Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Some info on Swift Pot Mythic (and using pots with Alch - thx Daidre or ArchAngel or whoever it was who pointed out you could do this):

Some testing on potion brewing and Alch usage

As with Nenio and scrolls main benefit is allowing Alch to use pots (with Infusion) from other classes with Enhanced/Extend Discovery, whether found, purchased, or Brewed. Aru comes with Brew Potions, and if you're not using her much you can give her the Mythic to get 4th level ones:



Note the rez. 90% of the value here is giving your Alch the rez, not sure how much Swift adds to it.

Here's Seelah's:



Not that great compared to what she can Scribe. Divine casters in general can give you all the Cure/Removes (such as Paralysis) in potion form. Nice to have situational stuff on hand to free up slots for routine spells. Speaking of which:



(Greater) Enduring Mythic works on your "spells" but not on your pots. They're not entirely spells even in your book because if you put Mirror Image for instance in your Alch book via Mystic Theurge it still doesn't let you Infuse it. It is confirmed to work with Enduring tho.



As for found pots Alch can do some pretty cool stuff. Turns this into +4 that lasts more than a day.



But you can really go off with a merc/companion back at the Citadel/Port who specializes in favorite meta whipping up pots for you (same even more so with Scrolls and Nenio, but no Infusion there). Encouraging Meta is from TTT I think. Note that you can make Quickened pots to get the effect of the Swift Mythic. I think I'd want Thrown (would be very good with rez pot) over Swift but who knows.



This is a Bard merc with Favorite Meta Quicken, Extend, and Encouraging making pots. Fun to play around with tho obviously more potent with Scribing. In either case you can Brew/Scribe higher level spells than you can cast if the spell is in your book and you have the kit.

If you don't feel like bothering with all that you get a ton of value just from being able to upgrade found pots with Enhance/Extend and using them with Infusion.

 

[Desiderius]

Who wanted to ask the developers about their bug fixing priorities?

They've already given me their answer. Vaporware DNE bugs. If they want to ignore their own forums and bug reporting tools I'm not much interested in kissing their ring on Reddit. (Owlcat permanently banned me from both Steam and Owlcat Forums without warning so I don't think I'd be welcome there anyway)

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Feyspeaker's fun to Theurge with. Maybe with Sylvan Sorc. Alchemist counts as Divine for Scroll Scribing purposes for some reason if you're bound to go INT it might work as well.

 

[The_Mask]

If we start asking Alex questions, things will degenerate real quick. Best we avoid that one.

 

[ArchAngel]

I plan to start a Mystic Theurge+loremaster walkthrough: Legend Path, wizard/oracle.
Now I am ready to use gestalt leveling if needed (and remove caster level restriction, because fuck this shit with level 20 restriction for classes, I wanted to play wizard 40), but I cannot decide between Seeker and Philosopher subclasses for Oracle. I decided for Wizard to go Spell Master, although I can be wrong.
Now important question is race (thinking about aasimar or human) and how exactly ability scores should be distributed at the start of the game, because character will be MAD (fucking insane, if you ask me).
Any suggestions?
Perhaps it sounds crazy and convoluted, but I just want to play Legend as proper caster.

You want to combine two classes that use same casting stat.

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Unless you are playing solo there is zero reason to make you main your skill monkey.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of Skald? From what I have seen it is just a shitty Bard. Inspire Rage is way shittier version of Inspire Courage that fucks up all your casters.

 

[Desiderius]

I plan to start a Mystic Theurge+loremaster walkthrough: Legend Path, wizard/oracle.
Now I am ready to use gestalt leveling if needed (and remove caster level restriction, because fuck this shit with level 20 restriction for classes, I wanted to play wizard 40), but I cannot decide between Seeker and Philosopher subclasses for Oracle. I decided for Wizard to go Spell Master, although I can be wrong.
Now important question is race (thinking about aasimar or human) and how exactly ability scores should be distributed at the start of the game, because character will be MAD (fucking insane, if you ask me).
Any suggestions?
Perhaps it sounds crazy and convoluted, but I just want to play Legend as proper caster.

You want to combine two classes that use same casting stat.

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Unless you are playing solo there is zero reason to make you main your skill monkey.

Gives you flexibility in party make-up and depending on your MC and its abilities (like Bardic Knowledge) it may be your best at certain skills. Legend getting 40 ranks also enters into the equation.

You can also play an INT-based Arcane Class for beating saves with a WIS-based Divine Class (even Ranger counts for this) for support. BFT20/Freebooter10/MT10 seems like it could be pretty good? I don’t have any experience with doing Legend casters tho so take with grain of salt.

