Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[ArchAngel]

Some people were saying that Brown Fur feels like a burden on DLC3 because you can't rest all the time. Truth be told I'm already a no-rester masochist by choice and my MCs were always full casters. What you want is a maximum bang for your buck, which the BFT has. It's a decent DC caster via conjuration, meaning it can alter entire fights by themselves. And their buffs are long lasting force multipliers for everybody. They can also do something that potions/scrolls can't, which is give you better buffs. As long as the rest of the party are decent to great martial fighters the BFT is just an amazing choice for a 6th wheel.

I was wondering about making a BFT PC for the main campaign. Healer background for maximum use of int for skills. Maybe Azata or Trickster. Full support focus. Maybe give everybody Brutality Incarnate and turn them into 24h enhanced Dragons.

I was thinking to go with theme and still do Transmutation debuff along with Transmutation buffs. Slow works on everyone and Polymorph can also be good as it works on many enemies and SR is not a problem later on. And unlike Conjuration these spells don't block your own melee

 

[Delterius]

Some people were saying that Brown Fur feels like a burden on DLC3 because you can't rest all the time. Truth be told I'm already a no-rester masochist by choice and my MCs were always full casters. What you want is a maximum bang for your buck, which the BFT has. It's a decent DC caster via conjuration, meaning it can alter entire fights by themselves. And their buffs are long lasting force multipliers for everybody. They can also do something that potions/scrolls can't, which is give you better buffs. As long as the rest of the party are decent to great martial fighters the BFT is just an amazing choice for a 6th wheel.

I was wondering about making a BFT PC for the main campaign. Healer background for maximum use of int for skills. Maybe Azata or Trickster. Full support focus. Maybe give everybody Brutality Incarnate and turn them into 24h enhanced Dragons.

I was thinking to go with theme and still do Transmutation debuff along with Transmutation buffs. Slow works on everyone and Polymorph can also be good as it works on many enemies and SR is not a problem later on. And unlike Conjuration these spells don't block your own melee

I think Conjuration is a good early game CC school, when your shitty crossbow is still kinda useful. My plan is to transition to Rays or Nukes by mid game and, if Trickster, to melee'ing myself on late game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Some people were saying that Brown Fur feels like a burden on DLC3 because you can't rest all the time. Truth be told I'm already a no-rester masochist by choice and my MCs were always full casters. What you want is a maximum bang for your buck, which the BFT has. It's a decent DC caster via conjuration, meaning it can alter entire fights by themselves. And their buffs are long lasting force multipliers for everybody. They can also do something that potions/scrolls can't, which is give you better buffs. As long as the rest of the party are decent to great martial fighters the BFT is just an amazing choice for a 6th wheel.

I was wondering about making a BFT PC for the main campaign. Healer background for maximum use of int for skills. Maybe Azata or Trickster. Full support focus. Maybe give everybody Brutality Incarnate and turn them into 24h enhanced Dragons.

I was thinking to go with theme and still do Transmutation debuff along with Transmutation buffs. Slow works on everyone and Polymorph can also be good as it works on many enemies and SR is not a problem later on. And unlike Conjuration these spells don't block your own melee

I think Conjuration is a good early game CC school, when your shitty crossbow is still kinda useful. My plan is to transition to Rays or Nukes by mid game and, if Trickster, to melee'ing myself on late game.

Melee with Brown Fur Transmuter?!

 

[ArchAngel]

BTW, does anyone know does one get Archmage Armor mythic bonus if person itself does not have that spell?
UMD casting Mage Armor scrolls on itself? Mage Armor Potions don't work anymore if I remember well.

 

[Delterius]

Some people were saying that Brown Fur feels like a burden on DLC3 because you can't rest all the time. Truth be told I'm already a no-rester masochist by choice and my MCs were always full casters. What you want is a maximum bang for your buck, which the BFT has. It's a decent DC caster via conjuration, meaning it can alter entire fights by themselves. And their buffs are long lasting force multipliers for everybody. They can also do something that potions/scrolls can't, which is give you better buffs. As long as the rest of the party are decent to great martial fighters the BFT is just an amazing choice for a 6th wheel.

I was wondering about making a BFT PC for the main campaign. Healer background for maximum use of int for skills. Maybe Azata or Trickster. Full support focus. Maybe give everybody Brutality Incarnate and turn them into 24h enhanced Dragons.

