Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Lambach]

Our local mentally handicapped autist seems a wee bit upset about getting called out on all of his ridiculous bullshit, it seems to me.

 

[Lambach]

Swift pots isn’t something I’ve looked at yet.

It seems like there are quite a few things you "haven't looked at yet" or have similar excuses for. Almost as if you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about and you're just trying to blow smoke up our collective ass in order to..... I dunno, make yourself look smarter on this obscure video-game Forum? Literally why? Why do you insist on being not only completely fucking retarded, but also stubbornly refusing to admit you were completely fucking retarded, even though all evidence and everyone with a pulse points towards you and says: "Hey, you! Yes, you! You're completely fucking retarded!"

?

 

[Desiderius]

Lol my bad I’m pretty sure it didn’t work for me either but I forgot. Been awhile and Cam doesn’t stick around long for me. You got me. Life is pretty good tho and I’ve got a couple pics on Hard I can post when I get home illustrating it if you want.

Last two pics I posted here are on Easy fast forwarding to unlock content I already paid for, so you can bite that big fat ankle too if it amuses you.

But you know Daidre that I spammed P:K forum with Unfair-only pics for two years so it really doesn’t do anyone any good to go along with the delusions of the butthurt brigade here.

 

[Lambach]

You got me. Life is pretty good tho and I’ve got a couple pics on Hard I can post when I get home illustrating it if you want.

Hey, you know, I genuinely wish that your good life continues for you as long as possible and you enjoy everything it has to offer and then some.

That said, how about you just go on and enjoy your good life instead of pretending to be an expert on things Pathfinder-related, hm? Because, as we've seen, that you are clearly not.

 

[Desiderius]

I posted the Frost Spirit pic offing Devarra already and as for wasted Spirit slots I’ve also got one of killing Unfair Maugla with Thorn Body + False Life (both). Big benefit of Second Spirit is giving you two options for those slots (like Resto from Life) for different situations. Extend Meta is also good to get the most out of them. Vestment doesn’t stack now so that gets worse.

And yeah I’m pretty sure I’m the only one whose put Life Spirit on Cam or taken her Winter Witch. Would be overjoyed to be wrong about that.

 

[Desiderius]

You got me. Life is pretty good tho and I’ve got a couple pics on Hard I can post when I get home illustrating it if you want.

Hey, you know, I genuinely wish that your good life continues for you as long as possible and you enjoy everything it has to offer and then some.

That said, how about you just go on and enjoy your good life instead of pretending to be an expert on things Pathfinder-related, hm? Because, as we've seen, that you are clearly not.

Life Spirit you imbecile.

 

[LannTheStupid]

"Hey, you! Yes, you! You're completely fucking retarded!"

Where do the heads in the main hero's chest come from?

 

[Lambach]

Where do the heads in the main hero's chest come from?

"The Other". Great plot hook, absolutely terrible resolution that just whiffed away.

 

[Desiderius]

Digging thru the screenshots, some retardation for your edification:

Get ready to scroll

As Daidre noted I've played mostly Core w/ some Hard in Wrath for reasons I've gone into but I did do an Unfair run while I was off of all forums with Azata Battle Scion MC which was a massive pain in the ass. I also occasionally kicked it up to Unfair to see what how my Core/Hard teams would do there. I think this is one of the tough fights in AreeSu's Lab with Student of Stone Aeon MC. Here Enlarged Lann with Bless Weapon cashes in a crit but you can see whole team holding their own.

Not sure if this is same fight or what. MC took damage from Thorn Body on Mythic dude. I think the Stun is from Stunning Fist from Student MC? Everybody doing steady damage on Unfair.

Sos getting an AoO crit in while healing team with help from his Domain abilities. Trip from Style Strike on MC.

The other fight with QStaff Master Angel MC I think. Could be Core but similar performance to previous pic.

From Beta Minagho fight Unfair. I think MC Reformed Fiend Aeon may have had the True Strike autocast from Rage. Survived the crit miss and took her down.

Siabre Unfair with Oracle Angel MC and Bard Merc. Lann's Mount here I think. The extra damage packets are Leading Strike.

Sos stepping up in boss fight with help from Angel MC. Can see Mount whiffing at first. Maybe Freedom bypassing Seamantle on Sos? A Dispel in there?

Merged Oracle Angel unleashing a Tsunami. Poor Bard merc trying to tank. Illusion Magic won't hold out long. Did get there with his Hold Monster tho.

From testing on Barrage Eldritch Archer to give you an idea what that can do. Daidre is right that EA takes awhile to get there, but that's the case with any Barrage build. Once it does it spits damage everywhere.

Sure it's a crit but that's what 15-20 crit range is for. This is only Core tho. Tough to hit on Unfair without Shatter and tough to get Shatter on her for this fight so have to take a different tack. Barrage wouldn't help with that.

