Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Stoned Ape]

What about DLCs being bundled in with the console version? any news on that? and/or hands-on impressions of the console versions?

I also wonder whether we will get a free upgrade to the next gen version like some other games have done.

You're probably better off asking about the console version on the Owlcat forums rather than on here; I don't think many of the resident posters on this board are console gamers.

https://forum.owlcat.games/

 

[Polanski]

Where can I resurrect/change companions in the abyss? regill and camellia died during the playful darkness fight. And would really like them back asap. I just got to the abyss city.

Also just saw that camellia was supposed to ask me on a date in act 3, but since I had no open quests left continued to the midnight fane raid. Am I locked out of the rest of her romance now? then I would probably have to reload

 

[Stoned Ape]

Where can I resurrect/change companions in the abyss? regill and camellia died during the playful darkness fight. And would really like them back asap. I just got to the abyss city.

Also just saw that camellia was supposed to ask me on a date in act 3, but since I had no open quests left continued to the midnight fane raid. Am I locked out of the rest of her romance now? then I would probably have to reload

I don't know about the Camellia's romance, but there is a pretty thorough guide on Steam if you want one:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2633178275

You'll be able to change the party when you go back to the Nexus (the area with the rift back to the Fane) by taking a portal back from the city.

 

[Desiderius]

So, with the treasure islands DLC supposedly being released tomorrow does anyone have any plans for party composition?

I'm probably going to try:

LG Hasty Halfling Beastrider (Order of the Cockatrice, leopard companion) 3/Paladin 17
LN Human-Raised Half-Orc Cleric 20 (Erastil; Domains: Animal (horse)/Community)
N Human Rowdy 4/Deliverer 16 (Reach weapon, menacing combat style)
LN Blightborn Elf Freebooter 15/Fighter 5 (Menacing combat style, longbow)
N Tiefling Incense Synthesizer 20 (Crossbow)
NG Human Brownfur Transmuter 20 (Longspear)

C’mon man, if you’re playing Halfling Cav you’ve got to go Order of the Paw. It gives your Dog the AC of the Leopard with much higher CMB and not having to mess with Finesse, plus AoE save rerolls at lvl 2.

Racial specials are good. Each one a pretty unique experience. Likewise if you want a mounted Half-Orc play the Shaman.

You don’t have to twist yourself in knots and make 3.5 Frankenstein monsters to get what you want in this ruleset. Save all that mental energy for figuring out all the cool abilities you get instead. You’ll need it.

 

[Desiderius]

Animal Domain is (relatively) bad. Deliverer is insanely bad, especially with a splash (Slayer Talents are good, especially advanced ones, Diehard will get you killed, and Slayer of all classes doesn’t need another situational 2d6 in this setting), and Freebooter wants Improved Quarry (Free Action) and more and better high level Ranger casts than a random Fighter splash that does very little that Booter doesn’t already have covered.

Just looking at the Ranger Spells again and the Aspects are Polymorph spells so should turn on the Polymorph Mythic. Something to pick up after you've got the essentials. Bane is Move and Bond is precombat so when you add in Instant Enemy as Swift And Improved Quarry at Free you're stacking a ton of bonuses. Lifeblast doesn't bypass SR but Inspiring Recovery does so with some meta would give you a powerful Touch attack vs Playful and the like. On the other hand Lifeblast is AoE and doesn't require an attack at all.

 

[Stoned Ape]

C’mon man, if you’re playing Halfling Cav you’ve got to go Order of the Paw. It gives your Dog the AC of the Leopard with much higher CMB and not having to mess with Finesse, plus AoE save rerolls at lvl 2.

Racial specials are good. Each one a pretty unique experience. Likewise if you want a mounted Half-Orc play the Shaman.

You don’t have to twist yourself in knots and make 3.5 Frankenstein monsters to get what you want in this ruleset. Save all that mental energy for figuring out all the cool abilities you get instead. You’ll need it.

