Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Grunker]

9. Why is 16 BAB optimal? BAB only matters at its highest, it doesn’t give me extra attacks unless I use a weapon. EDIT: no iteratives, no. That’s why using a weapon is probably more optimal… but less fun.

10. Only way to gain Rage Powers, which do seem better than +3AC, or?

 

[Yosharian]

Oh I see, you don't get iteratives at all. Hmm.

I'm not convinced that the rage powers you selected are more important than your AC. I think you are going to get hit, a LOT. Have you calculated your AC?

 

[Yosharian]

Have you considered being mounted?

 

[Grunker]

Oh I see, you don't get iteratives at all. Hmm.

I'm not convinced that the rage powers you selected are more important than your AC. I think you are going to get hit, a LOT. Have you calculated your AC?

Haven’t calculated my AC, no. I was kind of operating from the assumption that it would be very hard for me to get meaningful AC. But even if we’re looking at AC, simply swapping Reckless for Lethal gives me almost as much AC as choosing Bloodline power over rage powers.

 

[Grunker]

Have you considered being mounted?

Nope. It’s true that there’s not a lot of reason I couldn’t be with the build.

Regarding Wolf-Scarred: yes, I know, but it’s the easiest way to get a bite, it’s literally just 1 level. Like I write in the OP, I could pick another curse and then pick the mythic ability that gives you a curse-free curse, and pick wolf scarred with that, but it delays the bite

 

[Yosharian]

So you're comfortable with 10% of your spells failing all the time? Man you must be one patient motherfucker

 

[Grunker]

So you're comfortable with 10% of your spells failing all the time? Man you must be one patient motherfucker

Not really. In fact I had originally written it off entirely. But Bloodrager casts less than Warpriest, so I thought I might be OK. And again, I do have the option of changing it and nixing the downside with the Mythic that gives you a curse without a downside.

edit: beneficial curse is the name

 

[Yosharian]

Part of the problem with Bloodrager is that the whole spellcasting aspects are kind of meh. You get access to Mirror Image I suppose, but since Mind Blank doesn't protect that spell against True Seeing or similar effects, it will not be a very reliable spell for protecting you from damage, and Displacement/Greater Invisibility can be cast by a friendly BFT. You ARE using a friendly BFT in your party, right?

If you only want Oracle to get access to Wolf-Scarred Curse, then I have an alternative recommendation for you - consider dipping Stigmatized Witch. This gets you access to Mage Armor and curses, and gives you a Hex which means you can obtain Iceplant & a Lizard familiar, and use Icy Protector also, for a total of +5 Natural Armor bonus. Then you can use Archmage Armor and get +14 Armor bonus at MR10.

Speaking of Archmage Armor, you are planning on using that, right? Don't tell me you are one of these 'I'm using armor because role-playing' players. If you are planning on being a stubborn armor-using ass, then at least install TTT and get the mythic that improves it.

 

[Grunker]

BFT looks kindda cheesey tbh.

Bloodrager gives me a bite and easy DD access for another Bite. The Spells are just a cherry, they’re not why I’m there.

edit: well, it gives me one more bite than a regularb barb. They both get a bite and a Gore besiddes that

 

[Yosharian]

BFT looks kindda cheesey tbh.

Bloodrager gives me a bite and easy DD access for another Bite. The Spells are just a cherry, they’re not why I’m there.

edit: well, it gives me one more bite than a regularb barb. They both get a bite and a Gore besiddes that

Have you considered using a friendly Skald to grant some of these rage powers, such as Animal Fury?

You could use this to get claws, too.

 

[Grunker]

BFT looks kindda cheesey tbh.

Bloodrager gives me a bite and easy DD access for another Bite. The Spells are just a cherry, they’re not why I’m there.

edit: well, it gives me one more bite than a regularb barb. They both get a bite and a Gore besiddes that

Have you considered using a friendly Skald to grant some of these rage powers, such as Animal Fury?

I have. It's an enticing but also bit cheesey option. Dunno what I'd replace Bloodrager with if I did.

 

[Yosharian]

You won't use a BFT or a Skald because it's too 'cheesy', but you'll dip Vivisectionist 2 to get Mutagen and Feral Mutagen =D

 

[Grunker]

You won't use a BFT or a Skald because it's too 'cheesy', but you'll dip Vivisectionist 2 to get Mutagen and Feral Mutagen =D

That's cheesey? I'm dipping for the bite, not for the "usual Vivi reasons," and as I understand it, Vivi isn't even all that good in WotR?

