Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Yosharian]

I'm not being edgy, I'm saying straight facts. I gave some simple advice to a newbie - go for mounted combat on your Inquisitor, it's easy and powerful. And this stupid cunt comes at me with "BUT WHY? WHAT IF HE TAKES A LEOPARD AND ISN'T A GNOME?"

absolute fucking moron

 

[Desiderius]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

Sosiel's dog and Daeran's wolf want to have a word with you.

Well, you will not answer, because you will be laying on the ground.

 

[Yosharian]

Zaoris's Beauty

This headband grants its wearer +6 enhancement bonuses to Charisma and Wisdom ability scores. In addition, the wearer and all their allies in a 10 feet area gain the effects of the Shielded Caster, Allied Spellcaster and Shield Wall feats.

Act 5, Relic Decree (Zaoris's Pin)

Anyone actually tested the new distances on these and Shake It Off? Are they like, worthless now or what

 

[LannTheStupid]

I know that this tabletopper will not read me, but from 2.0.2 onward Shake It Off works.

However, it is not reflected as the separate line in the log file. The total value of the save is different from the sum of its written summands, and the difference is equal to what should be Shake It Off. Also, for this feat to work the characters should be really adjacent. To the extent that my character had +4 Will saves being between Seelah's horse and Woljif, but Seelah had only +2 - because, apparently, only the horse counted for her.

 

[Desiderius]

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

Sosiel's dog and Daeran's wolf want to have a word with you.

Well, you will not answer, because you will be laying on the ground.

Daeran’s Wolf is named Daidre and is doing good work because he’s full pet, cancels Daeran’s Curse, and doesn’t cost a full fucking Domain. Even gives him Barkskin and Cave Fangs. Daeran’s Racial Heritage even gives him +2 Mobility (along with his high DEX).

Putting Sos on a Mount is flat-out stupid. The whole point of Cleric Reach is getting as Large as possible and he can even give himself advantage to double his crits on those big dice. He’s already the most Feat and Mythic starved companion.

 

[Desiderius]

I know that this tabletopper will not read me, but from 2.0.2 onward Shake It Off works.

However, it is not reflected as the separate line in the log file. The total value of the save is different from the sum of its written summands, and the difference is equal to what should be Shake It Off. Also, for this feat to work the characters should be really adjacent. To the extent that my character had +4 Will saves being between Seelah's horse and Woljif, but Seelah had only +2 - because, apparently, only the horse counted for her.

Lol your head is so far up your ass with this Tabletop delusion. The recent change to Shake it Off range was to *revert* to Tabletop rules vs P:K where it had a larger radius. It can still be ok but it’s been substantially nerfed. If circles have to overlap (zero range instead of adjacent, worse than tabletop) then it’s going to be hard to get much value.

Regular Snap Shot has this bug so rarely triggers even when Mounted.

 

[Average Manatee]

Judging by the feature richness of the photomode and the QoL changes made for the EE, Owlcat Games have everything they need. It's just their priorities do not coincide with yours. And, partially, with mine.

I expect photomode is something that the marketing department demanded. It's something that some idiot probably thinks will increase sales, so it got a lot of effort put into it.

 

[Tenebris]

Judging by the feature richness of the photomode and the QoL changes made for the EE, Owlcat Games have everything they need. It's just their priorities do not coincide with yours. And, partially, with mine.

I expect photomode is something that the marketing department demanded. It's something that some idiot probably thinks will increase sales, so it got a lot of effort put into it.

I recall someone from Owlcat mentioning that photomode was inspired by one of their team members having her hard drive full of screenshots.

 

[santino27]

Judging by the feature richness of the photomode and the QoL changes made for the EE, Owlcat Games have everything they need. It's just their priorities do not coincide with yours. And, partially, with mine.

I expect photomode is something that the marketing department demanded. It's something that some idiot probably thinks will increase sales, so it got a lot of effort put into it.

I recall someone from Owlcat mentioning that photomode was inspired by one of their team members having her hard drive full of screenshots.

Probably the character writer who wants everyone to be gay.

 

[Desiderius]

Finally got to Demon and looks like main benefit is the Move Action Teleport which doesn’t really go with what else I’m doing.

Would have gone well with Dragonheir Scion’s Standard Dazzling but seems like better fit for a Cleaving/Vital Striking Two-Hander or something like Armored Battlemage which wants to Spellstrike with Touch Spells.

Currently will have Pounce plus Dragonform (from Nenio) at Polymorph, Greater then eventually Gold Dragon. Pounce + Move Teleport is a nonbo. Super-rage is ok (it turns on Reckless Stance/Ferocity) but not really needed.

Do Demon Forms count as Polymorphs?

 

[Haplo]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

No.
Animal Domain and Impossible Domain + Domain Zealot have elevated inquisitors into some of the best hybrid classes in the game. Awesome at fighting AND support. And even capable of decent single-target CC if you want to exploit this angle.

