Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Guys, I want to play as a Human Crusader Cleric with Animal Domain (Dog), going for Angel path, but there are some things I can't really decide on. First is whether to go sword and board or two handed, if I go sword and board I need a lot of feats and some DEX to make it viable, is it worth it? I was thinking about pumping strength while keeping WIS at 16 originally. The second dilemma is whether it's worth going with heavy armor or stick to medium/mithral? What I'm focusing on is staying within the theme of a sacred crusader that buffs himself and the party (I'm not a healer, leaving CHA at 10 so selective channel is already abandoned) and taking crusader all the way.

I've heard some advice that it's better to take Fighter 1/Cleric 19 but Crusader seems good enough tbh, the only difficulty is using the feats you're given well. Abundant Casting can also make up for one less spell slot per level, so Crusader should be enough for Core difficulty, especially with those juicy Angel spells. I'm also debating whether to take Acolyte to use WIS for persuasion, or pickpocket for initiative. Any advice is welcome.

The main benefit of the class is fast spell progression, which the dip immediately kills, so your intuition is right there. Generally play with the strength of each class if you're not soloing. Likewise you've only got one Domain so blowing it on a pet isn't great either.

You've got five other characters. Use them.

Crusader is the only Cleric that *can* really Shield Bash, the only question is whether it's worth it. Probably not really on Angel. I think you'll be happier using a reach weapon on another Cleric archetype and just blasting stuff with Angel spells but if you want to be a Crusader for RP purpose it does make a very solid Shield Basher or Two-Hander thanks to all the bonus Feats. In the latter case you can use the bonus Feats for Heavy/Martial, in the former for Shield Bash/Weapon Focus. Abundant (all three) fits great whatever you're doing since Cleric has great self-buffs.

Cleric will eventually get AoE auto-intimidate (from Frightful Aspect) anyway and you've got plenty of action economy already with casting/attacking/and a good Domain (or two) so I never end up using WIS to Intimidate.

You can get Scroll Scribing (you use Lore - Religion) from a Background or make Perception a class skill.

And if you're playing a class with Channeling you are a Healer. It doesn't cost many CPs to get CHR to 12 at minimum then will eventually get boosted by items/buffs. 14 only costs 3 more CPs than 12. No need for Selective, you can just top up with it.

 

[Desiderius]

View attachment 28946

It's not "Pick Two-Weapon Fighting Style" it's "Get Two-Weapon Fighting Feat from Weapon and Shield Style"

Ok, then get the order right. Shield Bash won't do anything until you've got TWF.

 

[Grunker]

View attachment 28946

It's not "Pick Two-Weapon Fighting Style" it's "Get Two-Weapon Fighting Feat from Weapon and Shield Style"

Ok, then get the order right. Shield Bash won't do anything until you've got TWF.

It will. It'll just be shit (was, rather, I'm level 2 now, so too late to correct the mistake unfortunately)

 

[HoboForEternity]

Lol i killed

ch.2 side boss

zacharias by greasing the floor. He has low reflex save bonus, and literal slippery floor killed a lich once he's on the floor and cannot cast spell it's only a matter of dispelling his buffs then whacking him out of his dry bones

 

[Acrux]

I had the same problem, are you using any mods?

I ran into this and turning off Damage Breakdowns (the mod) seemed to fix it, it looks like the base game has that functionality now anyway. Speaking of which, is it a known bug that Dragonheir Scion's Dazzling Display is still a full round action or should I test if that's being caused by a mod?

Thanks, I had removed Damage Breakdowns before the update, since I knew it had been added to EE. It looks like some of the files must have remained active, though. I did some manual configuration, and it's working well now. Thanks!

 

[Yosharian]

Hmm.

 

[IllusiveBrian]

I'm looking at Tailwind of Ironclad Magic, which gives you extra damage on spells based on the amount of arcane spell failure chance you had casting it, does anything let you reroll and take best result on ASF? I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to reduce the chance of failure without reducing the ASF number.

 

[Desiderius]

I had the same problem, are you using any mods?

I ran into this and turning off Damage Breakdowns (the mod) seemed to fix it, it looks like the base game has that functionality now anyway. Speaking of which, is it a known bug that Dragonheir Scion's Dazzling Display is still a full round action or should I test if that's being caused by a mod?

Thanks, I had removed Damage Breakdowns before the update, since I knew it had been added to EE. It looks like some of the files must have remained active, though. I did some manual configuration, and it's working well now. Thanks!

I had problems with Damage Breakdown before EE. UMM couldn’t uninstall it and thought it was still there after i deleted it. Had to do clean re-install of whole game.

 

[Haplo]

Guys, I want to play as a Human Crusader Cleric with Animal Domain (Dog), going for Angel path, but there are some things I can't really decide on. First is whether to go sword and board or two handed, if I go sword and board I need a lot of feats and some DEX to make it viable, is it worth it? I was thinking about pumping strength while keeping WIS at 16 originally.