I've tried the Wildland Shaman out. It doesn't really fit for the role I want this character to do. I found that despite getting Barkskin (which the Alchemist and Ranger will both get anyway) the spell list is not as useful as the cleric's is for the role I want (only 1 cast of Magical Vestment at 3rd level for example, also no Divine Shield, Archon's Aura, Crusader's Edge, etc. etc.), the lack of domains is not compensated for by hex access, and channel energy is a big miss, especially if any shadows or undead waves turn up early.

I might take a Shaman as well as a Cleric/Oracle, but not instead of one. If I were to drop one character to fit in a Wildland Shaman, it would be the Incense Synthesizer and in that case I would reroll the Cleric into an Ecclesitheurge of Sarenrae or Gozreh. I kind of want to try the I.S. out though, getting an alchemical bonus+3 to hit/damage aura sounds pretty fun.

The Rowdy/Deliverer will not be taking much aggro as an enlarged 2nd-line Vital Striker; I ran Seelah as the same party role (but different classes) through a complete run and she didn't get much AI attention despite her relatively bad AC (most of it was taken by my archers or front line). I'm not going Rowdy for the extra sneak, I'm going for it for Vital Strike, Vital Force, and level 4 Debilitate. Could possibly go Vanguard instead of Deliverer for extra teamwork stuff though; will give it some thought.

I'm only grabbing 3 levels of Cav, the first before going Paladin then 2 more after Paladin level 11 (to get Shatter at level 13). I don't want to delay Mark of Justice any more than I absolutely have to. I would go Paladin 20 except I hate the thought of a halfling riding a horse.

Could do Freebooter 20 I suppose. I'd probably go Demonslayer if I were taking 20 levels of Ranger and grab Hunter's Bond instead, though.

 

[IllusiveBrian]

Has it been explained if in the roguelike mode there will be one MC with a full path and the rest are just companion mythic levels?

 

[Desiderius]

C’mon man, if you’re playing Halfling Cav you’ve got to go Order of the Paw. It gives your Dog the AC of the Leopard with much higher CMB and not having to mess with Finesse, plus AoE save rerolls at lvl 2.

Racial specials are good. Each one a pretty unique experience. Likewise if you want a mounted Half-Orc play the Shaman.

You don’t have to twist yourself in knots and make 3.5 Frankenstein monsters to get what you want in this ruleset. Save all that mental energy for figuring out all the cool abilities you get instead. You’ll need it.

I've tried the Wildland Shaman out. It doesn't really fit for the role I want this character to do. I found that despite getting Barkskin (which the Alchemist and Ranger will both get anyway) the spell list is not as useful as the cleric's is for the role I want (only 1 cast of Magical Vestment at 3rd level for example, also no Divine Shield, Archon's Aura, Crusader's Edge, etc. etc.), the lack of domains is not compensated for by hex access, and channel energy is a big miss, especially if any shadows or undead waves turn up early.

I might take a Shaman as well as a Cleric/Oracle, but not instead of one. If I were to drop one character to fit in a Wildland Shaman, it would be the Incense Synthesizer and in that case I would reroll the Cleric into an Ecclesitheurge of Sarenrae or Gozreh. I kind of want to try the I.S. out though, getting an alchemical bonus+3 to hit/damage aura sounds pretty fun.

The Rowdy/Deliverer will not be taking much aggro as an enlarged 2nd-line Vital Striker; I ran Seelah as the same party role (but different classes) through a complete run and she didn't get much AI attention despite her relatively bad AC (most of it was taken by my archers or front line). I'm not going Rowdy for the extra sneak, I'm going for it for Vital Strike, Vital Force, and level 4 Debilitate. Could possibly go Vanguard instead of Deliverer for extra teamwork stuff though; will give it some thought.

I'm only grabbing 3 levels of Cav, the first before going Paladin then 2 more after Paladin level 11 (to get Shatter at level 13). I don't want to delay Mark of Justice any more than I absolutely have to. I would go Paladin 20 except I hate the thought of a halfling riding a horse.