You unlock Legend pretty late so need to have a plan for the other 7/8ths of the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of Skald? From what I have seen it is just a shitty Bard. Inspire Rage is way shittier version of Inspire Courage that fucks up all your casters.

Rage Powers mostly. I did Guarded Stance + Animal Totems for Unfair. Scales pretty hard for AoE AC + Pounce + Reflex.

Bonus Feat at start is handy. Scion shares TW Feats too. All your TW Feats, not just the ones you choose instead of Rage Powers (I didn’t choose any). Medium Armor Prof. Azata Skald was my main caster with Nenio just not using the Rage. Skald can cast thru Rage.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of Skald? From what I have seen it is just a shitty Bard. Inspire Rage is way shittier version of Inspire Courage that fucks up all your casters.

Rage Powers mostly. I did Guarded Stance + Animal Totems for Unfair. Scales pretty hard for AoE AC + Pounce + Reflex.

Bonus Feat at start is handy. Scion shares TW Feats too. All your TW Feats, not just the ones you choose instead of Rage Powers (I didn’t choose any). Medium Armor Prof. Azata Skald was my main caster with Nenio just not using the Rage. Skald can cast thru Rage.

That makes no sense, why then play Skald over Barbarian?

 

[ArchAngel]

I plan to start a Mystic Theurge+loremaster walkthrough: Legend Path, wizard/oracle.
Now I am ready to use gestalt leveling if needed (and remove caster level restriction, because fuck this shit with level 20 restriction for classes, I wanted to play wizard 40), but I cannot decide between Seeker and Philosopher subclasses for Oracle. I decided for Wizard to go Spell Master, although I can be wrong.
Now important question is race (thinking about aasimar or human) and how exactly ability scores should be distributed at the start of the game, because character will be MAD (fucking insane, if you ask me).
Any suggestions?
Perhaps it sounds crazy and convoluted, but I just want to play Legend as proper caster.

You want to combine two classes that use same casting stat.

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Unless you are playing solo there is zero reason to make you main your skill monkey.

Gives you flexibility in party make-up and depending on your MC and its abilities (like Bardic Knowledge) it may be your best at certain skills. Legend getting 40 ranks also enters into the equation.

You can also play an INT-based Arcane Class for beating saves with a WIS-based Divine Class (even Ranger counts for this) for support. BFT20/Freebooter10/MT10 seems like it could be pretty good? I don’t have any experience with doing Legend casters tho so take with grain of salt.

You unlock Legend pretty late so need to have a plan for the other 7/8ths of the game.

You don't need 40 base skill points and you are not going to combine ranger with MT that has wizard level BAB.

 

[Yosharian]

Benefits of Skald Inspire Rage when fully kitted out and itemized correctly (on every affected party member, and at level 20 obviously):

+6 NA AC bonus
+11 AB & +5 DMG to melee attackers
(Extra +6 to confirm crits)
(Extra +1/+1 if using Demonic Resentment helm)
8 DR/-
Pounce
+1 crit multiplier for melee attackers
Sickened/Nauseated immunity
+6 Untyped bonus to Will saves
Extra Haste effect, the bonuses of which stack with Haste

It should be pretty obvious from this why every party with significant melee presence really wants a Skald

 

[Desiderius]

I plan to start a Mystic Theurge+loremaster walkthrough: Legend Path, wizard/oracle.
Now I am ready to use gestalt leveling if needed (and remove caster level restriction, because fuck this shit with level 20 restriction for classes, I wanted to play wizard 40), but I cannot decide between Seeker and Philosopher subclasses for Oracle. I decided for Wizard to go Spell Master, although I can be wrong.
Now important question is race (thinking about aasimar or human) and how exactly ability scores should be distributed at the start of the game, because character will be MAD (fucking insane, if you ask me).
Any suggestions?
Perhaps it sounds crazy and convoluted, but I just want to play Legend as proper caster.

You want to combine two classes that use same casting stat.

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Unless you are playing solo there is zero reason to make you main your skill monkey.

Gives you flexibility in party make-up and depending on your MC and its abilities (like Bardic Knowledge) it may be your best at certain skills. Legend getting 40 ranks also enters into the equation.

You can also play an INT-based Arcane Class for beating saves with a WIS-based Divine Class (even Ranger counts for this) for support. BFT20/Freebooter10/MT10 seems like it could be pretty good? I don’t have any experience with doing Legend casters tho so take with grain of salt.

You unlock Legend pretty late so need to have a plan for the other 7/8ths of the game.