Also Core sure but hardly retarded. Lann and Aru consistently pouring on the damage at this point.

Likewise. Plenty of cushion for higher difficulties.

Bane of Spirit useful vs The Other

 

[Desiderius]

Obviously, when I am asking for a build it means that I do not want to think about it. No amount of your inspiring speeches can sway me if I want a ready-to-use answer which I don't want to look for myself.

Cam Second Spirits broken down:

Five Second Spirits

Free Shocking weapon at 11 good with (old) Barrage, some decent Spirit spells (although lvl five will require some help (Secret Hex Extend can fix), Vortex Spells probably won't come up since you don't have many Rays, Air Barrier OK but you've got Medium Armor Proficiency already, Wind Ward pretty damn good at lvl 16.

Overall probably not worth it, but I know you guys love casting those Siroccos.

Free Thundering Weapon at 11 and Full Pet at 16, tho that's pretty late. The Diehard thing could get you killed and the spells aren't great. 80% sure Entangling Curse does work but Weak effect + negated on Save isn't great. Entangle is underrated but only when automatic (Waves has an automatic effect but only triggered by Cold damage).

Cam has decent CHR and can boost with equipment or can use Phylactery. Solid supplemental healing but not scaring any undead. Can confirm that the Religion Lore bonus (which is pretty good since it's a class skill) does *NOT* work yet. Note that the Healing part is unlimited use.

Quick Healing very nice and big benefit is having Resto, Breath, Heal, Resto, Greater, and Mass Heal always up as needed and early since she's fastest spell progression. Fills in weak Battle Spirit slots nicely.

Free Frost Weapon no longer good with Barrage nerf. Note that Frigid Blast is AoE and 1d6 per level, DC scales by level so not great but not awful. Splinter not good. Smilo Form with Battle Spirit stuff? Who knows? Could be decent?

Main thing you do here is Meta the Snowballs with Secret Hex and Favorable Meta to assassinate Devarra if you're letting Cam die. Also decent thing to do with ranged Cam but ranged Cam is probably unplayable now without weapon Barrage. It needed it since no DEX-to-damage or Crusader's Edge compared to melee Cam.

Does unlock Winter Witch but Winter Witch also bad for now since unpreventable damage doesn't get Meta.

Another case of "if it were working." Metal Curse is scaling and no save. Free Greater Trip seems pretty good too. Spells and abilities nothing to write home about tho.

All in all a mixed bag. Fire is probably also playable along with the late Fire spells Shaman already gets. The Hex is a vulnerability thing. I'd recommend loading a late save (I don't have any with Cam alive lol) to test what's working before trying to play one but a lot there if you do.

 

[LannTheStupid]

That is... actually, quite enlightening. Now I wonder if a metal (Earth+Earth) Kinetic blade is considered magnetic enough for the Metal Curse to work. And because Camellia is forever with me we can even do something about tripping using teamwork feats.

Surely, with 95% probability a metal Kinetic blade is not "constructed primarily of metal" in Owlcat feat interactions, and an attempt to trip from Camellia means no other attacks in the round. However, it's worth checking.

See, Desiderius ? Sometimes you can!

 

[Desiderius]

It’s much more likely the case that they just haven’t gotten around to implementing it yet. You’d have a pretty crowded action econ with that *and* Hampering Hex but when you need to shave off 12 AC no save you gotta do what you gotta do.

Clowns said the same thing about me when I was playing Necropotence and Stoneforge Mystic as soon as they were released. People come around eventually.

 

[Desiderius]

Looking at the Mythics:

More good ones than you could ever fit in one playthrough

There's a mix here of Vanilla and TTT/Dark Codex (use the ModFinder Mod to manage your mods and keep them up to date. Very easy and highly recommended, tho I'm only using about half of them. You've got your choice.) and I know some people prefer Vanilla so I'll try to evaluate them separately.

And some of the Vanilla ones have been modified, as with Ascendant Summons. Combine this with Augment Summons and you've got a force on your hands.

Vanilla:

Last Stand: pretty much mandatory for Unfair, highly recommended for Hard. Taking this first relieves a lot of headaches but adds 1/2 a difficulty level itself because you're missing your first Mythic. Much more satisfying to do that tho than having to deal with Unfair double damage nat 20s all game.

Inspirational Leader: best scaling Mythic bar none, but only need on one character. I usually try to put on a non-caster and not really needed until M3 or M4 but after that it's amazing, for all three modes.

Ever Ready: highly underrated for any group that generates AoOs, typically via Trips (melee-heavy)/Outflank crit-chains or Fear effects (ranged). I've also gotten a lot with Disarms (Maraliths FTW). Saves a Feat on Combat Reflexes and both AB and Damage bonuses really add up fast. Mythics that add AB + Damage > just Damage in most cases.