Made Warpriests pretty much obsolete. And nearly clerics too, though those still have better healing and level 9 spells. Not to mention druids and shamans (except for angel merging).

 

[Yosharian]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

No.
Animal Domain and Impossible Domain + Domain Zealot have elevated inquisitors into some of the best hybrid classes in the game. Awesome at fighting AND support. And even capable of decent single-target CC if you want to exploit this angle.

Made Warpriests pretty much obsolete. And nearly clerics too, though those still have better healing and level 9 spells. Not to mention druids and shamans (except for angel merging).

Yeah but it was for a Sacred Huntsmaster not a base Inquisitor, sorry I should have specified that.

So he had a pet anyway, I merely stated that he should try using mounted combat with it. And I got downvoted. Lol.

It wasn't even like I said YOU MUST DO MOUNTED COMBAT I was just suggesting it.

 

[Haplo]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

No.
Animal Domain and Impossible Domain + Domain Zealot have elevated inquisitors into some of the best hybrid classes in the game. Awesome at fighting AND support. And even capable of decent single-target CC if you want to exploit this angle.

Made Warpriests pretty much obsolete. And nearly clerics too, though those still have better healing and level 9 spells. Not to mention druids and shamans (except for angel merging).

Yeah but it was for a Sacred Huntsmaster not a base Inquisitor, sorry I should have specified that.

So he had a pet anyway, I merely stated that he should try using mounted combat with it. And I got downvoted. Lol.

It wasn't even like I said YOU MUST DO MOUNTED COMBAT I was just suggesting it.

That opens some cool sheningans, actually. If you want a mount, but not too many pet class levels, a Sacred Huntsmaster with Animal Domain couts his levels nearly twice (-3) for AC level purposes. So can have a level 20 pet with 10 Sacred Huntsmaster levels and Boon (but not higher pet level then the total owner level).

 

[Daidre]

I do not even get what this "leave mounts to the mount-focused classes" even means.

Any class can learn feat line for Mounted Combat and can get Mobility high enough for them to work properly. And now, when animal has it's own feats (vs how it was in Kingmaker) and can acquire Teamwork Feats naturally, it kills off half of value from Hunter/Sacred Huntmaster teamwork feat sharing.

There is couple of classes that push Mounted combat tiny bit father with unique features like Cavaliers, Mad Dog barbarians or Urban Hunters, but basic stat line for pets is ridiculous - enough AC to tank up to Unfair, ridiculous STR and free full attack for rider after movement. In fact it so ridiculous, that it is hard to find melee build that would be more effective on foot vs doing the same thing mounted if you look on it from the pure optimization standpoint.

In fact you could take "pet focused" class like Basic Hunter/Sacred Huntmaster/Druid and compare Animal Domain Cleric/Inquisitor at levels 7+ and difference in pet performance would be almost nonexistent (couple of feats) and difference in character performance will be literally 1 Feat spent on fixing -4 Pet level penalty.

And even size increase spells could work with Legendary Proportions. It is even easier with TT Tweaks where enlarge spells are fixed for pets and Undersized Mount feat is added. It also adds full animal companion available to everyone for the price of 3 feats, and after playing both mounted and not mounted dual-wielder pure Slayer Graybor I can say for sure - he is pure shit on foot in comparison.

 

[Yosharian]

But Daidre what if he takes Leopard and isn't a Gnome???!

 

[Yosharian]

Btw daily reminder that Kitsune in human form can benefit from all size bonus spells without actually increasing his size

 

[Haplo]

Btw daily reminder that Kitsune in human form can benefit from all size bonus spells without actually increasing his size

Looses Bite and Vulpine Pounce however... which might be a poor trade for some builds (including mounted builds).

 

[Yosharian]

Btw daily reminder that Kitsune in human form can benefit from all size bonus spells without actually increasing his size

Looses Bite and Vulpine Pounce however... which might be a poor trade for some builds (including mounted builds).

Yeah, for the three people on Reddit who aren't running a Skald

 

[Desiderius]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

No.
Animal Domain and Impossible Domain + Domain Zealot have elevated inquisitors into some of the best hybrid classes in the game. Awesome at fighting AND support. And even capable of decent single-target CC if you want to exploit this angle.

Made Warpriests pretty much obsolete. And nearly clerics too, though those still have better healing and level 9 spells. Not to mention druids and shamans (except for angel merging).

Yeah but it was for a Sacred Huntsmaster not a base Inquisitor, sorry I should have specified that.

So he had a pet anyway, I merely stated that he should try using mounted combat with it. And I got downvoted. Lol.

It wasn't even like I said YOU MUST DO MOUNTED COMBAT I was just suggesting it.

My bad. Mounted is solid on SH since it makes your Hunter’s Tactics work better.

 

[Desiderius]

He's right.

Play a mounted class for mounted. Animal Domain sux.

No.
Animal Domain and Impossible Domain + Domain Zealot have elevated inquisitors into some of the best hybrid classes in the game. Awesome at fighting AND support. And even capable of decent single-target CC if you want to exploit this angle.