Could do Freebooter 20 I suppose. I'd probably go Demonslayer if I were taking 20 levels of Ranger and grab Hunter's Bond instead, though.

The Ranger's Barkskins are late (and you want those slots for Vitals or other Ranger unique spells) and you want to save Alchemist spells for Infusing Personal stuff. Shaman unlocks Barkskin at 3 while Alch doesn't get until 4.

Wildland trades Cam's Weapon Enchants for a (full!) pet and it gets Wandering Hex (and at level 16 two Wandering Hexes) that Cam doesn't which lets you go even deeper into Secret Metamagic (non-spontaneous class) and using a Hex on Dazzling.

An Orc Shaman can use Falchions which ends up really good to multiply all the Enlarge and Divine and Bane Effects Battle Spirit gets:



Those abilities free up a lot of spell slots and Divine Power scales up to +6/+6. Also lets you use your Mythics on Favorite Meta instead of Abundant. Not sure I'd bother mounting since you don't want to burn Feats on protecting your Mount (and you end up with Frightful at 15 which is no bueno with Mount) and I went for the Save/Lore Racial to keep Falchion (so can't really fit in Mobility). Iceplant and Medium Armor helps you survive better in melee, especially since you'll be Hexing/casting first round.

the spell list is not as useful as the cleric's is for the role I want (only 1 cast of Magical Vestment at 3rd level for example, also no Divine Shield, Archon's Aura, Crusader's Edge, etc. etc.), the lack of domains is not compensated for by hex access, and channel energy is a big miss, especially if any shadows or undead waves turn up early.

Shaman gets better Summons than either Cleric or Druid since it combines Animate Dead at lvl5 (spell level 3) which is the first good Summon with Lizards, Leopards, Manticores, and Smilos which all outclass what Cleric has going on.

I'd go Conj Focus into Augment Summoning early I think to set up Animate/Sinking Cloud/Cave Fangs/Creeping Doom then use the Mythic that lets you transfer Feats from one school to another to go Evo nuker/disabler late with Stormbolts, Firestorm, Surburst, and the Blinding Line thing. All three extra good vs Undead so no worries about losing Channeling since it's pretty weak unless you really work at it (Daeran with Mythic Channeling is pretty good for instance). All enhanced with Favorite Meta.

Didn't they fix Vestment? If you don't butcher your Pal with splashes it can cover that role eventually and not going straight to lvl 13 on Pal for Mark and Angelic, Greater makes no sense to me. Prot Evil is better than SoF until lvl 6 so Cleric has a marginal edge until Pal catches up at 9 then Angelic, Greater gives you +4 at lvl 13. At lvl 8 Shaman can Wander into Battle Ward for +4 at level 8! It's once per day but you can spam it on everybody and the things that need it most are the things least likely to get attacked to wear it down.

If you cared that much about Domains you wouldn't be pissing one away on the awful Animal. You're blowing one of your precious Domains (and a Feat!) to get what Wildland Shaman starts with for free!

Have you looked at what Shaman can do with Hexes? Free Dazzling (you like that so much you're splashing Cockatrice on another character), Iceplant (Nat AC is hard to get), Hampering Hex scales higher than Booter's Bane, Secret Meta. Your action econ only has room for one in-combat Hex at most but Hampering is a great one and Shaman has a ton of other good options.

 

[The_Mask]

I've beaten the first DLC today. It's... a... very mixed bag DLC. But I enjoyed it a lot, because I played an Aeon, and it was nice to have that perspective.

But I don't think the experience is the same with other paths. Anyone else have any angles on this?

 

[Desiderius]

The Rowdy/Deliverer will not be taking much aggro as an enlarged 2nd-line Vital Striker; I ran Seelah as the same party role (but different classes) through a complete run and she didn't get much AI attention despite her relatively bad AC (most of it was taken by my archers or front line). I'm not going Rowdy for the extra sneak, I'm going for it for Vital Strike, Vital Force, and level 4 Debilitate. Could possibly go Vanguard instead of Deliverer for extra teamwork stuff though; will give it some thought.