If you're gonna ride that dog, then two handed IMO. Investing in shields never makes much sense when mounted IMO. And even less on an angel, who can cast Shield buff.

 

[Desiderius]

Guys, I want to play as a Human Crusader Cleric with Animal Domain (Dog), going for Angel path, but there are some things I can't really decide on. First is whether to go sword and board or two handed, if I go sword and board I need a lot of feats and some DEX to make it viable, is it worth it? I was thinking about pumping strength while keeping WIS at 16 originally.

If you're gonna ride that dog, then two handed IMO. Investing in shields never makes much sense when mounted IMO. And even less on an angel, who can cast Shield buff.

You’re going to have a hard time fitting in the Feats or Mobility to take advantage of Mounted, and Domain pet is late so burns yet another Feat. You need those Feats for things like Evo Focus and Outflank/Shatter.

Pet is bad fit for Cleric. You want to be close enough for Archon’s Aura/Prayer but not frontline since you lack defensive spells and abilities. Reach/Size effects put you in a good spot. Crusader sacrifices a Domain for some of that defense but you’re still not a great tank (and even Mounted characters will get some attacks). It can afford wasting a Domain on pet even less.

Save your pets/mounts for classes that can get the most out of them or need them to overcome some disability (like Daeran). Take advantage of the unique abilities of the class you’re playing - on Cleric that’s Domains.

 

[Stoned Ape]

You want to be close enough for Archon’s Aura/Prayer but not frontline since you lack defensive spells and abilities.

Surely that depends entirely upon which mythic path you take? Plenty of them have access to excellent defensive buffs as part of their spell list.

 

[Desiderius]

You want to be close enough for Archon’s Aura/Prayer but not frontline since you lack defensive spells and abilities.

Surely that depends entirely upon which mythic path you take? Plenty of them have access to excellent defensive buffs as part of their spell list.

Not really. And he’s already said he’s going Angel. The biggest difference between 3/4 classes with fast spell progression and those with medium is that the latter comes with things like Mutagens that make them better in combat while the default for the former is casting sometimes combined with decent fighting on easy fights or after one cast to avoid enemy attention.

You’re better off choosing a Path that accentuates that than trying to be a jack-of-all-trades and not very good at anything (unless you’re soloing). Crusader trades a Domain and some spell slots to be better at combat but the biggest thing you bring to the table is still fast progression (for things like Frightful and Angelic, Greater at lvl 15 that medium classes never get). Of course with Merged Angel you get them earlier than that.

 

[Haplo]

Some fun in Blackwater

 

[Delterius]

i think elemental engine is funky. burnout is applying its bonuses at any level of burn

 

[Desiderius]

Does Destructive Dispel work with it? That could solve my ranged conundrum.

AFAIK, Destructive Dispel is one of those niche abilities that LannTheStupid doesn't think we deserve. Maybe they got around to implementing it at some point?

Ok, Grunker, I put together a Slayer build without any of the Skill stuff, but I think that misses half the strength of the class (it's a Ranger/Rogue hybrid and both of those classes set up well to cover multiple skills, and by cover I mean good enough to pass checks on high difficulties, which isn't easy). I'd only ignore skills if I had Aru in the group (her class gets scaling bonuses to Stealth/Trickery/Perception) and then I'd probably keep Wend Fighter instead of Slayer. Likewise if you want a Slayer without skills Vanguard is a better fit for what you're doing even if you have to wait a bit on the Combat Style stuff. Greybor is such a good fit with Shield Bash because the first good Bashing shields show up about the same time he does, so you're not missing a ton if you hold off a little on those.

Unskilled base Slayer Build:

TWF, Shield Bash (Combat Style Talent), Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Uncanny Dodge (Talent), Outflank, Shield Mastery (Combat Style Talent), Dazzling, Shatter Defenses (need by lvl 8 for Maugla) (Combat Trick Talent), Improved TWF, Slippery Mind (Talent), Improved Crit Scimitar, Improved Uncanny Dodge (Talent), Shake it Off, Opportunist (Talent), Improved Initiative, Bashing Finish (Combat Style Talent), Greater TWF, not sure since I'm usually out by now since I took skills stuff, if you care about Perception you'll want Hare Familiar in there somewhere too.