Made Warpriests pretty much obsolete. And nearly clerics too, though those still have better healing and level 9 spells. Not to mention druids and shamans (except for angel merging).

Animal Domain is just bad outside of voltronning/virtual soloing. You’ve got five other characters. At least one of them will be better suited for a mount and you already get Bismuth for free.

If we’re talking DLC just use Sacred Huntmaster or Divine Hound.

But Daidre what if he takes Leopard and isn't a Gnome???!

Then he can tank the first five levels of Unfair?

basic stat line for pets is ridiculous

I like to avoid broken shit on principle because it makes for boring play, which now of course you'll jump on to say aha told you they were better but broken isn't always even better. If it's narrow and takes you away from what a class/character does uniquely well it really isn't.

Tank Seelah (using Divine Weapon Bond along with Smite to overcome Defensive Maluses* and the Dodge + Shield Focus she comes with) plays a lot more effective role for the rest of my team this run than Mounted Seelah did wasting all her defensive Feats and abilities and sucking up items and resources on her Mount. Yeah Mounted she did more damage but I've got three other characters for that and I've been surprised how much she's still doing. As with Leopard pet having a very hard target is a uniquely valuable asset on higher difficulties.

Obv DLC is different but the general principle of designing to a character's strengths and role in the party is a sound one and one that gets lost in the solo-focused rush to the broke.

* - yes Daidre I'm using the mod that gives "trading" Feats like Combat Expertise for free. It's decent on her but hardly essential. I am considering a Fighter/Monk splash tho heh. Main malus is from +3 Tower you can buy after Garrison and Fighting Defensively with 3 ranks in Mobility which is often off.

 

[Haplo]

basic stat line for pets is ridiculous

I like to avoid broken shit on principle because it makes for boring play, which now of course you'll jump on to say aha told you they were better but broken isn't always even better. If it's narrow and takes you away from what a class/character does uniquely well it really isn't.

Tank Seelah (using Divine Weapon Bond along with Smite to overcome Defensive Maluses and the Dodge + Shield Focus she comes with) plays a lot more effective role for the rest of my team this run than Mounted Seelah did wasting all her defensive Feats and abilities and sucking up items and resources on her Mount. Yeah Mounted she did more damage but I've got three other characters for that and I've been surprised how much she's still doing. As with Leopard pet having a very hard target is a uniquely valuable asset on higher difficulties.

Obv DLC is different but the general principle of designing to a character's strengths and role in the party is a sound one and one that gets lost in the solo-focused rush to the broke.

Thing is, if you pick a solid pet and play in a party, you don't really need to invest many feats in mounts to benefit (except Boon on some classes). My Seelah does well without them, although I do plan to take up to Mounted Skirmisher eventually.
You usually invest a lot more feats in personal defences on a non-reach footman.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's true, almost everything that can potentially have a mount is better with a mount. Even if you put no other investment than potentially boon companion (even lacking mobility and mounted combat), you've got yourself a HP sponge with inflated AC that will tank 90% of your attacks for you so your actual characters can glass cannon like a boss, take advantage of greater reach and better speed, and get a ton of extra damage per round of out of the pet itself. You could probably play at around Daring difficulties without even understanding what AC is or how to stack it due to how Mounts basically render the whole mechanic irrelevant for your characters (not entirely, but your HP can tank the difference easily enough). It's a crutch but its also too fun to play without.

And not taking animal domain (or impossible domain animal) is practically foolish. A pet that is THAT cheap is just silly to pass up.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

But Daidre what if he takes Leopard and isn't a Gnome???!

Well then he'll just have to get a bigger saddle.

 

[Desiderius]

Mythics aren't cheap lol - they're the scarcest resource in the game! God save us from endgame theorycrafting.

free full attack for rider after movement

Yeah, ok, here this is just poor implementation. I'm on TTT now so moot. I highly recommend using it. Again though attacks are already my most abundant resource. I'm more concerned about landing the gorillion I already have and not dying.

You usually invest a lot more feats in personal defences on a non-reach footman.

Then use Reach lol. You're the one who taught us how to go big. I'm just using that. Conversely if I've got a character already set up to be a hard target I don't want to waste that. There are buffs that stack on vanilla that let you go big to some extent Mounted (eventually) but those are hoops I don't have to jump through (or pay the cost to jump through them) and don't work on TTT anyway.

In fact you could take "pet focused" class like Basic Hunter/Sacred Huntmaster/Druid and compare Animal Domain Cleric/Inquisitor at levels 7+ and difference in pet performance would be almost nonexistent (couple of feats) and difference in character performance will be literally 1 Feat spent on fixing -4 Pet level penalty.

A couple feats/Domain are exactly what those classes *don't* have to spare unless you're endgame theorycrafting. You're sacrificing the basic functioning of the class - what you'd choose to play that class for in the first place - to cram something on to them that you don't need if you're using the rest of your party.