Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Delterius]

a) it used to be a maze but then half the city collapsed into it and now its more like a corridor

Always a good idea as an entertainment producer to set up something epic and then deliver something way more boring but with a plausible excuse - I'm sure that won't get any comments!

the studio did not deliver? you've fallen into my trap. behold

d) the real maze was the new free camera all along

 

[Grunker]

a) it used to be a maze but then half the city collapsed into it and now its more like a corridor

Always a good idea as an entertainment producer to set up something epic and then deliver something way more boring but with a plausible excuse - I'm sure that won't get any comments!

the studio did not deliver? you've fallen into my trap. behold

d) the real maze was the new free camera all along

verdammt, du hast mich

 

[Desiderius]

You still get Sicken even on made save with Destructive so it would be a nice effect if CLs weren't so high on the Dispel itself. Very difficult to reliably Dispel anything without Mythic Path helping.

It's not too bad now that you can get +3 CL from the DLC robe - any level 20 caster can reach a CL of 26 on greater dispel, which is enough to remove Areelu's buffs with a few casts.

As for raising DC, it's pretty easy if you abuse Expanded Arsenal; if you don't take that option, you need to pick schools and spell types that are well-supported by gear. There's quite a lot of stuff to support Enchantment and Illusion and a decent amount of stuff for certain kinds of evocations, but Conjuration, Transmutation, Abjuration, and Necromancy get kind of stiffed.

Most of the game takes place before level 20 lol.

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

 

[Desiderius]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Tinman > reloadfest

 

[Yosharian]

I couldn't give a toss about achievements. Nothing is going to make me turn on double incoming damage. That shit is obnoxious af

 

[Grunker]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Soseil now comes with Heavy Armor Proficiency instead of Medium Armor Focus!!!!

Enhanced Edition is totally worth it for that alone!

 

[Tsubutai]

Most of the game takes place before level 20 lol.

You can get the +6 CL from feats/gear, which is the important thing for dispelling reliably, at the start of Act 3.

 

[Desiderius]

I couldn't give a toss about achievements. Nothing is going to make me turn on double incoming damage. That shit is obnoxious af

Game has a lot of tools to deal with that (Last Stand obv, but tons of temporary HPs, AoE AC, Parry stopping nat 20s, crit immunity abilities, etc - Protective Luck is a little bit of a trap but sometimes necessary) but people don’t seem to be using those instead of just kiting/voltronning/rocket tag/savescum/one-weird-trickism.

I guess if that’s your thing but tinman with using everything at your disposal and kicking up difficulty as you gain mastery is something the game is well-suited for and something I find more gratifying. If I were younger that would be Unfair with double damage starting around lvl ten I think. As it is skills are slipping and don’t have the time I once did, so Core+/Hard is fine challenge.

 

[Desiderius]

Most of the game takes place before level 20 lol.

You can get the +6 CL from feats/gear, which is the important thing for dispelling reliably, at the start of Act 3.

Not sure how easy Islands are at lvl ten? Will be nice to have before Fane no doubt.

Soseil now comes with Heavy Armor Proficiency instead of Medium Armor Focus!!!!

Enhanced Edition is totally worth it for that alone!

I think I’ve seen Sosiel get attacked like five times max ever. And I like Comradery on him. Should have given him Evo Focus or Spell Pen. He’s not tanking even with Heavy.

 

[Grunker]

But the *~feels~*, Desi!

 

[Desiderius]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

Whole game’s going to be a massive slog with double damage and no AC. Owlcat uses bosses to prepare you for coming attractions.

 

[Desiderius]

But the *~feels~*, Desi!

Feels bad man.

P:K Unfair is somewhere between Core and Hard in Wrath. They already took care of you. Game’s too long to be reloading all the time. Defensive skills/skill boosting abilities also add challenge (due to the opportunity cost of not loading up on every conceivable offensive ability) while reducing variance.

 

[Grunker]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

Whole game’s going to be a massive slog with double damage and no AC. Owlcat uses bosses to prepare you for coming attractions.

Kingmaker was much, much, MUCH harder in the early game than later. Is that not true here? Even if the redt of WotR is har thank Kingmaker, I assumed difficulty would still drop. And you seem to confirm it as you turn up difficulty later yourself?

If I ackknowledge I can’t beat Unfair I have no qualms about turning difficulty down

 

[Grunker]

But the *~feels~*, Desi!

Feels bad man.

P:K Unfair is somewhere between Core and Hard in Wrath. They already took care of you. Game’s too long to be reloading all the time. Defensive skills/skill boosting abilities also add challenge (due to the opportunity cost of not loading up on every conceivable offensive ability) while reducing variance.

The feels comment was in reference to Stones Apes post

 

[Desiderius]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

Whole game’s going to be a massive slog with double damage and no AC. Owlcat uses bosses to prepare you for coming attractions.