Well again if you want those things why not just play Rowdy all the way? They all just get better with more Rowdy levels instead of starting from scratch in a class that just gives you a lot of the stuff Rowdy does already. Truly don't get this.

I'm only grabbing 3 levels of Cav, the first before going Paladin then 2 more after Paladin level 11 (to get Shatter at level 13). I don't want to delay Mark of Justice any more than I absolutely have to. I would go Paladin 20 except I hate the thought of a halfling riding a horse.

Then... don't ride one. Halfling Pal sets up great to wade into battle on the ground with Cautious Defender and the better DEX you'd need for Shield Bash (eventually). Smites do a great job making up for the Maluses or and/or you can just Intimidate things once you're in the thick. Make sure to pick up UMD for Illusion Wands and Scrolls since you're high CHR. Halfling Luck + Divine Grace makes you good vs spells as well.

 

[Polanski]

Where can I resurrect/change companions in the abyss? regill and camellia died during the playful darkness fight. And would really like them back asap. I just got to the abyss city.

Also just saw that camellia was supposed to ask me on a date in act 3, but since I had no open quests left continued to the midnight fane raid. Am I locked out of the rest of her romance now? then I would probably have to reload

I don't know about the Camellia's romance, but there is a pretty thorough guide on Steam if you want one:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2633178275

You'll be able to change the party when you go back to the Nexus (the area with the rift back to the Fane) by taking a portal back from the city.

Thanks!

I had seen the Camellia Romance Guide, but I just had not gotten the date seen in chapter 3 before the attack on the midnight fane.

After googling quite a bit I finally found confirmation that the romance is indeed destroyed if you don't wait to get that scene triggered:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/qdswva/camellia_romance_guide/

Annoyed as fuck, now I have reload and redo hours of grinding the entire midnight fane, because the devs expect you to randomly wait for a month before progressing the game.

As much as I love this game, I am wondering if I will ever finish it or it will become a chore finishing as was the case with Kingmaker.

 

[ArchAngel]

Where can I resurrect/change companions in the abyss? regill and camellia died during the playful darkness fight. And would really like them back asap. I just got to the abyss city.

Also just saw that camellia was supposed to ask me on a date in act 3, but since I had no open quests left continued to the midnight fane raid. Am I locked out of the rest of her romance now? then I would probably have to reload

I don't know about the Camellia's romance, but there is a pretty thorough guide on Steam if you want one:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2633178275

You'll be able to change the party when you go back to the Nexus (the area with the rift back to the Fane) by taking a portal back from the city.

Thanks!

I had seen the Camellia Romance Guide, but I just had not gotten the date seen in chapter 3 before the attack on the midnight fane.

After googling quite a bit I finally found confirmation that the romance is indeed destroyed if you don't wait to get that scene triggered:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/qdswva/camellia_romance_guide/

Annoyed as fuck, now I have reload and redo hours of grinding the entire midnight fane, because the devs expect you to randomly wait for a month before progressing the game.

As much as I love this game, I am wondering if I will ever finish it or it will become a chore finishing as was the case with Kingmaker.

Or you can skip being a fag and not care about a stupid romance.

 

[Stoned Ape]

The Ranger's Barkskins are late (and you want those slots for Vitals or other Ranger unique spells) and you want to save Alchemist spells for Infusing Personal stuff. Shaman unlocks Barkskin at 3 while Alch doesn't get until 4.

Wildland trades Cam's Weapon Enchants for a (full!) pet and it gets Wandering Hex (and at level 16 two Wandering Hexes) that Cam doesn't which lets you go even deeper into Secret Metamagic (non-spontaneous class) and using a Hex on Dazzling.