Sadly, Vivi is the only Alchemist archetype with remotely relevant abilities for a melee character, and even then, it's basically just +1d6 sneak attack :/

 

[Grunker]

Basically, I'm paying 2 class levels for the priviledge of most of my bites, and with Bloodrager its much more than that. So I don't see how the Vivi dip is cheesey - the character is still pretty suboptimal compared to what it could be, and that's what's the actual issue; whether something is absurdly broken/exploitative and will end up trivializing the game for me. Skald and Brown-Fur kindda seem like they are?

I'm very wary of that happening since I was bored out of my skull with much of Kingmaker due to content becoming trivial on Unfair.

That said I'm not writing off Skald completely. I'm just unsure how powerful it's going to be (it looks extremely powerful) and what to replace Bloodrager with

 

[Yosharian]

Vivi dip is considered one of the most cheesy things you can do

 

[Grunker]

Vivi dip is considered one of the most cheesy things you can do

Sure, but aren't you skirting around my point? I need the bite - I'm not dipping for the general mutagen or the sneak attack - and besides that, my character is pretty suboptimal as it is.

Maybe cheesey is the wrong word: I care about whether the character/party does fun shit and isn't broken or exploitative. Stacking natural attacks seems like a fun but not broken thing.

OTOH, Skald and Brown Fur look like they go over the top.

 

[Grunker]

And again, I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about; I don't read guides and I haven't played WotR - so feel free to correct me on these assumptions!

 

[Yosharian]

Seems like you're being quite arbitrary in what you'll allow and not allow

 

[Grunker]

Seems like you're being quite arbitrary in what you'll allow and not allow

I appreciate your input, but you're not really answering my questions:

1. Does Vivi make my character go over the top?
2. Am I right in assuming Brown Fur and Skald do?

If the answer to 1 is no and 2 is yes, I don't understand why my logic is arbitrary. If the answers are something else, just say so - because then my logic is flawed (like I'm saying, I have nothing but general feel and Kingmaker-experience to draw on here, that's why I'm asking)

 

[Yosharian]

Lmao how can I answer that question?

 

[Grunker]

Presumably by having more experience with WotR than I do. I dunno dude you seem kind of agitated, all I'm saying is I don't want an OP character, and I don't think the Vivi dip gives me that on this particular character, while I'm wary that Skald/Brown Fur may be just that, because on paper they seem insane. I think it's kind of a simple point tbh and not very arbitrary at all. It may be wrong though, I have no way to know

 

[Haplo]

You won't use a BFT or a Skald because it's too 'cheesy', but you'll dip Vivisectionist 2 to get Mutagen and Feral Mutagen =D

... and also want to play Unfair.

I'm flabbergasted.

 

[Grunker]

You won't use a BFT or a Skald because it's too 'cheesy', but you'll dip Vivisectionist 2 to get Mutagen and Feral Mutagen =D

... and also want to play Unfair.

I'm flabbergasted.

Man you niggas are stubborn. I played on Unfair in Kingmaker with a gimped party and still stomped the shit out of the game. How is it then unreasonable to be wary of things that to my inexperienced eyes look crazy OP, when I'm looking to avoid steamrolling the game?

If you tell me: "Grunker, this isn't Kingmaker, you well get stomped on Unfair if you don't do XYZ" then I trust you and make changes. But then just say so.

Just telling me I'm an idiot because I don't want an OP character when my only previous experience with Owlfinder is sleeping my way through the last half of the game on Unfair because it was too easy even with a gimped party doesn't help me much.

 

[Haplo]

Vivi is not exploitative or "over the top" IMO.

...but neither is using the strong classes, the Devs offer to, us you mentioned, that seem to mostly work as intended.

It's nothing like exploiting Expanded Arsenal, old Elemental Barrage, 5x stacking Cha to AC or stacking polymorphs...

 

[Grunker]

Vivi is not exploitative or "over the top" IMO.

...but neither is using the strong classes, the Devs offer to, us you mentioned, that seem to mostly work as intended.

It's nothing like exploiting Expanded Arsenal, old Elemental Barrage, 5x stacking Cha to AC or stacking polymorphs...

I'm not arguing from an ethical standpoint. I'm arguing from an "I don't want to steamroll the game"-standpoint. Obviously I can't know what's too strong and what's not since I haven't played the game.