Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Primal gets double Enlarge at lvl 8. That’s… early. Cleric has to spend fifth level slot to get that effect at rnd/lvl. Other classes have to wait for Legendary/Frightful. Don’t waste it. Haplo that shit up.

 

[Stoned Ape]

When did they fix the loremaster spell from other classes ability? I've not tried using one for ages and they didn't work then but it all seems to be in place now.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Owlcat's patching workflow remains absolutely atrocious, and I believe it is their policy and not an oversight.

It is probably because they're having their main workforce focused on the new Warhammer title. Sad, but just the reality of game development.

Well, if their latest AMA is to be believed, it is not "probably" but, rather, "highly likely" if not "certain".

They have enough resources to run 2 teams now - according to their words. One for Rogue Trader, another for WotR Season Pass 2. Despite what many of the locals are saying, Owlcat Games are quite good at patching bugs and prioritizing.

However, they chronically break the game with patches. Sometimes they reintroduce old bugs. They miss important changes from the release notes. They even had to make the last hour hotfix for the console release (!).

Which means that the workflow for regression testing and deployment is not there. It is not interesting, not glamorous, not creative - it just has to be created and enforced. It seems they don't like to spend resources on such a menial task.

 

[ArchAngel]

Anyone knows if any animal except Horses become bigger when under Animal Growth spell? I fucked up by making my druid dwarf assuming he is small hoping I can do Enlarge Person and become normal and still mount a large size Smilodon. Eh. I can respec to take Smilodon, Elephant, or two types of Dinosaurs but I don't know if Animal Growth works any better with them. I would now prefer to stay dwarf as getting +2 to wis and con is good for this character.

Horses are the only pet which grows larger under a +1 Size spell like Enlarge Person, Animal Growth or Frightful Aspect

Other pets only grow larger when affected by Legendary Proportions

Your options are pick an actual Small race (not Dwarf, they are Medium) or pick Kitsune which can ignore size increases

The thing is that I am playing Primal Druid that gets much improved Enlarge Person and I would love to use that. I might need to switch him to halfling, gnome or kitsune.. thing is that dwarf gets +wis and con and -cha, basically almost perfect for a druid. and bonus to saves vs spells is always useful. and slower speed does not matter much when he is mounted.

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Mounts are still more powerful. Free +4 attack from always active flank+outflank. Worth more than extra +2 Strength and Con. And first charge giving me free x2 damage.

 

[Average Manatee]

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Walking is for plebs though.

 

[Desiderius]

When did they fix the loremaster spell from other classes ability? I've not tried using one for ages and they didn't work then but it all seems to be in place now.

Was mostly WAI at least six mnths ago. Not quite worth it for Nenio I don’t think (I’ve tried it with and without EK) but opens up interesting MC options, especially for the INT-based Legend stuff.

 

[Desiderius]

Anyone knows if any animal except Horses become bigger when under Animal Growth spell? I fucked up by making my druid dwarf assuming he is small hoping I can do Enlarge Person and become normal and still mount a large size Smilodon. Eh. I can respec to take Smilodon, Elephant, or two types of Dinosaurs but I don't know if Animal Growth works any better with them. I would now prefer to stay dwarf as getting +2 to wis and con is good for this character.

Horses are the only pet which grows larger under a +1 Size spell like Enlarge Person, Animal Growth or Frightful Aspect

Other pets only grow larger when affected by Legendary Proportions

Your options are pick an actual Small race (not Dwarf, they are Medium) or pick Kitsune which can ignore size increases

The thing is that I am playing Primal Druid that gets much improved Enlarge Person and I would love to use that. I might need to switch him to halfling, gnome or kitsune.. thing is that dwarf gets +wis and con and -cha, basically almost perfect for a druid. and bonus to saves vs spells is always useful. and slower speed does not matter much when he is mounted.

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Mounts are still more powerful. Free +4 attack from always active flank+outflank. Worth more than extra +2 Strength and Con.

Dude, you Reach half the battlefield. Turning on Outflank will not be an issue. Yet again I’m forgetting features and away from computer. Does bigger Enlarge not get bigger dice? Even if not people are blowing 7 CPs for 2 STR so it’s not nothing. Spontaneous Enlarge means you can keep it up easier and earlier than other classes too. Early Enlarge uses slots that want to be free for other things usually. Then at lvl 8 the bigger Enlarge for first level slot is great value.

Druid usually has defense issues and this solves them by keeping you away from front.

Too bad Polymorph (including Aspects) supresses Size bonuses in TTT. Does the Enlarge work with Wild Shape in vanilla?

 

[Desiderius]

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Walking is for plebs though.