An Orc Shaman can use Falchions which ends up really good to multiply all the Enlarge and Divine and Bane Effects Battle Spirit gets:

View attachment 27605

Those abilities free up a lot of spell slots and Divine Power scales up to +6/+6. Also lets you use your Mythics on Favorite Meta instead of Abundant. Not sure I'd bother mounting since you don't want to burn Feats on protecting your Mount (and you end up with Frightful at 15 which is no bueno with Mount) and I went for the Save/Lore Racial to keep Falchion (so can't really fit in Mobility). Iceplant and Medium Armor helps you survive better in melee, especially since you'll be Hexing/casting first round.

the spell list is not as useful as the cleric's is for the role I want (only 1 cast of Magical Vestment at 3rd level for example, also no Divine Shield, Archon's Aura, Crusader's Edge, etc. etc.), the lack of domains is not compensated for by hex access, and channel energy is a big miss, especially if any shadows or undead waves turn up early.

Shaman gets better Summons than either Cleric or Druid since it combines Animate Dead at lvl5 (spell level 3) which is the first good Summon with Lizards, Leopards, Manticores, and Smilos which all outclass what Cleric has going on.

I'd go Conj Focus into Augment Summoning early I think to set up Animate/Sinking Cloud/Cave Fangs/Creeping Doom then use the Mythic that lets you transfer Feats from one school to another to go Evo nuker/disabler late with Stormbolts, Firestorm, Surburst, and the Blinding Line thing. All three extra good vs Undead so no worries about losing Channeling since it's pretty weak unless you really work at it (Daeran with Mythic Channeling is pretty good for instance). All enhanced with Favorite Meta.

Didn't they fix Vestment? If you don't butcher your Pal with splashes it can cover that role eventually and not going straight to lvl 13 on Pal for Mark and Angelic, Greater makes no sense to me. Prot Evil is better than SoF until lvl 6 so Cleric has a marginal edge until Pal catches up at 9 then Angelic, Greater gives you +4 at lvl 13. At lvl 8 Shaman can Wander into Battle Ward for +4 at level 8! It's once per day but you can spam it on everybody and the things that need it most are the things least likely to get attacked to wear it down.

If you cared that much about Domains you wouldn't be pissing one away on the awful Animal. You're blowing one of your precious Domains (and a Feat!) to get what Wildland Shaman starts with for free!

Have you looked at what Shaman can do with Hexes? Free Dazzling (you like that so much you're splashing Cockatrice on another character), Iceplant (Nat AC is hard to get), Hampering Hex scales higher than Booter's Bane, Secret Meta. Your action econ only has room for one in-combat Hex at most but Hampering is a great one and Shaman has a ton of other good options.

You seem to be saying that the class is better off functioning as an enlarged second-rank striker and that it brings along a pet that it doesn't really need.

Also, the Orc subrace I want to use (human-raised) loses Orc Weapon Familiarity and Ferocity (because I hate Ferocity) so this wouldn't work with a falchion for me anyway.

I'm not really interested in summoning other than occasionally using skellies as a road bump. I don't really enjoy spam-summoning gameplay anyway, I had enough of that after playing BG1 with wands of monster summoning.

The more I'm reading, the more I'm sure that this class will not fulfill the role that my party needs for the second spot (someone who can ride a horse to engage targets with an attack after a long move action when needed).

I already have a character that I'm going to enlarge and strike with from the second rank (Rowdy/Slayer), and due to me also having a Brown Fur Transmuter in the party he'll be more effective at it than the Shaman (due to getting more combat related feats, Brown Fur buffs being more powerful, having a higher base AB, actually using a reach weapon, doing extreme damage with Vital Strike, etc).

The Shaman does bring some useful things to the table and I might possibly replace the alchemist with one, but it would probably be a base class version rather than a Wildlands Shaman as I only want 2 pets in the party, both of which will be used as mounts.

Alternatively, I could roll a horse-riding, 2-handed weapon wielding Magus for the cleric spot and replace the alchemist with an Ecclesitheurge.

