Killer AoE at level 13. Then you can make it target whatever save you want it to to (though this only works on the initial application so its still a secondary fort save for PK and will for HL). Being able to select what school of magic the fusion uses also means easy abuse of spell focus feats. Also doubles up on damage spells.

"Peer Into" skills can inflict up to -6 to enemy saves for any save. With no save or spell resistance check. I'm not sure what the spell that says it affects touch AC does exactly. Touch AC isn't a form of AC, it's just a sum of several modifiers, so it doesn't seem... mechanically correct to have something that affects touch AC rather than a factor that goes INTO touch AC. But whatever. Then the last peer into spell reduces spell resistance by up to -10.

I'm unsure how saves work with fusion, if you fuse "peer into mind" to reduce enemy will saves and then fuse it with a will save spell, do they get to save to avoid the will save reduction? If so then you'd have to cast that first with a quickening rod. But since all your spells are fairly low level compared to a level 10 caster you're gonna have lots of those rods to spare.

Making touch attack spells into AoE seems to remove the need to succeed at an attack roll.

Also funny is making Feeblemind into a fort save vs. wiz/sorcs, who already take a -4 to save from the spell, then another -6 to save from peer into.

Downside is that you have basically no ability to buff your party or do any kind of support. It feels kind of like Kineticist in that you're gonna build to hit a specific level that lets you unlock one or two OP combos that you spam for 90% of the game.

There are some *debuff* abilities along with the Time one that lets you give effective rests to recharge slots and abilities. The Capstone gives full rest midcombat once per.

Also have Spell Pen scaling by lvl on a couple of them (freeing up two feats and a mythic) and the Mask has a good ability at lvl 3 along with the Counterspell aura at 20.

Can easily just Demoralize and Dazzle until Final Feint unlocks at lvl 12, switching to that on bosses when not casting.

I’m not playing it yet because it’s got to be buggy as hell.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Implying that it will ever stop being buggy as hell.

 

[Desiderius]

Setting a up playthrough to test new classes, but LGrim, Deceiver, and Armored Battlemage* are nonbo with Inciter which is the one I really want to play with.

Already done Azata Skald MC caster so will probably full respec (with mod) Seelah into it and focus on tanking/Feint using the scaling bluff bonus along with Dazzling. Aru may work even better. Can slay some on easy fights.

Not many WIS-based Companions so going Griff Ranger Angel MC with heavy emphasis on protecting mount. Kin Sharpshooter Lann uses XBow so MC will handle Longbow.

Mantis Zealot is perfect fit with Skald using Daeran I think, with Cam on the Vamp Slayer? Has to be evil so no Greybor.

Next playthrough Keen Kitsune Nenio is good for two-weapon Living Grimoire using racial Pounce with Dimensional Hop, but may MC that for Azata casting boost. Ember as Armored Battlemage with Elven Curve Blade will be fun.

* - Battlemage was finally implemented for the first time so counts as a new class. Very smooth for a Magus from lvl 1.

 

[Desiderius]

Implying that it will ever stop being buggy as hell.

Armored Battlemage has finally stopped being buggy as hell yes.

Great class

 

[Average Manatee]

There are some *debuff* abilities along with the Time one that lets you give effective rests to recharge slots and abilities. The Capstone gives full rest midcombat once per.

Ehh, I think extra rests aren't really that important. You can pretty much rest as you please throughout 95% of the game, except for trying to min max chapter 1. It is cool that you get a rest-reset ability at level 4 though.

Also have Spell Pen scaling by lvl on a couple of them (freeing up two feats and a mythic) and the Mask has a good ability at lvl 3 along with the Counterspell aura at 20.

Mask seems pretty meh to me. Losing an equipment slot for fairly meh bonuses. The only great Razmri ability is the level 20 automatic counterspell once per round, which is basically a giant middle finger to Areelu. Everyone gets spell penetration scaling by ranks in whatever skill the subtype is specialized in.

The strongest option is probably Living Deity. Free pet and friend to animals is pretty good. Otherwise a lot of them have various bonuses to DC which is probably all you care about with this class.

I’m not playing it yet because it’s got to be buggy as hell.

It seems to be working fine so far.

 

[Desiderius]

Steam Guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3262599717

Tips:

• Having one spell in the fusion not effected by spell resistance makes the entire spell bypass spell resistance.
• Order does not matter when it comes to DC checks as the spell is one check.
• If saving throws are used make sure to use a spell school you are focused in for best saving throws. Though choosing a save that is much lower may also be beneficial.
• If both spells require an attack roll then the fused spell will also require one, where as if only one spell requires an attack roll it will not require one.

Not all paths get the scaling Spell Pen bonus.