You don't need 40 base skill points and you are not going to combine ranger with MT that has wizard level BAB.

Depends what you’re trying to do (what checks you need to beat). Legend has 40 lvls of BAB so even with Wiz lvls that adds up.

I did melee BFT in Alpha (you got extra +2 from Size, Poly, and Enhance each, not sure if that still works) and Natural attacks don’t care (much) about BAB because no iteratives (depending on Form).

 

[Desiderius]

Benefits of Skald Inspire Rage when fully kitted out and itemized correctly (on every affected party member, and at level 20 obviously):

+6 NA AC bonus
+11 AB & +5 DMG to melee attackers
(Extra +6 to confirm crits)
8 DR/-
Pounce
+1 crit multiplier for melee attackers
Sickened/Nauseated immunity
+6 Untyped bonus to Will saves
Extra Haste effect, the bonuses of which stack with Haste

It should be pretty obvious from this why every party with significant melee presence really wants a Skald

Guarded Stance flips that AB around to AC, Reflex Saves, and Crit Confirm/Ranged Defense.

 

[LannTheStupid]

My question is to the lowest of the low - to the tabletoppers.
I read this on Reddit in the topic about Elemental Barrage:

It should by raw

Now, could someone point me to the written (as in "w") and sold (as PnP books) source that describes "Elemental Barrage"? I am of the opinion that this is one of the many home brewed Owlcat features. However, I am OK with having been proved wrong.

 

[Acrux]

My question is to the lowest of the low - to the tabletoppers.
I read this on Reddit in the topic about Elemental Barrage:

It should by raw

Now, could someone point me to the written (as in "w") and sold (as PnP books) source that describes "Elemental Barrage"? I am of the opinion that this is one of the many home brewed Owlcat features. However, I am OK with having been proved wrong.

It's Owlcat's, unless it's in some extremely obscure 3rd party splatbook.

There IS a Mythic spell called Elemental Bombardment, but it's completely different (throwing elementals at enemies).
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternativ...ic-magic/mythic-spells/elemental-bombardment/

 

[Daidre]

It should be pretty obvious from this why every party with significant melee presence really wants a Skald

And not just melee. Skald shares any barbarian Stance, and Reckless Stance's +Attack bonus is untyped (Stacks with literally everything), affects archers and applied TWICE via Inspire Ferocity rage power. It kills off AC with humongous penalty, but who cares, switch "Accept Rage" off on things whose AC matters or who needs to cast in this round on the fly. That is up to +2-12 AB untyped even before items (there are some in main campaign) and extra melee only +AB on Rage itself. This alone is often enough to compensate AB deficit between Hard and Unfair. And it kinda makes proper Bards obsolete.

PS Sharing stance powers is not correct implementation of the class, in Kingmaker's mod with this class only Inspire Ferocity power was applying party-wide as per PnP. But even in "correct" version it is still untyped vs competence bonus from Bard and it scales faster. So bard still obsolete even if they nerf. Also, sharing totem and generic powers is a correct implementation, and those are numerous with Animal Totem already mentioned.

 

[Desiderius]

Finally played Amiri straight Barb in last P:K run and Ferocity was great on Ranged where it's most needed. Good call. If it's double-stacking with Reckless on Skald that's pretty stupid. Biggest difference for me between Hard and Unfair was regular mobs being much more dangerous on Unfair so the AoE AC from Guarded (along with Reg Aura/Domain eventually) was welcome and could still hit regular mobs fine by Ch2 then could use shenanigans on bosses.

 

[Yosharian]

Yup. Absurd class

 

[Daidre]

Checking it mod-clean would be a huge pain for me, but I can say for sure that Metal Curse hex is not working in my current modded game.

Spoiler

 

[Stoned Ape]

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of Skald? From what I have seen it is just a shitty Bard. Inspire Rage is way shittier version of Inspire Courage that fucks up all your casters.

Skald is great, but takes a bit longer to shine than a Bard does (by 11th level it's much better).

Just reject rage on anyone you want to cast spells with.

 

[ArchAngel]

Benefits of Skald Inspire Rage when fully kitted out and itemized correctly (on every affected party member, and at level 20 obviously):

+6 NA AC bonus
+11 AB & +5 DMG to melee attackers
(Extra +6 to confirm crits)
(Extra +1/+1 if using Demonic Resentment helm)
8 DR/-
Pounce
+1 crit multiplier for melee attackers
Sickened/Nauseated immunity
+6 Untyped bonus to Will saves
Extra Haste effect, the bonuses of which stack with Haste

It should be pretty obvious from this why every party with significant melee presence really wants a Skald

And blocks all spells. You will have at least one divine and arcane caster so that is two less and you cannot have any characters with any spells like inquisitors, magus and such.