I want the slayer levels on the Rowdy for higher AB and studied target. Rowdy is only mid-AB and can have problems landing hits, especially as it gets less personal benefit from debilitating injury for iteratives as it will normally be using Vital Strikes.

Paladin has very few spells slots and a horrible duration for their buffs, so it's going to be hard to keep up Protection from Evil on my front rank with one alone, and doesn't even start getting spells until 4th level. I want deflection buffs from 1st level. Also, I want two mounted characters in this party for tactical flexibility, suggesting that I make the halfling walk across the map really isn't going to fit with my plan.

 

[Jaedar]

So, with the treasure islands DLC supposedly being released tomorrow does anyone have any plans for party composition?

I don't even remember what the game is about.
More seriously I guess it depends on how difficult people say it is. I am wary of just needing to stack every buff on the tanky deeps (probably MC) again, or if it will actually be viable to have more hybridy type characters on the frontline. I kinda wanna try the supposedly very op demon kineticist build.

Kingmaker's secret ending is not that hard to get provided you already finished the game once.

The same thing is true for wrath.

Eh, it's not that easy either, there's a lot of checks that come from random investigates/dialogue options which you might just fast forward through on a second playthrough thinking they don't matter. At least in wrath, I don't know about kingmaker.

 

[ArchAngel]

All their DLC needed a few patches after release, I don't plan to get it right away. I am going to wait for patches and reviews.

 

[Sarathiour]

Eh, it's not that easy either, there's a lot of checks that come from random investigates/dialogue options which you might just fast forward through on a second playthrough thinking they don't matter.

It mostly revolve around investigating the crystal, and being somewhat nice to the one behind this scheme.

 

[Black_Willow]

Hello, today Cuckfinder gets some new Downloadable Cucktent! Hurray!

 

[Stoned Ape]

Hello, today Cuckfinder gets some new Downloadable Cucktent! Hurray!

Cuck, cuck Cuckcucker cucks cuck cuck Cuckcuckcuckable Cuckcuck! Cuck!

 

[user]

or another delay post to cuck you cucks even cucker

 

[ArchAngel]

Some of you should not be missing taking prescriptions from your psychiatrist..

 

[Desiderius]

The other subrace trades Ferocity for +1 all saves and +2 Nature Lore while keeping the Weapon familiarity (the main benefit of playing Half-Orc on a non-Martial). Why do you need Skilled? Sounds like you’re hyper concerned with very early game which Leopard + lvl 3 Barkskin + Iceplant all really help with. Does Shaman not get Prot Align? Cam does.

Since you’re starting late on your Slayer the Studied + full BAB isnt going to do much for awhile and as you’ve pointed out half the benefit from full BAB (faster iteratives) will be wasted in any case. Since Rowdy is always attacking at full AB the 3/4 is less of an issue and you’ve got a Booter and Alchemist to buff that a ton. Add in Hampering Hex and you shouldn’t have any issue at all, at least one that trashing your whole base class for a couple AB is going to solve.

because I hate Ferocity

Splashes Deliverer :facepalm:

Do people think that just letting classes develop seems too much like autoleveling?

Do they still think that the people writing the online guides that start the memes are the same people who used to write the GameFaqs?

 

[Desiderius]

The Halfling is Hasty already and can get Retreat from Alch (main reason to play it along with other Infused Personals), Transmuter has limited number of buffed Transmutations (especially with two pets draining all your resources!) so Shaman bringing their own is less of an issue.

Pal has good amount of slots with Abundant Casting and good enough duration by the time you get it (again if you’re not nerfing yourself with the 3.5 splashes).

I’m saying the Shaman is a better offensive caster than an Animal Domain Cleric because of Secret Meta but it also is much, much better early game as an attacker/tank (with full pet and Iceplant on Shaman) then gets to slay late (like Cleric) without needing any spell slots. Action econ is crowded but they’re all good.