Face is not a slot that has an overabundance of options. Not a big loss. +2 to Bluff is nice since that's a viable alternative action econ once Demoralize is no longer as good/necessary (Final Feint unlocks at lvl 12), +2 to initiative always good, Spell Resistance of lvl +12 when stacked with other sources can *really* get there. +2 DC at lvl 15, all in addition to the Counterspell at lvl 20.

Pets are whatever, can already get plenty of those, and Deceiver has no reason to ride it or abilities to boost it. Ancestors has some better buffs (with built-in Archmage Armor) and some of the ones that add effects to spells are probably a better fit. Do you get the Hexes?

Inventor is personal BFT, scaling UMD bonus is effectively use any item (including scrolls) with help from an item or two. Can Fused spells be scribed? The extra casts some paths get offsets the slow slot growth.

Charlatan is the equivalent of a base class. The scaling Concentration bonus is a nice Ease of Use feature. Don't need it often but when you need it you really need it. Good fit for touch/cone spells/abilities if you want it (lvl 1 ability gives Persuasion to UMD so can use scrolls if wanted), including those from Mythic Paths.

Celebrity abilities are no save or resistance, and do scale (-2 at lvl 5). Like Protective Luck but longer duration. Wonder if they work with Diva Style. Also wonder if the attack roll Malus works on the roll itself or the net value. Would be funny if it prevented critical threats!

 

[Average Manatee]

Very interesting about the spell penetration bypass, that doesn't sound intended.

Pets are whatever, can already get plenty of those, and Deceiver has no reason to ride it or abilities to boost it.

A pet is kind of whatever for magical deceiver since it's not going to do much in melee. But Friend to Animals is an absurdly good buff to a party with a number of pets. It's so good it practically justifies Daeran. +10-15 saves for pretty much the only weakness pets have is not something to miss. Plus you get it even earlier than he can, at level 4.

Face is not a slot that has an overabundance of options.

Kind of just annoying to miss out on an easy stat boost. I like base stats, and especially magic inventor.

Increasing your Caster Level will be a big boon towards your damage when you fuse 6th level spells. For example going from a 20d6/20d6 Chain Lightning/Fireball to a 31d6/31d6 Chain Lightning Fireball.

Interesting, I thought the level damage cap thing merely capped your damage. Here it sounds like it *unlocks* the cap for things like fireball that are normally capped at 10d6. If so then that's huge. Granted you can't maximize/empower/bolster which is a big drawback (do rods work?)

 

[Desiderius]

Face and head are different slots. By the time you hit the Mass Stat boost spells the Stat helmets are obsolete too. I usually use the single target spells for main stats long before that.

Pets failing saves is not something I lose much sleep over. Gotta prioritize. I've taken Nature Mystery on Daeran and still skip that Revelation. Indomitable Mount takes care of that without blowing a whole path.

I don't see anything about it lifting the usual damage cap on spells. If you're worried about DPS on Deceiver you're missing the whole point. Solo-brain again.

 

[Average Manatee]

Pets failing saves is not something I lose much sleep over. Gotta prioritize. I've taken Nature Mystery on Daeran and still skip that Revelation. Indomitable Mount takes care of that without blowing a whole path.

If you're riding the pet then the pet failing a will or reflex save can mean them falling over, or turning on you, your character being dismounted, possibly on the floor, taking multiple turns to fix both of those. I'd say pets failing a save is some of the worst saves you can fail. Even worse if your normally mounted character has generally poor AC (because they were mounted and don't care about AC) and gets instantly massacred either by enemies or the pet itself.

I don't see anything about it lifting the usual damage cap on spells. If you're worried about DPS on Deceiver you're missing the whole point. Solo-brain again.

I quoted the guide that said you can have a 31d6/31d6 Chain Lightning + Fireball.

I guess that's what this is supposed to mean:

If the effects applied by a fused spell have limits on the maximum number of damage dice, the fused spell receives the following limits instead:

Spell level 1 - up to 5 damage dice
Spell level 2 - up to 7 damage dice
Spell level 3 - up to 10 damage dice
Spell level 4 - up to 15 damage dice
Spell level 5 - up to 20 damage dice
Spell level 6 - unlimited damage dice

It's still kind of gimped as I said though. You're only getting 20 CL naturally since you can't merge with lich and you can't use metamagic except possibly a rod.

 

[Rhobar121]

They did it again and broke things from the first act that had been working well since launch.
Sosiel's first mission, during the fight with the necromancer, the script in which Sosiel kills the undead does not work, so you have to fight twice as many enemies as you should, which, considering that you start surrounded, is almost impossible without losses.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

They did it again and broke things

Owlcat tradition))

 

[Rhobar121]

It's good that there is a toybox - it's one of those situations where I have absolutely nothing against cheating.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

On a different note, any thoughts on the added Devil extra content? Tempted to do a replay for that, but dunno if it's good enough to warrant it.