Last Stand (obligatory for Unfair), Mythic TWF, Defensive Study, Ever Ready (co-ordinate with Opportunist), Unstoppable, Mythic Initiative, Inspirational Leader, (usually have a Mythic Skill Focus here, Leading Strike is great on RTwP)

Other options:

I really like how well the Slayer covers the Scout role of Perception/Stealth/Trickery. Not quite as well as Aru's class but with Trapfinding Talent as well as a Rogue does but Rogue doesn't get Menacing Combat Style that lets you add in Intimidate (with WIS-to-Persuasion background) to open with Dazzling from Stealth. The value of Menacing is that it lets you get Shatter without Weapon Focus so you can use best available Martial Weapon. If you're set on Shield Bashing/Scimitar instead then Vanguard is another good option because it gives you Uncanny Dodge for free (making up for one of the two missing Talents on the archetype) along with Tactician (Shake it Off for the free TW Feat) and Vanguard's Bond, which works well with Defensive Study (and eventually hits +2 AB/AC).

My sense is that Dispelling Strike isn't going to be very good because anything that comes pre-buffed has a really high CL, but I could be mistaken there.

Other nice options include: Fast Stealth (you'll have trouble giving it up if you ever try it), Canny Observer for very high early Perception, Weakening Wound to turn off DR, and Skill Mastery Talents (not sure if those are in vanilla)/Mythic Skill focus. TTT/Dark Codex give you more good Talents than can fit into one build.

Arcane Enforcer is also worth a look if you don't need skill Talents since it has Move Action teleport and the Nat Armor/Plant thing, though I'd hate to lose Improved Quarry that's very late.

 

[Kjaska]

I picked this up during the sale as an impulse buy and I gotta say, I'm having a blast right now. I'm not very far into the game - just only did the Wardstone cleanserino - but so far I feel like this beats both PoE and PoE2 in every quantifiable category.

 

[Desiderius]

I picked this up during the sale as an impulse buy and I gotta say, I'm having a blast right now. I'm not very far into the game - just only did the Wardstone cleanserino - but so far I feel like this beats both PoE and PoE2 in every quantifiable category.

It's pretty great. I think Vek will get it there single-handedly eventually. They've shown some willingness to incorporate good mods so who knows they might end up fully developing it despite themselves.

 

[AwesomeButton]

And heeeeeeere's Camellia: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HoPSWHknDb7Mp6qUdjdxfs1K7I1rKulVPtrBg3RKUXQ/edit#gid=0

To make her a crusader, you retrain her when you get to the Inn, right? Hence it doesn't matter what I choose for her at level 2?

 

[Grunker]

And heeeeeeere's Camellia: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HoPSWHknDb7Mp6qUdjdxfs1K7I1rKulVPtrBg3RKUXQ/edit#gid=0

To make her a crusader, you retrain her when you get to the Inn, right? Hence it doesn't matter what I choose for her at level 2?

I use the respec mod. Vanilla respec can’t reset to level 0.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Some fun in Blackwater

Stop hitting yourself, the build. I made similar with a more vanilla build, just a two handed Freebooter with some Fighter levels, Vital Striking the hard targets while thrash were killing themselves.
It's amazing that "most" of them Trickster feats are "working" from the start.

 

[Daidre]

Trapfinding Talent on Arushalae

It is only bonus to Perception in the unmodded game, not to Trickery. Honestly, big modders are so intent on buffing Rangers with Better Bond/Favored Enemy Coverage/Skills, that at some point I started to suspect that most of them are just fanboying over their precious whiny waifu and trying to create a justification for having her in the party 24/7.

 

[AwesomeButton]

And heeeeeeere's Camellia: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HoPSWHknDb7Mp6qUdjdxfs1K7I1rKulVPtrBg3RKUXQ/edit#gid=0

To make her a crusader, you retrain her when you get to the Inn, right? Hence it doesn't matter what I choose for her at level 2?

I use the respec mod. Vanilla respec can’t reset to level 0.

Meh. Ok, not judging, nvm

 

[Haplo]

Desiderius is there any way to make the Trickery dispel from a decent range or does it have to be melee?

TTT makes it Close on Improved/Greater IIRC. Not Vanilla. It wasn't that big of a deal: move + Dispel, then you're in position for Full Attack.

Ranged Trickster not so much I guess.

Thanks. Does Destructive Dispel work with it? That could solve my ranged conundrum.

It absolutely should. It works with all dispel effects, AFAIK.
Not sure about the DCs though. They were kinda shitty on my Aeon inquisitor. But some people with solid mental stats were reporting very nice or even deadly DCs.
I'm guessing the DCs would not be based on yout Trickery skill, but rather Greater Dispel spell level + some mental stat OR Mythic Rank.

On the other hand, AFAIK Destructive Dispel triggers PER EFFECT DISPELLED, so even if DCs are shitty, it could still force to roll many "1s".

 

[Cyberarmy]

Does Destructive Dispel still stuns our own guys if you try to dispel debuffs from them? I had to respec Sosiel just for that...

 

[Yosharian]

I picked this up during the sale as an impulse buy and I gotta say, I'm having a blast right now. I'm not very far into the game - just only did the Wardstone cleanserino - but so far I feel like this beats both PoE and PoE2 in every quantifiable category.

Not a very high bar, is it