I was thinking to go with theme and still do Transmutation debuff along with Transmutation buffs. Slow works on everyone and Polymorph can also be good as it works on many enemies and SR is not a problem later on. And unlike Conjuration these spells don't block your own melee

I think Conjuration is a good early game CC school, when your shitty crossbow is still kinda useful. My plan is to transition to Rays or Nukes by mid game and, if Trickster, to melee'ing myself on late game.

Melee with Brown Fur Transmuter?!

BAB tricks (maybe)

 

[Grunker]

For some reason I forgot to correct Camellia's class. She's a Crusader, not an Ecclesitheurge. Updated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HoPSWHknDb7Mp6qUdjdxfs1K7I1rKulVPtrBg3RKUXQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Grunker]

My level 1 character was just crit for 54 by a Small Earth Elemental welcome to Unfair

 

[ArchAngel]

Eh, I finally took my 3rd rage character into party and decided to take Powerful stance instead of Reckless one (I don't need more attack bonus and AC penalty could be nasty with later enemies) since Instinctual Warrior has no bonus damage while Raging. But now during combat it is getting no bonus damage from it
Description says it should be unnamed bonus so it is either not stacking with Good Hope or does not work at all.. I have reported it to devs.. I will probably need to respec into Reckless or maybe go full defense and take Guarded.

 

[Desiderius]

Shieldbasher (Wenduag): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17JmUOooxLHscaDfGfuXMbXi0QZgYa4gPxBojQPnPYeg/edit?usp=sharing
I mean, it builds itself. Only decision really was "which class", and since I've never played Slayer even that was pretty easily decided when Daidre put it forward. It's the only one out of the four melees without Shatter Defenses, but hard to see where to fit it in.

Just noticed that you're doing a MAD version of the Slayer. You could choose to take the Ranger's Weapon and Shield style feats to ignore the prerequisites needed for TWF, ITWF, GTWF, and Shield Master (I think you can take it as early as level 6 with Ranger/Slayer) while allowing you to keep her as a STR focused character if you want to.

I thought about it, but Combat Tricks do almost the same thing (except for the huge Dex cost of course). It's still less efficient and you pay a heavy MAD cost, but the upside is that full Slayer progression gives me advanced talents which are pretty fun.

Slayer gets Combat Style Feats as Slayer Talents. Somebody is confused here. You can get both (Weapon and Shield Combat Style and Advanced Slayer Talents) just leveling up a Slayer.

What's MAD?

There is nothing in this game that builds itself - that's why it's important not to waste mental energy chasing memes and splashes. Several headscratchers in this one.

 

[Desiderius]

For Rage stackers: the Rage spell also stacks since it's a Morale STR bonus. Bizarrely it can be brewed as a potion and even given Encouraging Metamagic (via the Mod) to give +3 STR/CON to round off odd stats.

 

[Grunker]

Slayer gets Combat Style Feats as Slayer Talents. Somebody is confused here.

I don't remember as much touch AC targeting going on late game as there is in Kingmaker. Most of the end-game enemies are big demons that spam area effect spells or hit very hard against armored AC. I also can't remember if the Mythic just adds the base shield AC to touch, or the enhancement bonus too (I think it's just base AC but I'm not 100%).

Most of the things that do target touch AC through the game are level-draining undead so Death Ward nullifies them. Shadows are the other big touch AC threat, but they're not that common either.

OK after looking at it your suggestion is absolutely fantastic. Earlier everything, and VERY earlier Shield Master. New Wenduag:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17JmUOooxLHscaDfGfuXMbXi0QZgYa4gPxBojQPnPYeg/edit#gid=0

 

[Desiderius]

OK after looking at it your suggestion is absolutely fantastic. Earlier everything, and VERY earlier Shield Master. New Wenduag:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17JmUOooxLHscaDfGfuXMbXi0QZgYa4gPxBojQPnPYeg/edit#gid=0

Yes, that's what I was looking at. It... didn't build itself. Mostly fine, but not great. I'll have to load up a save and look at it but TWF Style is wasted with high DEX. I think you need Weapon and Shield Style to get the lvl 6 Shield Master.

Dumping stats generally isn't worth it, especially INT/WIS on Slayer. Slayer is half Rogue so you're there for some Skills - Trapfinding is a reason to bring a Slayer. 5 CHR is fine but I'd want at least 10 INT/12 WIS which doesn't hurt you that much on the STR/DEX. 4 Creation Points for half of an AB/AC is definitely no bueno.