Kingmaker was much, much, MUCH harder in the early game than later. Is that not true here? Even if the redt of WotR is har thank Kingmaker, I assumed difficulty would still drop. And you seem to confirm it as you turn up difficulty later yourself?

If I ackknowledge I can’t beat Unfair I have no qualms about turning difficulty down

You *can* if you reload enough. But no if you’re running around naked Wrath isn’t getting easier any time soon.

It’s only easier in the sense that you get your abilities. The abilities that let me eventually turn up the difficulty are largely defensive. Does anybody else use Burst of Glory or Inspire Greatness or Inspiring Command/HK Aura on Reg? Parry?

Obv other people are playing Unfair so they’re creating an unbeatable Voltron or Sirocco kiting or nuking everything or whatever so maybe you can rocket tag by then too, but its going to be a very long slog to get there.

Wrath Unfair gives (much) bigger bonuses than P:K and mobs have more nasty shot they can do.

 

[Tsubutai]

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

If you can get past shield maze you'll be fine, the only other fight that is similarly difficult for its level is the gargoyle cave in act 2.

 

[ArchAngel]

Most of the game takes place before level 20 lol.

You can get the +6 CL from feats/gear, which is the important thing for dispelling reliably, at the start of Act 3.

Not sure how easy Islands are at lvl ten? Will be nice to have before Fane no doubt.

Soseil now comes with Heavy Armor Proficiency instead of Medium Armor Focus!!!!

Enhanced Edition is totally worth it for that alone!

I think I’ve seen Sosiel get attacked like five times max ever. And I like Comradery on him. Should have given him Evo Focus or Spell Pen. He’s not tanking even with Heavy.

He was secondary tank in my party. Glaive + Enlarge Person and he attacks from 2nd row and blocks access to squishes in the back.

 

[ArchAngel]

he hits on 2+

Maybe Unfair isn't really for you rn.

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

Whole game’s going to be a massive slog with double damage and no AC. Owlcat uses bosses to prepare you for coming attractions.

Kingmaker was much, much, MUCH harder in the early game than later. Is that not true here? Even if the redt of WotR is har thank Kingmaker, I assumed difficulty would still drop. And you seem to confirm it as you turn up difficulty later yourself?

If I ackknowledge I can’t beat Unfair I have no qualms about turning difficulty down

WotR difficulty drops is way less than in Kingmaker. Also it goes up a lot in certain fights and at end can be hard for some builds and there is no Blind Fight as a easy way to remove difficulty like you can in Kingmaker with House enemies.

 

[Desiderius]

Dunno what's with the emoji, because: maybe it's not, and what would be wrong with that..? If I legitimately couldn't beat Unfair, it would only make me happy. I'd much rather have challenge be too high than too low like with Kingmaker. It's not gonna make go copy someone else's megabuild with 80AC, though. Gonna have to deal with it myself or turn down the diff.

But let's see. I'm pretty close.

If you can get past shield maze you'll be fine, the only other fight that is similarly difficult for its level is the gargoyle cave in act 2.

Not with no AC he won’t. A generation of minds is a terrible thing to waste on one-weird-trickism. Cranking up the difficulty all the way then finding the few abilities that aren’t garbage to own it (and the newbs) is something you had to do during the phonegame era. Here’s Rosewater trying to rationalize that design philosophy:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-2002-01-28

He later figured out this was crap and MtG doesn’t make intentionally bad cards anymore. PF ruleset is designed with the opposite philosophy. It’s not Soyer-style balanse but it does give you a wealth of effective tools to attack the game without gimmicks and endless reloads if you look for them. Also facilitates great replayability, though ypur options are of course more limited on Unfair, especially if like me your playskill isn’t world-class.

 

[LannTheStupid]

 

[Desiderius]

(Gargs have Smite Good so bring non-Good characters. This is why they give you more than five companions.)

 

[Yosharian]

I found House quite easy tbh, dropping Weird nukes on the Wild Hunt packs goes a long way

 

[Rieser]

Yeah no, fuck Unfair. At the end of the day I'm here to have fun, not work, and the latter is very much what it feels like when you're forced to cheese and/or follow various metas. Core/Hard is challenging enough while leaving room for having fun with builds etc.

 

[Tsubutai]

(Gargs have Smite Good so bring non-Good characters. This is why they give you more than five companions.)

The smites are pretty much the easiest thing to manage in the gargoyle cave on unfair - as you say, you just bring non-good characters and make your MC start neutral or evil even if you plan for them to eventually become good. The difficulty comes from the sheer number of challenging enemies and the resulting length of the fight, the fact that the fight occurs in a quite confined area and enemies literally drop in from on high in waves with little opportunity to control their positioning or what they aggress, the boneshaker spam from the clerics (which can one-shot even quite tanky characters on a failed save with unfair double damage), and the fact that the gargoyles are immune or highly resistant to a lot of the crowd control options you have available at the level you reach it.