 

[Stoned Ape]

The other subrace trades Ferocity for +1 all saves and +2 Nature Lore while keeping the Weapon familiarity (the main benefit of playing Half-Orc on a non-Martial). Why do you need Skilled? Sounds like you’re hyper concerned with very early game which Leopard + lvl 3 Barkskin + Iceplant all really help with. Does Shaman not get Prot Align? Cam does.

Since you’re starting late on your Slayer the Studied + full BAB isnt going to do much for awhile and as you’ve pointed out half the benefit from full BAB (faster iteratives) will be wasted in any case. Since Rowdy is always attacking at full AB the 3/4 is less of an issue and you’ve got a Booter and Alchemist to buff that a ton. Add in Hampering Hex and you shouldn’t have any issue at all, at least one that trashing your whole base class for a couple AB is going to solve.

because I hate Ferocity

Splashes Deliverer :facepalm:

The Slayer is not a front line fighter and is not going to be in a position to be targeted often, my two riders were going to be my front rank. I decided to go with Vanguard for the Rowdy/Slayer in the end, anyway. Studied on slayer is an immediate +1 at first level; Rowdy 4/Slayer 1 is BAB 4 (+1 studied) vs rowdy 5 BAB +3 which is a noticeable benefit. Things just get better from there.

Moving towards taking a Kitsune Arcane Rider and an Aasimar Ecclesitheurge rather than Human Cleric of Erastil and a Tiefling Incense Synthesizer.

Was trying to make sure every skill was adequately covered in the party and I needed the +1 point/level for human-raised (which meant I could dump Int to 7 on him and still pick up Perception and Knowledge: Religion with full skill ranks).

 

[Haplo]

Moving towards taking a Kitsune Arcane Rider (...)

 

[Desiderius]

The other subrace trades Ferocity for +1 all saves and +2 Nature Lore while keeping the Weapon familiarity (the main benefit of playing Half-Orc on a non-Martial). Why do you need Skilled? Sounds like you’re hyper concerned with very early game which Leopard + lvl 3 Barkskin + Iceplant all really help with. Does Shaman not get Prot Align? Cam does.

Since you’re starting late on your Slayer the Studied + full BAB isnt going to do much for awhile and as you’ve pointed out half the benefit from full BAB (faster iteratives) will be wasted in any case. Since Rowdy is always attacking at full AB the 3/4 is less of an issue and you’ve got a Booter and Alchemist to buff that a ton. Add in Hampering Hex and you shouldn’t have any issue at all, at least one that trashing your whole base class for a couple AB is going to solve.

because I hate Ferocity

Splashes Deliverer :facepalm:

The Slayer is not a front line fighter and is not going to be in a position to be targeted often, my two riders were going to be my front rank. I decided to go with Vanguard for the Rowdy/Slayer in the end, anyway. Studied on slayer is an immediate +1 at first level; Rowdy 4/Slayer 1 is BAB 4 (+1 studied) vs rowdy 5 BAB +3 which is a noticeable benefit. Things just get better from there.

Moving towards taking a Kitsune Arcane Rider and an Aasimar Ecclesitheurge rather than Human Cleric of Erastil and a Tiefling Incense Synthesizer.

Was trying to make sure every skill was adequately covered in the party and I needed the +1 point/level for human-raised (which meant I could dump Int to 7 on him and still pick up Perception and Knowledge: Religion with full skill ranks).

They… don’t get better from there since the Rowdy levels are now dead. You would have delayed getting the main benefits of the class for three/four lvls for a marginal benefit. Glad you saw the light. Rowdy is kind of a meme anyway since half the benefit of Debilitating is landing Rogue iteratives (Rogue gets much bigger benefit for itself) which Rowdy doesn’t use and it often hits so hard that Debilitating no longer matters. Alch can give Rowdy True Strike BTW.

The trick on Vanguard will be finding some way to buff Studied Target to make Vanguard’s Bond suck less, though I’d assume that Defensive Study should work with it so wouldn’t be awful.