And Power Attack (and especially Power Attack Mythic) is more for big 2-Handers. Your bonus is substantially less on Slayer which has other ways to up it's damage. Likewise Ever Ready. For Unfair you'd want Last Stand/Defensive Study ASAP and I like Inspiring Leader on a non-caster.

 

[Grunker]

Yes, that's what I was looking at. It... didn't build itself. Mostly fine, but not great. I'll have to load up a save and look at it but TWF Style is wasted with high DEX. I think you need Weapon and Shield Style to get the lvl 6 Shield Master.

Yes - that's where I'm getting it from. I tested it.

Dumping stats generally isn't worth it, especially INT/WIS on Slayer. Slayer is half Rogue so you're there for some Skills - Trapfinding is a reason to bring a Slayer.

I have these things from elsewhere. I don't need them.

And Power Attack (and especially Power Attack Mythic) is more for big 2-Handers. Your bonus is substantially less on Slayer which has other ways to up it's damage. Likewise Ever Ready. For Unfair you'd want Last Stand/Defensive Study ASAP and I like Inspiring Leader on a non-caster.

This I will consider

 

[Delterius]

Desiderius is there any way to make the Trickery dispel from a decent range or does it have to be melee?

 

[Desiderius]

Yes - that's where I'm getting it from. I tested it.

I... just tested it myself. It doesn't. You cannot mix and match Combat styles. If you want Shield Master at lvl 6 that's Weapon and Shield Combat Style only and you have to take Shield Bash at lvl 2 (or 4 on Slayer) to unlock second lvl of Combat Style. Which is fine since you don't have a caster stat you can start with 16 DEX then use equipment for DEX to get additional Bashes later.

I have these things from elsewhere. I don't need them.

Mongrel Slayer sets up perfectly for Stealth, Perception, and Trickery at 10 INT and gets scaling Perception with Trapfinding. You want multiple sources of high Perception (with a scaling source on at least one character) anyway. High Perception/Stealth makes her a great scout (and she'll be tanky too with Shield and Defensive Study), and letting her handle Trickery goes perfectly with that (and frees up resources on another character) since she'll be in position to sneak up to Disarm Traps (throw on a Vanish for particularly dangerous situations. You can even take WIS to Intimidate Background to open fights with Dazzling from Stealth.

This is why respec mods are bad. People start fucking with stuff before they even know half of what they can do already.

 

[Tsubutai]

BTW, does anyone know does one get Archmage Armor mythic bonus if person itself does not have that spell?
UMD casting Mage Armor scrolls on itself? Mage Armor Potions don't work anymore if I remember well.

Both potions and scrolls still work with archmage armor. Enduring/Greater Enduring no longer applies to spells cast from scrolls, but that's not an issue with mage armor since its duration is hours/level anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius is there any way to make the Trickery dispel from a decent range or does it have to be melee?

TTT makes it Close on Improved/Greater IIRC. Not Vanilla. It wasn't that big of a deal: move + Dispel, then you're in position for Full Attack.

Ranged Trickster not so much I guess.

 

[Delterius]

Desiderius is there any way to make the Trickery dispel from a decent range or does it have to be melee?

TTT makes it Close on Improved/Greater IIRC. Not Vanilla. It wasn't that big of a deal: move + Dispel, then you're in position for Full Attack.

Ranged Trickster not so much I guess.

Thanks. Does Destructive Dispel work with it? That could solve my ranged conundrum.

 

[Grunker]

Yes - that's where I'm getting it from. I tested it.

I... just tested it myself. It doesn't. You cannot mix and match Combat styles.

What? TWF is part of Weapon and Shield

 

[Yosharian]

Eh, I finally took my 3rd rage character into party and decided to take Powerful stance instead of Reckless one (I don't need more attack bonus and AC penalty could be nasty with later enemies) since Instinctual Warrior has no bonus damage while Raging. But now during combat it is getting no bonus damage from it
Description says it should be unnamed bonus so it is either not stacking with Good Hope or does not work at all.. I have reported it to devs.. I will probably need to respec into Reckless or maybe go full defense and take Guarded.

Powerful Stance?