Druids *are* plebs. Got their asses kicked all the way to the Hebrides.

 

[Desiderius]

Owlcat's patching workflow remains absolutely atrocious, and I believe it is their policy and not an oversight.

It is probably because they're having their main workforce focused on the new Warhammer title. Sad, but just the reality of game development.

Well, if their latest AMA is to be believed, it is not "probably" but, rather, "highly likely" if not "certain".

They have enough resources to run 2 teams now - according to their words. One for Rogue Trader, another for WotR Season Pass 2. Despite what many of the locals are saying, Owlcat Games are quite good at patching bugs and prioritizing.

However, they chronically break the game with patches. Sometimes they reintroduce old bugs. They miss important changes from the release notes. They even had to make the last hour hotfix for the console release (!).

Which means that the workflow for regression testing and deployment is not there. It is not interesting, not glamorous, not creative - it just has to be created and enforced. It seems they don't like to spend resources on such a menial task.

The other problem is that the B team (Boggart team) is nowhere near as talented as A team. Tbf few are.

 

[Average Manatee]

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Walking is for plebs though.

Druids *are* plebs. Got their asses kicked all the way to the Hebrides.

Still better than being a double pleb.

Dude, you Reach half the battlefield. Turning on Outflank will not be an issue. Yet again I’m forgetting features and away from computer. Does bigger Enlarge not get bigger dice? Even if not people are blowing 7 CPs for 2 STR so it’s not nothing. Spontaneous Enlarge means you can keep it up easier and earlier than other classes too. Early Enlarge uses slots that want to be free for other things usually. Then at lvl 8 the bigger Enlarge for first level slot is great value.

Druid usually has defense issues and this solves them by keeping you away from front.

Too bad Polymorph (including Aspects) supresses Size bonuses in TTT. Does the Enlarge work with Wild Shape in vanilla?

He's probably interested in the automatic outflank on your first turn (assuming you use turn based). Enlarge does give better weapon dice but that really depends on your build whether its important for damage or you've already got significant other damage sources.

Have to say though, Primal Druid looks kind of meme. At level 8-16 you're getting that nice +2 bonus but at level 16 you're just casting legendary proportions at a lower level, and it actually hurts you if you'd want to be able to mount a pet but can only do so with 1 size increase, not two.

 

[Delterius]

in honor of this thread i'll make a party with a cavalier, an arcane rider, a nomad, a sylvan sorcerer, a cleric of erastil, and a kineticist with religion 2 and yes half the party uses mounts as nothing more than a layer of hitpoins/ac

lets call it The Wild Hunt

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh for fuck sake just because you *can* mount in Wrath doesn’t mean you have to. Take a small pet for early tank then slay with your bigass MC using Reach.

Walking is for plebs though.

Druids *are* plebs. Got their asses kicked all the way to the Hebrides.

Still better than being a double pleb.

Dude, you Reach half the battlefield. Turning on Outflank will not be an issue. Yet again I’m forgetting features and away from computer. Does bigger Enlarge not get bigger dice? Even if not people are blowing 7 CPs for 2 STR so it’s not nothing. Spontaneous Enlarge means you can keep it up easier and earlier than other classes too. Early Enlarge uses slots that want to be free for other things usually. Then at lvl 8 the bigger Enlarge for first level slot is great value.

Druid usually has defense issues and this solves them by keeping you away from front.

Too bad Polymorph (including Aspects) supresses Size bonuses in TTT. Does the Enlarge work with Wild Shape in vanilla?

He's probably interested in the automatic outflank on your first turn (assuming you use turn based). Enlarge does give better weapon dice but that really depends on your build whether its important for damage or you've already got significant other damage sources.

Have to say though, Primal Druid looks kind of meme. At level 8-16 you're getting that nice +2 bonus but at level 16 you're just casting legendary proportions at a lower level, and it actually hurts you if you'd want to be able to mount a pet but can only do so with 1 size increase, not two.

I only took this druid for the Tailwind bonus. From what I have seen best druid is Elemental Rampager. When polymorphed into Large Smilodon and raging he does very good damage. I never got him high enough to have someone cast Legendary Proportions spell on him while he is in Smilodon form, that might be even more awesome. And if for example take Azata, you can be permanently Hasted with him as well (but probably some other mythic combinations are better).

 

[Kjaska]

Aaaah, I literally did the Darrazand fight 2 hours before the patch. It ruined the fuck out of the epic siege encounter.

 

[Desiderius]

I only took this druid for the Tailwind bonus. From what I have seen best druid is Elemental Rampager. When polymorphed into Large Smilodon and raging he does very good damage. I never got him high enough to have someone cast Legendary Proportions spell on him while he is in Smilodon form, that might be even more awesome. And if for example take Azata, you can be permanently Hasted with him as well (but probably some other mythic combinations are better).