Modded:

Barrage: this is what TTT has had for awhile. Guessing this is what Owlcat implemented? Needs a spell to apply the mark, but anything can cash it.

Armor Master: Armor Training for classes that don't get it. Except for the speed. Good for Mounted Pals to get their Mobility to a decent level I guess. Cavs get a special ability that bypasses penalty to Mobility from Heavy. Niche mostly although maybe can do something with the Arcane side?

Armored Might: Archmage for Armored classes. Game changer. Once you have this Armor Master starts looking a lot better.

Vanilla:

Leading Strike: RTwP only but really good there since you interlace attacks and it triggers all over the place and also on Outflank crit-chains. Favorite for Reg.

Rupture Restraints/Unstoppable: Very good if you're playing limited reloads to prevent wipes. I started out liking Rupture since it deals with more things but there are mobs that spam Shaken that can burn through your activations. Still probably better if you've got Seelah to give Fear Immunity. Otherwise Unstoppable is probably lower maintenance.

Modded:

Limitless x: there are two versions of these, and they have them for about every class that has a resource pool. The more powerful ones require two Mythics (or a Mythic and a Feat) while things like the Warpriest one only take one. If your class has one of these features you want to grab it ASAP since the earlier you get it the better they are (unlike most scaling Mythics).

Vanilla:

Ranging Shots: the modded version here doesn't go back down on hits but that doesn't come up much when you need it since the problem it helps solve is missing. Since Ranged doesn't get to Flank, Outflank, or Crusader's Edge it's down 6 compared to melee and this comes up a lot (especially since the strength of Ranged is all the full attacks it gets so you're trying to land iteratives more often and fighting through the Rapid malus as well). Since it's capped by Mythic Rank you can wait on it but I try to pick it up on all Ranged characters by Mythic 4 so I can have it in time for Blackwater/Fane etc...

Abundant Bane: if you're going low rest Bane is going to be tough to keep up much but if you take the rests they give you this should tide you over for most tough fights. Obv much better for Aeon. Cam gets Bane Weapon at lvl 8 so something to keep in mind for her. Another + AB/damage Mythic.

Mythic Charge: if you're Pouncing like Haplo this could be good. Would have to consult the master on this one. Never used it.

Mythical Beast: modded adds Ghost Touch which makes this good earlier than usual. DR bypass OK I guess but with Relic plus multiple attack modes of Natural Attacks not that big of a deal. Something you'll want to pick up once it scales to 4 or maybe 6.

The Bigger They Are: I've tried this and I think it's just too niche. Good vs Wurms and Dragons but not things like Playful.

Second Mystery: even better than Second Spirit as long as you're playing an Archetype with enough Revelations to take advantage of it. I've been Mounting up Daeran ASAP with Nature (also gives him Barkskins) and been very happy with it. Battle and Ancestors also been very solid.

Modded:

Cursing Gaze: There's also one that removes the once per 24 hr restriction on Hexes so tough choice. This one can really unclog your action econ so definitely worth a look.

Vanilla:

Everlasting Judgement: completely changes the way Inquisitor plays. Judgements are really good and kick up to even better at lvl 10. Almost a must have, especially if you're low rest which would otherwise make the class almost unplayable since it relies so heavily on Bane Weapon, Judgments, and rnd/lvl spells.

Cleaving Shot: main reason to have Ranged characters in the first place and to put in the effort to up their crits. Even without the crits they're often finishing off stragglers making the AoE trigger OFTEN.

Distracting Shots: this stacks with itself so if you have a ranged character with high AB (like two Axe Wend) and a lot of attacks you can really go off. I try to get all three Ranged Mythics on Ranged characters since they all solve problems that Ranged parties typically confront. It's not quite as good as it looks since Ranged typically has lower AB than melee but once you have this it makes things like advantage effects on ranged attacks force multipliers.

Modded:

That should be the Mythic that removes the 24 hr limit on Hexes that I mentioned before. Another couple examples of the Limitless Mythics. Incense will be particularly good once they implement that class since it doesn't get Lingering. Limitless Arcane Pool of course is just absurd.

EDIT: somehow I left off Instill Vigor (the one that gives AoE Mythic Bonus if you damage your own team). It's worth unlocking on one character.

I need to fill all 5 Mythic Abilities with something not completely useless on the non-spellcasting melees.

See above. How many non-spellcasting melees do you have tho? I have trouble fitting in one if my MC isn't one. Greybor has Defensive Study and Reg Domain Zealot (Trevel/Nobility or both) and it's the perfect place to put Inspirational Leader. At your difficulties don't you want Last Stand as well? Ever Ready is better on two-handers but it isn't exactly bad for them. Mods give you additional choices. Greybor and Regill:

Which one don't you like?