And since barbarian is logical add to this party I assume his main rage bonuses don't add up
Unless I am building some melee focused party (and weaker as a result) seems very subpar compared to Bard.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of Skald? From what I have seen it is just a shitty Bard. Inspire Rage is way shittier version of Inspire Courage that fucks up all your casters.

Skald is great, but takes a bit longer to shine than a Bard does (by 11th level it's much better).

Just reject rage on anyone you want to cast spells with.

In my current ray party bard song helps everyone and rays are main damage dealers for casters.

 

[Daidre]

And blocks all spells. You will have at least one divine and arcane caster so that is two less and you cannot have any characters with any spells like inquisitors, magus and such.

You can switch off Accept Rage and Cast the spell literally in the same round in TB. I need to test it, but you can probably Switch off, cast spell and switch it back on in the same round now. Proper Ray casters is only niche where it does not work, but even Kineticist is better off with Skald. Magi affected too, but spellstrike is such a sham more often than not.

Imho, ray-casters as all other offensive caster got a short end of the stick in rogue-like, low-rest environment when the mode at its hardest and their itemization is practically non-existent. Well, I had a party once where 4d6 Scorching Ray and Magic Missile were my best weapons against 30 AC monk miniboss on the first expedition, but now I try to prepare for such possibility.

 

[ArchAngel]

And blocks all spells. You will have at least one divine and arcane caster so that is two less and you cannot have any characters with any spells like inquisitors, magus and such.

You can switch off Accept Rage and Cast the spell literally in the same round in TB. I need to test it, but you can probably Switch off, cast spell and switch it back on in the same round now. Proper Ray casters is only niche where it does not work, but even Kineticist is better off with Skald. Magi affected too, but spellstrike is such a sham more often than not.

Imho, ray-casters as all other offensive caster got a short end of the stick in rogue-like, low-rest environment when the mode at its hardest and their itemization is practically non-existent. Well, I had a party once where 4d6 Scorching Ray and Magic Missile were my best weapons against 30 AC monk miniboss on the first expedition, but now I try to prepare for such possibility.

If you turn off accept rage and get rage bonus then it should still disable casting or you don't get rage bonus and get no bonus. Also rage bonus does not help with casting. I still don't get what you are trying to sell here :D
Sure Skald seems to be very niche class for very specific party builds, I don't understand why it is a whole class instead of just a subclass of Bard.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

I plan to start a Mystic Theurge+loremaster walkthrough: Legend Path, wizard/oracle.
Now I am ready to use gestalt leveling if needed (and remove caster level restriction, because fuck this shit with level 20 restriction for classes, I wanted to play wizard 40), but I cannot decide between Seeker and Philosopher subclasses for Oracle. I decided for Wizard to go Spell Master, although I can be wrong.
Now important question is race (thinking about aasimar or human) and how exactly ability scores should be distributed at the start of the game, because character will be MAD (fucking insane, if you ask me).
Any suggestions?
Perhaps it sounds crazy and convoluted, but I just want to play Legend as proper caster.

You want to combine two classes that use same casting stat.

There little problem with this - there no divine caster who uses Int as stat for casting (No occultist class or that one Inquisitor sub-class, Holic hasn't made a mod for WOTR). And why I want Int and not Char or Wis? Skills and also there plenty Char casters. And I decided against Wis caster because I have no inspiration to play one as right now. Damn this class level limit, otherwise I would be playing a single class caster.

Unless you are playing solo there is zero reason to make you main your skill monkey.

Gives you flexibility in party make-up and depending on your MC and its abilities (like Bardic Knowledge) it may be your best at certain skills. Legend getting 40 ranks also enters into the equation.

You can also play an INT-based Arcane Class for beating saves with a WIS-based Divine Class (even Ranger counts for this) for support. BFT20/Freebooter10/MT10 seems like it could be pretty good? I don’t have any experience with doing Legend casters tho so take with grain of salt.

You unlock Legend pretty late so need to have a plan for the other 7/8ths of the game.

Thanks for answers and suggestions.

 

[Daidre]

Sure Skald seems to be very niche class for very specific party builds

No, what I am trying to say is that Bard is very niche class who gives often useless competence bonus in a quite minor quantities and who is only good for low bab ray-casters and some rare spell-like abilities users.

Everyone else better off with Skald.