That class looks like a lot of fun, and the Elemental abilities get some nice perks at late levels that are hidden until you select the Element (like a Sorc Bloodline or HK/Cav Order).

 

[mediocrepoet]

Yes, it sux. And of course yet again you forgot the biggest reason it sux because you retards have never run anything (including a family) in your lives so have yet to encounter the concept of opportunity cost. It’s never too late! My sons were born when I was 47.

Weird flex. Sons born when you were 47 and playing computer games 20 hours a day... wife needed some companionship because you were always on the computer either playing game or getting into shitflinging contests on random websites... you found out, she took the kids and left... Good times! Now you don't have to be interrupted during your completely reasonable computer time for a responsible man of your age.

Spoiler

I assume everything I said is BS, but I couldn't help myself.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, it sux. And of course yet again you forgot the biggest reason it sux because you retards have never run anything (including a family) in your lives so have yet to encounter the concept of opportunity cost. It’s never too late! My sons were born when I was 47.

Weird flex. Sons born when you were 47 and playing computer games 20 hours a day... wife needed some companionship because you were always on the computer either playing game or getting into shitflinging contests on random websites... you found out, she took the kids and left... Good times! Now you don't have to be interrupted during your completely reasonable computer time for a responsible man of your age.

Spoiler

I assume everything I said is BS, but I couldn't help myself.

I'm not playing 20 yrs per day now. It's why I suck so bad I had to start the DLC on Normal and can't remember half of my good advice so Daidre has to correct me. I was never playing that much but when kids were little could play some while they were sleeping or whatever. Now we're out at the trails or violin or gymnastics etc. Wife's cool she works a lot and I'm her editor and personal assistant and I'm good at it.

Druid mostly sux mounted too, for many of the same reasons as Cleric, but at least you don't have to burn a Domain. In main campaign there just aren't that many items to support more than two pets, and the really good ones just go on one. Make the most of it.

The deal with Primal is you're only having to spend a first level slot instead of a seventh level + Dragon Bone (of course they wussed out on the limited Bones thing they originally implemented but Legendary still isn't free). It's not game-breaking but it's good enough to be fun and it's solves some of the problems that can make Druids feel kind of shitty. I like Druid spellbook utility (Longstrider, Faerie Fire, full Barkskins, Magic Fang, Stone Call + Feather Step, Mass, Soothing Mud, Slowing Mud, Echo/Life Bubble at lvl 4, Growth, Vinetrap, Cave Fangs, good midgame summons, Changestaff, Doom, Conj bypasses SR) and the 1st level pet for tanking but the action econ is always a challenge. This gives solid option that keeps you out of harm's way mostly and Angel Merge gets +4 Longspear early ch3. Eventually you get Frightful and Seamantle and you're good.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Is it a general rule that every class has an archetype that's better than the main class? Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

 

[Tsubutai]

I'd say that the base class is arguably strongest for paladin, cleric, and oracle.

 

[Desiderius]

Is it a general rule that every class has an archetype that's better than the main class? Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

Fighter obviously, but it's not a one-dimensional game. Better at what? All depends what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[Grunker]

Is it a general rule that every class has an archetype that's better than the main class? Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

It’s not always a case of ”strictly better”, it can be contextual

 

[Yosharian]

Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

Skald

 

[Yosharian]

I'd say that the base class is arguably strongest for paladin, cleric, and oracle.

Ecclesitheurge says hi

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Is it a general rule that every class has an archetype that's better than the main class? Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

Barbarian

 

[Daidre]

Is it a general rule that every class has an archetype that's better than the main class? Is there a class that's better to take without an archetape, from a mechanics point of view?

Paladin - most of the archetypes lose Mark of Justice and that's his best ability, Skald - this one is more questionable, but if you want your Skald primarily for singing Rage songs then vanilla is the best.
Most of the Slayer archetypes are lackluster and I went for default one often enough in rogue-like (Deliverer is dangerously close to being strictly better vanilla, but pays for it with feats and alignment restrictions).

 

[Haplo]

Anyone knows if any animal except Horses become bigger when under Animal Growth spell? I fucked up by making my druid dwarf assuming he is small hoping I can do Enlarge Person and become normal and still mount a large size Smilodon. Eh. I can respec to take Smilodon, Elephant, or two types of Dinosaurs but I don't know if Animal Growth works any better with them. I would now prefer to stay dwarf as getting +2 to wis and con is good for this character.

I think TableTop Tweaks fixes this and all animals grow with Animal Growth there (haven't tested it myself).