 

[ferratilis]

Guys, I want to play as a Human Crusader Cleric with Animal Domain (Dog), going for Angel path, but there are some things I can't really decide on. First is whether to go sword and board or two handed, if I go sword and board I need a lot of feats and some DEX to make it viable, is it worth it? I was thinking about pumping strength while keeping WIS at 16 originally. The second dilemma is whether it's worth going with heavy armor or stick to medium/mithral? What I'm focusing on is staying within the theme of a sacred crusader that buffs himself and the party (I'm not a healer, leaving CHA at 10 so selective channel is already abandoned) and taking crusader all the way.

I've heard some advice that it's better to take Fighter 1/Cleric 19 but Crusader seems good enough tbh, the only difficulty is using the feats you're given well. Abundant Casting can also make up for one less spell slot per level, so Crusader should be enough for Core difficulty, especially with those juicy Angel spells. I'm also debating whether to take Acolyte to use WIS for persuasion, or pickpocket for initiative. Any advice is welcome.

 

[Grunker]

Guys, I want to play as a Human Crusader Cleric with Animal Domain (Dog), going for Angel path, but there are some things I can't really decide on. First is whether to go sword and board or two handed, if I go sword and board I need a lot of feats and some DEX to make it viable, is it worth it? I was thinking about pumping strength while keeping WIS at 16 originally. The second dilemma is whether it's worth going with heavy armor or stick to medium/mithral? What I'm focusing on is staying within the theme of a sacred crusader that buffs himself and the party (I'm not a healer, leaving CHA at 10 so selective channel is already abandoned) and taking crusader all the way.

I've heard some advice that it's better to take Fighter 1/Cleric 19 but Crusader seems good enough tbh, the only difficulty is using the feats you're given well. Abundant Casting can also make up for one less spell slot per level, so Crusader should be enough for Core difficulty, especially with those juicy Angel spells. I'm also debating whether to take Acolyte to use WIS for persuasion, or pickpocket for initiative. Any advice is welcome.

My Camellia is a Crusader, you can check that (linked in this thread). I'd change a few things for MC though.

 

[perfectslumbers]

I'm playing a hideous laughter focused Azata. Level 6 and my best hideous laughter hit 5 enemies, not bad for a level 2 spell :D

 

[Desiderius]

Yes - that's where I'm getting it from. I tested it.

I... just tested it myself. It doesn't. You cannot mix and match Combat styles.

What? TWF is part of Weapon and Shield

There are five different Combat Styles: one of them is called Two-Weapon Fighting, another is called Weapon and Shield. The Two-Weapon Fighting Feat (with no prereqs) is one of the options at the first Tier of both the Two-Weapon Fighting Combat Style and the Weapon and Shield Combat Style. Typically I start the game with Two-Weapon Fighting Feat, then get Shield Bash with the first Weapon and Shield Combat Style Feat since Shield Bash doesn't do anything without Two-Weapon Fighting.

You'd want Two-Weapon Style for a low DEX build to get around prereqs but Slayer doesn't need that since it can get enough DEX from starting stats and equipment. Harrim Cleric1/Ranger for instance used TWF Style to equip and use his Urgrosh in P:K.

 

[Grunker]

Yes - that's where I'm getting it from. I tested it.

I... just tested it myself. It doesn't. You cannot mix and match Combat styles.

What? TWF is part of Weapon and Shield

There are five different Combat Styles: one of them is called Two-Weapon Fighting, another is called Weapon and Shield. The Two-Weapon Fighting Feat (with no prereqs) is one of the options at the first Tier of both the Two-Weapon Fighting Combat Style and the Weapon and Shield Combat Style. Typically I start the game with Two-Weapon Fighting Feat, then get Shield Bash with the first Weapon and Shield Combat Style Feat since Shield Bash doesn't do anything without Two-Weapon Fighting.

You'd want Two-Weapon Style for a low DEX build to get around prereqs but Slayer doesn't need that since it can get enough DEX from starting stats and equipment. Harrim Cleric1/Ranger for instance used TWF Style to equip and use his Urgrosh in P:K.

So? What's your point? We're not talking about a low DEX build. You said I couldn't match Combat Styles - well I haven't. I get all the listed feats from Weapon and Shield style. Maybe this is the root of the misunderstanding?:

I'll have to load up a save and look at it but TWF Style is wasted with high DEX. I think you need Weapon and Shield Style to get the lvl 6 Shield Master.

It's not "Pick Two-Weapon Fighting Style" it's "Get Two-Weapon Fighting Feat from Weapon and Shield Style"