Tried to stay Vanilla (modded there's all kinds of good stuff) but ended up with the Mythic Shatter on Greybor. He gets Uncanny Dodge from Slayer Talents while Reg doesn't so Reg has use for Mythic Initiative with his DEX. Leading Strike is a motivator to play RTwP with either one.

 

[Yosharian]

All of that, actually, begs the question: I was going to build Camellia as an Elemental Barrage master; now what is the best (if any) second spirit for a melee Spirit Hunter with a rapier? Will it be Air? Or is it better to forget about the second spirit and concentrate on crits from the rapier and Abundant Casting for more buffs and Magical Vestments?

She can't slot her Spirit's spells into her ordinary spell slots anyway, so she can't have more than one Magical Vestment, but she can get the second cast of Magical Vestment from restoring it with Object Bond.
Air is my choice too for Air Barrier and one Hex that gives 50% miss chance for range attacks. Nature is nice for pet (too late) and 1d6 sound, that is least resisted element. Anyway, she is lvl 1 and got excellent DEX, so multiclassing her is always an option. And she is still one, if not the most, competent tank with Hexes and High Crit Range weapon even if she stays a pure shaman.

Well, as some people have already mentioned, I have a huge dilemma too each time when I need to fill all 5 Mythic Abilities with something not completely useless on the non-spellcasting melees.

I'm probably still going to stick with Stone, Metal Curse is just too good to skip. Air Barrier is nice but you can just have your arcane buffer cast Displacement on her then cast Mind Blank for the same effect, albeit short duration until you get 24h Enduring

Metal Curse is up to -6 AC with no save on a standard action, infinite uses. Pretty good.

The one thing that is causing me to consider Air, though, is that I'm generally quite lazy and may end up just never being bothered to cast Metal Curse

Edit: wait you're saying Metal Curse doesn't actually work?

 

[perfectslumbers]

Wtf they killed elemental barrage how am I gonna cheese unfair when EE comes out now

 

[Haplo]

Tl;DR, if you want actually worthwhile advice, ask Haplo for it and tell Desiderius to suck your dick.

I mean that's a bit harsh. Desi knows the game well and his focus (sometimes edging on fixation) on less commonly known and sometimes even a bit exotic mechanics/abilities leads to some nice discoveries.

I guess its just that he has strong opinions about various things and sometimes likes to criticize power-gaming choices that just work, that can make him a little off-putting to some.
But I for one enjoy his company here. These threads would be much less interesting and colorfull without him.

 

[Daidre]

Most elusive boss of DLC 3.

We have met at last

Only my Mutation Warrior was able to scratch it with Sensei Advice, but Angel's Bolt of Justice + Rod

Spoiler

Were blowing her up twice per round for 547 damage. Boss died before Last Stand had run out on my Monk.

 

[ArchAngel]

Most elusive boss of DLC 3.

We have met at last

Only my Mutation Warrior was able to scratch it with Sensei Advice, but Angel's Bolt of Justice + Rod

Spoiler

Were blowing her up twice per round for 547 damage. Boss died before Last Stand had run out on my Monk.

That is some crazy HP.

 

[Yosharian]

Actually now that I think about it, Wind Ward and Air Barrier are pretty powerful and probably better than Metal Curse on balance

 

[Yosharian]

Spoiler

 

[Haplo]

Actually now that I think about it, Wind Ward and Air Barrier are pretty powerful and probably better than Metal Curse on balance

Metal Curse is great, though. Also Stone also gives Acid enchant - which is great for EB.
...I mean, used to be

 

[Yosharian]

It is great, if it even works, it's on my to-do list to test it properly next time I boot up the game, but it's not good action economy for a character who also wants to make full attacks.

Furthermore, Hampering Hex is still a decent replacement option and access comes free with Battle

Pretty sure I'm going with Wind

 

[Haplo]

The hiddent trump of Hampering is that supposedly Chant works with it.

Edit: Anyway, its crazy that a supposed Hex master - witch, only has access to somewhat inferior debuff Hexes - that are blocked by mind effect immunity

 

[Yosharian]

The hidden trump of Hampering is that supposedly Chant works with it.

Wait what

 

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

This is exactly accurate. Glad you've come around.

power-gaming choices that just work

Things that work for voltronning are different than things that work for a full team once you take into account opportunity costs. With multiple attackers you can forgo some of the marginal damage-only stuff that's necessary if you've only got one attacker for AoE/AB/versatility/survivability/staying power/whatever else that's stopping you from smoothly getting through fights. Looks like I'm going to have to demonstrate doing that on high difficulties again if people are going to believe it.